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IYO...what is a BRANDED stone?

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Dancing Fire

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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are these consider "branded"
34.gif
...yes/no ??

BGD signature cuts.
BN signature stones.
JA signature H&A.
 
Yes, to all three.


"Branded", to me, means that a vendor or organization is cutting their own stones (or having them specially cut) to meet a specific (definable) set of criteria.



ETA: does Jared cut their Peerless line?
 
ditto.
 
Date: 4/21/2010 12:42:05 AM
Author:Dancing Fire
are these consider 'branded'
34.gif
...yes/no ??

BGD signature cuts.
BN signature stones.
JA signature H&A.
Click to expand...
Yes indeed and add Infinity to that list.
 
Yes to all four and add ACA as well.
 
And HOF...
 
Date: 4/21/2010 11:25:34 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Absolutely. All 3. Here''s a question for you. How about these two?:

GIA-xxx
AGS-0 Ideal

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
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Nice! And given the fact that people often request a diamond graded by a specific gemological laboratory, I would have to say that the answer is yes.

In addition, I must say that I believe that each dealer who represents a variety of brands or even non-branded diamonds is a brand of sorts within themselves based on their selection / rejection criteria and evaluation process.
 
I would say that GIA ex/ex/ex and certainly AGS ''triple ideal'' 0,D,IF stones are branded, but I would be leery of a vendor who took those stones and slapped his own "brand" on them without at least further narrowing the requirements

As in, "Yssie''s Special Stones" that I''m selling in my store, that are all GIA ex/ex/ex but that''s my only requirement for my brand.
 
Date: 4/21/2010 2:18:15 PM
Author: yssie
I would say that GIA ex/ex/ex and certainly AGS ''triple ideal'' 0,D,IF stones are branded, but I would be leery of a vendor who took those stones and slapped his own ''brand'' on them without at least further narrowing the requirements


As in, ''Yssie''s Special Stones'' that I''m selling in my store, that are all GIA ex/ex/ex but that''s my only requirement for my brand.
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What''s the difference between that and the BN Signature series?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
BN has their signature line cut specifically for them, Yssie's specials are just all the GIA ex/ex/ex's I get in my monthly shipment.



ETA: by "brand" I'm not implying that these stones are of superior quality, simply that they're exclusively available to the specific set of customers that purchase from that given line/vendor/whatever.
 
Yssie, are you selling your stones for a good price
3.gif
I might be interested if you are.
 
All but GIA 3Ex are Brands. GIA is overly broad in giving this grade and I believe it leads to more variation than a real Brand can support. In my own thread just posted I was looking for replies along these lines along with some other data. There are some Brands not yet mentioned that have done quite well, too.
 
GIA is the most powerful brand name in diamonds right now. People routinely demand GIA and only GIA and they demand x/x/x even without having a clue what it means. A particular stone will generally sell for more and faster with a GIA pedigree than that same stone would bring without it. That’s a brand, and a darned good one at that (in my opinion).


Yssie. I'm not slamming BN but their relationship with their suppliers is far more opaque than that. What they have 'cut for them' and what a cutter cuts and then sells to them is a remarkably fine distinction, rather like it is with most big dealers. I don't see that the difference is all that important. Yssie's signature line would be a brand too, I just wouldn't expect people to pay a big premium for it and so I wouldn't expect anyone to be promoting it. To the extent that people count BN's selection skills as adding something to the mix and therefore worth more than a stone that they haven't selected, I would call that textbook branding.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 4/21/2010 2:00:22 AM
Author: yssie
Yes, to all three.



''Branded'', to me, means that a vendor or organization is cutting their own stones (or having them specially cut) to meet a specific (definable) set of criteria.




ETA: does Jared cut their Peerless line?
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I think there''s a little misunderstanding is this.....if a stone was not cut specifically for a company, but it meets their specifications, they''ll "brand it"
The instances of stones cut specifically for one company is quite rare- while the circumstances I outlined are far more common.

I think Todd''s statement is spot on.
A dealer that has a reputation for a certain type of goods can be selling a "brand" although they did not market it as such specifically.
 
