J VS2 or I SI1 or other ??????

[Ellen]

Date: 9/16/2007 3:15:10 PM
Author: bedenny
Ok, after a little more thought, I decided to drop my stone budget to $5000.
I found this one at WF, and they said it was eye clean.
What do you think?
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-358380.htm

I think it looks great!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/16/2007 3:27:08 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 9/16/2007 3:15:10 PM
Author: bedenny
Ok, after a little more thought, I decided to drop my stone budget to $5000.
I found this one at WF, and they said it was eye clean.
What do you think?
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-358380.htm

I think it looks great!

Ditto!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/14/2007 10:56:23 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 9/14/2007 10:46:27 PM
Author: heraanderson
I see no inclusions on my si2. front, side or otherwise. And I''ve heard you can see inclusions from the side on Vs quality stones as the clarity is graded from the top.

Yes, there are certainly going to be some excellent exceptions out there. but it don''t think it seems like it would be necessary for him to go that route, and I think there is a bit of risk involved in doing at any rate..

Not really. Any of the reputable vendors he''s considering are straight shooters, and all are more than willing to eyeball any stone and confirm if it''s eyeclean or not. I don''t see how that equates to taking unnecessary risk.

If he were drop-shipping a stone with no one inspecting it first, then I''d agree with you. BUT....with solid vendors, there''s absolutely no reason not to consider SI2s....especially since MANY of them can be eyeclean AND they would help achieve his GF''s priority (size) within his budget.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/16/2007 3:20:11 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
I think it looks really nice. From the image I would say that the clouds is probably the main grade setter, though I certainly have no experience grading diamonds so I could be way off base and while it looks clearly visible under magnification I would doubt it would be visible from any angle with the naked eye.

so, I think you may have found a fantastic diamond. I would still ask what it looks like from other angles as I am thinking that cloud may consist of primarily black inclusions
and crystals can do some pretty horrific things from side-views....so I say ask just so you dont have any surprises when it comes to you, and it really doesnt hurt anything to go ahead and find out with only what, a 10 day return period? Gives you more time to think about it if you need to.

WHFSR, I appreciate your enthusiasm and your passion for helping, but there are times that I feel your conjecture can do more harm than good.

It's a bit irresponsible (as someone who admitting knows nothing about grading diamonds, as you say) to make suppositions you aren't really qualified to make. What exactly makes you think the cloud consists primarily of black inclusions, having never laid eyes on this stone? How many diamonds have you seen with crystals leading you to suggest that crystals can do some pretty horrific things?

I know you mean well, but doing this can often do more harm (in misinforming and unintentionally misleading) than good.

It appears he's already gotten confirmation from the vendor that the stone is eyeclean, and as you know, there is a pretty easy return policy if he doesn't like the stone, so why induce potential concern and worry now?

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/17/2007 1:53:20 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 9/16/2007 3:20:11 PM

Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

I think it looks really nice. From the image I would say that the clouds is probably the main grade setter, though I certainly have no experience grading diamonds so I could be way off base and while it looks clearly visible under magnification I would doubt it would be visible from any angle with the naked eye.


so, I think you may have found a fantastic diamond. I would still ask what it looks like from other angles as I am thinking that cloud may consist of primarily black inclusions

and crystals can do some pretty horrific things from side-views....so I say ask just so you dont have any surprises when it comes to you, and it really doesnt hurt anything to go ahead and find out with only what, a 10 day return period? Gives you more time to think about it if you need to.

WHFSR, I appreciate your enthusiasm and your passion for helping, but there are times that I feel your conjecture can do more harm than good.


It''s a bit irresponsible (as someone who admitting knows nothing about grading diamonds, as you say) to make suppositions you aren''t really qualified to make. What exactly makes you think the cloud consists primarily of black inclusions, having never laid eyes on this stone? How many diamonds have you seen with crystals leading you to suggest that crystals can do some pretty horrific things?


I know you mean well, but doing this can often do more harm (in misinforming and unintentionally misleading) than good.


It appears he''s already gotten confirmation from the vendor that the stone is eyeclean, and as you know, there is a pretty easy return policy if he doesn''t like the stone, so why induce potential concern and worry now?

All I was saying is that he will have a short period for returns, and sometimes on seeing a diamond we don''t see everything that there is to be seen right off the bat. As we observe them over several days we may find that certain elements of color or clarity or cut or even shape bother us more than we had thought that they would. Especially when buying online and not doing a tremendous amount of in person shopping, then we are suddenly holding the diamond we are going to propose with in our hands, loose no less, and come across a slight small matter that leaves us uncertain and we as consumers only have a few days left to decide if this is the one we wish to keep for the proposal or not. Therefore, I was just suggesting it is best to ask all questions possible now so that he can get the best possible mental image of the diamond before it arrives. In that way he can further weight and evluate his decision as he holds the diamond, pays for the diamond and waits for it to be shipped to him, and then when he gets it he already has all of the data laid in front of him and he can easily look over all of those various aspects stone in hand and verify that he is fine with everything as it is. That way, there wont be any sudden surprises and very quick decisions to be made on such an important purchase.