All but GIA 3Ex are Brands. GIA is overly broad in giving their top grade and I believe it leads to more variation than a real Brand can support. In my own thread just posted I was looking for replies along these lines along with some other data. There are some Brands not yet mentioned that have done quite well, too. There are many brands which have failed to become successful and primary to their failure is the inconsistent nature of their cut and appearance.

The GIA is the BRAND of choice when it comes to building a laboratoy''s reputation for gemological sciences and grading. Although a dealer can readily sell GIA graded diamonds due to the positive effect the brand has on their documents, the stones are not Branded, but the lab is the important issue with GIA Branding. Any diamond, poor to excellent may sell better with a GIA report than some other report. It isn''t the diamond, but the lab that makes it a success.

The AGS lab had no reputation to speak of 13 years ago. It is a well respected US lab these days, but not much of an international player. However, the AGSL has created recognized cut grading with some degree of consistency and those diamonds have become a recognized Brand that consumers can rely on. A retailer can sell an AGS000 like any other highly qualified Branded diamond. However, you don''t see many shoppers looking for AGS321 diamonds and many from GIA are exactly those kind of stones. The GIA'' Brand recognition as a world player helps them sell and there is no consistent look to such diamonds.

Of all things, a real Brand has consistency in outcome and performance that you should be able to buy it in the dark and feel confident that you know how it will turn out when the sun comes up. Real Branded diamonds do this very well. The fake brands don''t do the same.
 
I''m with Neil on this one - GIA is the MOST powerful brand name in diamonds today.
Although there''s plenty of debate here on PS about which GIA "triple ex" is the right one- that is not the case in the broader market.
I was just lamenting the situation with another dealer.
Sales are tough in general- but if one has GIA "triple EX" 2ct G/VS2, they are incredibly strong in price.
 
As a consumer, I''ve never really considered the implications of ''branding'' any particular consumable beyond "this is a better brand brand because I''ve had good experiences with their other goods, xyz have told me they''re top of the line, etc."


In that statement ''brand'' takes on a whole new meaning - it now stands for a vendor''s entire line of produce!


To me, personally, when I do think about it, my definition of ''branded'' includes a certain level of ownership or definition before the end-product arrives at the store. If a diamond is "cut" for a line, however loose that actual relationship is, I will consider it part of a "brand". If a vendor chooses a lot of goods based on a predetermined set of requirements that further funnel another ''characteristic'' (say, Yssie''s specials are all of the AGS000 "brand", and they all have only c 34-35, t 54-56...) okay, it''s a ''brand''. If Yssie''s specials are literally just another brand''s line that I happen to have in my possession - all AGS000s, say, with no further narrowing or preselection - I feel that calling it a ''brand'' ought to be a violation of some sort of ownership rule.


It is interesting, though admittedly unsurprising, to learn that my definition is not universally shared... it is precisely the haziness in "real/fake", marketed/unmarketed, etc. that makes tried and true lines like the ones mentioned earlier in this thread so successful, I suppose!
 
"I''m with Neil on this one - GIA is the MOST powerful brand name in diamonds today.
Although there''s plenty of debate here on PS about which GIA "triple ex" is the right one- that is not the case in the broader market.
I was just lamenting the situation with another dealer.
Sales are tough in general- but if one has GIA "triple EX" 2ct G/VS2, they are incredibly strong in price. "
David- Diamonds by Lauren

I hear you and agree that diamond with GIA reports are way easier to sell to consumers because the GIA name is just everywhere. IGI is probably better respected or more well known in India for their domestic market. What is incorrect is the perception that the actual diamonds GIA grades have the consistency required to be equal to a Branded diamond with highly consistent appearance and performance. GIA3EX are not even in that lofty category. Most are lovely, but not at all equal to one another like a true brand should be. Besides GIA grades all levels of stones and helps make them all to sell better.

If you want a Chevrolet Impala, you would not look kindly on a dealer telling you a Chevrolet Monte Carlo has all the same attributes and that both are equal to one another in all respects. Each of these vehicles is a distinct brand to itself and just because it is blessed by GM, they are far from the same brand. Each GM model is a distinct brand. Think about the careful shoppers we see here splitting hairs about quality. They would nevre accept such a wide difference between identically branded products. The result would be the brand would fail to be popular as it would be considered unreliable.