Further, there is an image provided. While I have seen both black and white inclusions with a loupe I couldn''t say for sure that appearances always hold true in magnified images due to lighting and whatever other elements go into taking such pictures.

However, I have also seen images of black and white inclusions and using what I have observed up till I looked at the provided magnified image and decided what color the inclusions mainly appear to be. Being that I could be wrong though I wanted him to know that I am not experience, thereby making the only logical conclusions that he call up and do just as I had suggested, ask all of the necessary questions to void any possibility of surprise once the diamond arrives. And, obviously, since I am admittedly lacking any knowledge and experience and as you pointed out the vendor he is dealing with is a straight shooter, then whatever the vendor says will trump anything that I have said meaning that any inaccurate conjectures I may have come up with will be negated by the hands on observations of the vendors.

I doubt this diamond has any problems, but its always best to ask to minimize risk and to have a better understanding of exactly what the diamond looks like in various lighting conditions and from various angles from which the consumer might be interested. So I am going to have to disagree in that I do not feel it is irresponsible at all to recommend he try to get all of that information before he starts the timer that is set in motion as soon as the purchase is paid. Sometimes we can be unhappy with a purchase even after the timer has run out, better to be sure beforehand I think. And more responsible for us to arm him with questions to aid in him doing so than to simply give positive feedback and ignore the areas that COULD present problems in the future..

 

[Jenn5504]

Date: 9/16/2007 3:15:10 PM
Author: bedenny
Ok, after a little more thought, I decided to drop my stone budget to $5000.
I found this one at WF, and they said it was eye clean.
What do you think?
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-358380.htm

Looks great! I am very happy with my J SI2 from WF that they closely reviewed before even being willing to sell it to me----it was for the "virtual" inventory---I would be completely comfortable with an I SI1 from then ANY day. Your GF will love it!

 

[curiopotter]

Date: 9/17/2007 1:53:20 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 9/16/2007 3:20:11 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
I think it looks really nice. From the image I would say that the clouds is probably the main grade setter, though I certainly have no experience grading diamonds so I could be way off base and while it looks clearly visible under magnification I would doubt it would be visible from any angle with the naked eye.

so, I think you may have found a fantastic diamond. I would still ask what it looks like from other angles as I am thinking that cloud may consist of primarily black inclusions
and crystals can do some pretty horrific things from side-views....so I say ask just so you dont have any surprises when it comes to you, and it really doesnt hurt anything to go ahead and find out with only what, a 10 day return period? Gives you more time to think about it if you need to.

WHFSR, I appreciate your enthusiasm and your passion for helping, but there are times that I feel your conjecture can do more harm than good.

It''s a bit irresponsible (as someone who admitting knows nothing about grading diamonds, as you say) to make suppositions you aren''t really qualified to make. What exactly makes you think the cloud consists primarily of black inclusions, having never laid eyes on this stone? How many diamonds have you seen with crystals leading you to suggest that crystals can do some pretty horrific things?

I know you mean well, but doing this can often do more harm (in misinforming and unintentionally misleading) than good.

It appears he''s already gotten confirmation from the vendor that the stone is eyeclean, and as you know, there is a pretty easy return policy if he doesn''t like the stone, so why induce potential concern and worry now?

I don''t want to offend anyone or step on anyone''s toes, but I really have to agree with aljdewey because I''ve noticed the same thing from several of your posts WHFSR. You really should consider what you''re writing before you click ''send'' because from my third party perspective, it can really send the wrong message to the consumer you''re trying to help. Just be mindful of that, especially if you have little to no experience with things you''re discussing.

 

[curiopotter]

I think that diamond is a great choice and looks wonderful

 

[kcoursolle]

Date: 9/17/2007 2:33:30 PM
Author: Jenn5504

Date: 9/16/2007 3:15:10 PM
Author: bedenny
Ok, after a little more thought, I decided to drop my stone budget to $5000.
I found this one at WF, and they said it was eye clean.
What do you think?
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-358380.htm

Looks great! I am very happy with my J SI2 from WF that they closely reviewed before even being willing to sell it to me----it was for the ''virtual'' inventory---I would be completely comfortable with an I SI1 from then ANY day. Your GF will love it!

I think it looks great too. If they said if was eye clean I would believe them and I really believe that it is a great balance between budget and whiteness. It will look *white* to the casual observer and will only be tinted slightly from the side.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/17/2007 2:32:32 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

All I was saying is that he will have a short period for returns, and sometimes on seeing a diamond we don''t see everything that there is to be seen right off the bat. As we observe them over several days we may find that certain elements of color or clarity or cut or even shape bother us more than we had thought that they would. Especially when buying online and not doing a tremendous amount of in person shopping, then we are suddenly holding the diamond we are going to propose with in our hands, loose no less, and come across a slight small matter that leaves us uncertain and we as consumers only have a few days left to decide if this is the one we wish to keep for the proposal or not. Therefore, I was just suggesting it is best to ask all questions possible now so that he can get the best possible mental image of the diamond before it arrives. In that way he can further weight and evluate his decision as he holds the diamond, pays for the diamond and waits for it to be shipped to him, and then when he gets it he already has all of the data laid in front of him and he can easily look over all of those various aspects stone in hand and verify that he is fine with everything as it is. That way, there wont be any sudden surprises and very quick decisions to be made on such an important purchase.....


I doubt this diamond has any problems, but its always best to ask to minimize risk and to have a better understanding of exactly what the diamond looks like in various lighting conditions and from various angles from which the consumer might be interested. So I am going to have to disagree in that I do not feel it is irresponsible at all to recommend he try to get all of that information before he starts the timer that is set in motion as soon as the purchase is paid. Sometimes we can be unhappy with a purchase even after the timer has run out, better to be sure beforehand I think. And more responsible for us to arm him with questions to aid in him doing so than to simply give positive feedback and ignore the areas that COULD present problems in the future..

WHFSR....if that''s your goal---to help---then maybe you could retool those suggestions with language that doesn''t suggest impending doom?

There is not a single thing in those diamond images to remotely even suggest anything black, much less "horrible". Winding someone''s clock by making them fearful about something that may be a complete non-issue isn''t especially helpful and it ADDS stress to the purchase process.

If you''re suggestion is to ask the vendor about how the inclusions appear from the side, then it''s probably helpful to limit the suggestion to just that. The highlighted portions are what may raise stress and induce needless worry.

I would still ask what it looks like from other angles as I am thinking that cloud may consist of primarily black inclusions
and crystals can do some pretty horrific things from side-views....so I say ask just so you dont have any surprises when it comes to you.

If you had instead limited it to "I would still ask what it looks like from side view too just so you dont have any surprises when it comes to you.", you could have accomplished the same goal (to help the poster avoid unexpected disappointment) without inciting possible fear.

Let''s also inject a little reality here. Most of the vendors here have a trade-up policy. As such, it''s highly unlikely that any buyer here has to worry about being stuck with a diamond that bothers them.....even if it takes them a month to say "yanno, I can''t get past how this stone looks from the side."

This isn''t a do-or-die thing. It''s not life or death. It''s a diamond purchase. Important? Yes. Emotional? Yes. Best hope to get it right the first time? Yes. BUT....it''s not life or death, and it''s not really so serious to warrant suggesting possible negative issues.

We can agree to disagree, but since it seems at least a few other posters have gotten the same impression, it might give you something to think about.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/20/2007 2:40:33 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 9/17/2007 2:32:32 PM

Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards


All I was saying is that he will have a short period for returns, and sometimes on seeing a diamond we don't see everything that there is to be seen right off the bat. As we observe them over several days we may find that certain elements of color or clarity or cut or even shape bother us more than we had thought that they would. Especially when buying online and not doing a tremendous amount of in person shopping, then we are suddenly holding the diamond we are going to propose with in our hands, loose no less, and come across a slight small matter that leaves us uncertain and we as consumers only have a few days left to decide if this is the one we wish to keep for the proposal or not. Therefore, I was just suggesting it is best to ask all questions possible now so that he can get the best possible mental image of the diamond before it arrives. In that way he can further weight and evluate his decision as he holds the diamond, pays for the diamond and waits for it to be shipped to him, and then when he gets it he already has all of the data laid in front of him and he can easily look over all of those various aspects stone in hand and verify that he is fine with everything as it is. That way, there wont be any sudden surprises and very quick decisions to be made on such an important purchase.....



I doubt this diamond has any problems, but its always best to ask to minimize risk and to have a better understanding of exactly what the diamond looks like in various lighting conditions and from various angles from which the consumer might be interested. So I am going to have to disagree in that I do not feel it is irresponsible at all to recommend he try to get all of that information before he starts the timer that is set in motion as soon as the purchase is paid. Sometimes we can be unhappy with a purchase even after the timer has run out, better to be sure beforehand I think. And more responsible for us to arm him with questions to aid in him doing so than to simply give positive feedback and ignore the areas that COULD present problems in the future..

WHFSR....if that's your goal---to help---then maybe you could retool those suggestions with language that doesn't suggest impending doom?

There is not a single thing in those diamond images to remotely even suggest anything black, much less 'horrible'. Winding someone's clock by making them fearful about something that may be a complete non-issue isn't especially helpful and it ADDS stress to the purchase process.


If you're suggestion is to ask the vendor about how the inclusions appear from the side, then it's probably helpful to limit the suggestion to just that. The highlighted portions are what may raise stress and induce needless worry.


I would still ask what it looks like from other angles as I am thinking that cloud may consist of primarily black inclusions

and crystals can do some pretty horrific things from side-views....so I say ask just so you dont have any surprises when it comes to you.


If you had instead limited it to 'I would still ask what it looks like from side view too just so you dont have any surprises when it comes to you.', you could have accomplished the same goal (to help the poster avoid unexpected disappointment) without inciting possible fear.


Let's also inject a little reality here. Most of the vendors here have a trade-up policy. As such, it's highly unlikely that any buyer here has to worry about being stuck with a diamond that bothers them.....even if it takes them a month to say 'yanno, I can't get past how this stone looks from the side.'


This isn't a do-or-die thing. It's not life or death. It's a diamond purchase. Important? Yes. Emotional? Yes. Best hope to get it right the first time? Yes. BUT....it's not life or death, and it's not really so serious to warrant suggesting possible negative issues.


We can agree to disagree, but since it seems at least a few other posters have gotten the same impression, it might give you something to think about.

Points taken. Thought in truth my vocab was mostly in jest, except for the part about the cloud maybe consisting of black inclusions. Looked black to me, and it is often difficult to see clouds (as well as other inclusions though they can be the trickiest) in online images for whatever reason, even when they aren't quite so difficult to spot in person. But nonetheless you all make some valid points.

But anyway, did he make a decision yet? I want to hear whats happened!

 

[bedenny]

Hey all,
Thanks for the help with everything.
I did purchase the last diamond I posted ( I SI1 1.07 ct. expert selection from WF, $5000 w/setting). Before the purchase, and after the first lady told me the diamond was eye clean from the top, I asked James if it was eye clean from the side. The answer was no. However, James said it was white and would not affect light performance in any way.
I have not received it yet but here is what they sent me after setting it in a white gold tiffany setting.
If the white inclusion turns out to be an issue, I''ll send it back and try again (cross my fingers).
Thanks again,
Ben

 

[onedrop]

wow that was fast Ben! I was just reading through all of the comments and then I saw you posted pics of the completed ring!!! Congratulations...you made a great choice and the stone looks really white. Your GF will love it!

 

[Shay37]

It looks lovely to me. Congrats on finding a lovely stone and a really great setting.

shay

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You did great, Ben! I think it looks beautiful!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

cant wait to see some real life shots, and I doubt its going to be a problem, hopefully not!

 

[Ellen]

Beautiful! Please post hand pics.

 

[sera]

Looks good! Post some pics when you get it

 

[bedenny]

Got the ring, and popped the question. She said yes!!

The diamond looks great in direct sunlight and in dull yellow lighting conditions (like a romantic resteraunt). It is whiter than expected! Compared it to a F SI 2, which was comparitively priced, and it out performed it no question. However, in low lit conditions, there is not much fire. For example, when driving in the car during the day, and no direct light is hitting the diamond, there is no sparkling color whatsoever. Is this normal?? I''ve never bought a diamond before so I have no clue.
Still have 4 days to return.
Let me know.
Thanks,
Ben
P.S Will post pics soon.

 

[bedenny]

Here is one pic

 

[bedenny]

And another.
Not great pics, and as you all know, it looks way better in person.
Setting is from Kays (= overpriced), but she loved it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Very pretty with the diamond bands!

Yes, a stone will look completely different in different lighting. There is certainly lighting that will not make a diamond sparkle. Mine doesn''t do much in the shade or in florescent lighting either. But in other lighting, it sparkles like crazy! You got a great stone...no worries! What you''re noticing is normal for a well cut stone.

Congrats on your engagement!

 

[kcoursolle]

Beautiful ring, you really did a great job!! Congratulations!!! The rings look fabulous on her.

What you are describing about the lighting conditions is perfectly normal. In spot lighting and restaurant lighting my diamonds sparkle like crazy. In diffused lighting they don''t sparkle but do look white and bright.

 

[marcy]

Your ring is gorgeous. My diamond doesn''t sparkle in sunlight but displays a lot of fire then. It looks great in all other lighting. You got a keeper there! Congratulations on your engagement.

 

[Shay37]

Beautiful. You did an excellent job.

shay