GIA''s brand value is in the consistency of its grading, not in the consistency of the products graded. There is a huge difference here in what brand you are thinking about. Diamond Brands are very different from a Laboratory Brand. AGSL, by its boutique nature, has created an AGS000 Brand with great effectiveness. At the same time, AGSL has limited its overall business potential to this smallish upper range unless it can figure out how to separate the now valued brand from less consistent, less welll cut stones that it would also love to grade for a fee.
 
Date: 4/21/2010 4:01:18 PM
Author: oldminer
'I'm with Neil on this one - GIA is the MOST powerful brand name in diamonds today.
Although there's plenty of debate here on PS about which GIA 'triple ex' is the right one- that is not the case in the broader market.
I was just lamenting the situation with another dealer.
Sales are tough in general- but if one has GIA 'triple EX' 2ct G/VS2, they are incredibly strong in price. '
David- Diamonds by Lauren

I hear you and agree that diamond with GIA reports are way easier to sell to consumers because the GIA name is just everywhere. IGI is probably better respected or more well known in India for their domestic market. What is incorrect is the perception that the actual diamonds GIA grades have the consistency required to be equal to a Branded diamond with highly consistent appearance and performance. GIA3EX are not even in that lofty category. Most are lovely, but not at all equal to one another like a true brand should be. Besides GIA grades all levels of stones and helps make them all to sell better.

If you want a Chevrolet Impala, you would not look kindly on a dealer telling you a Chevrolet Monte Carlo has all the same attributes and that both are equal to one another in all respects. Each of these vehicles is a distinct brand to itself and just because it is blessed by GM, they are far from the same brand. Each GM model is a distinct brand. Think about the careful shoppers we see here splitting hairs about quality. They would nevre accept such a wide difference between identically branded products. The result would be the brand would fail to be popular as it would be considered unreliable.


GIA's brand value is in the consistency of its grading, not in the consistency of the products graded. There is a huge difference here in what brand you are thinking about. Diamond Brands are very different from a Laboratory Brand. AGSL, by its boutique nature, has created an AGS000 Brand with great effectiveness. At the same time, AGSL has limited its overall business potential to this smallish upper range unless it can figure out how to separate the now valued brand from less consistent, less welll cut stones that it would also love to grade for a fee.
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Perfectly stated.
 
But the two are inexorably intertwined.
 
I think we may be having a semantic discussion on what ‘branding’ is. To me, when someone is peddling something and they attach a brand name to it, that name is intended to stand for something that extends beyond the obvious. Maybe high quality, maybe good value maybe high status, maybe connection to a particular cause or maybe something else entirely. When people here the phrase ‘GIA certified’, it creates a mental image of something. Probably something good, which is why people throw the phrase around so lightly. That’s branding. ‘Infinity’ or ‘BN signature’ have their own connotations and customers can and do buy an Infinity simply because of the confidence they place in the people standing behind the Infinity brand. The same is true with GIA, AGS and even Pricescope itself. People attach it to the diamond, not the lab services even though it’s not entirely correct to do so. Ask people what sort of diamond they’ve got or what they’re looking for and you’ll hear something like “GIA certified/VS2/G/one carat/Ideal”. It doesn't even matter that GIA and the gurus here would never approve of this description. Routinely GIA’s name will be well ahead of the name of the dealer, the name of the cutter, the name of the jewelry designer et.al.

People routinely describe the advertising dealers here as ‘Pricescope dealers’ and they are seen as being part of a group that imparts far more connotations than their ads in the yellow pages or even Google. That too is branding.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 4/21/2010 3:48:01 PM
Author: yssie

To me, personally, when I do think about it, my definition of ''branded'' includes a certain level of ownership or definition before the end-product arrives at the store. If a diamond is ''cut'' for a line, however loose that actual relationship is, I will consider it part of a ''brand''. If a vendor chooses a lot of goods based on a predetermined set of requirements that further funnel another ''characteristic'' (say, Yssie''s specials are all of the AGS000 ''brand'', and they all have only c 34-35, t 54-56...) okay, it''s a ''brand''. If Yssie''s specials are literally just another brand''s line that I happen to have in my possession - all AGS000s, say, with no further narrowing or preselection - I feel that calling it a ''brand'' ought to be a violation of some sort of ownership rule.
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if you did that then i''d agree,but what''s happening today is that most vendors just order 0 cuts H&A stones and then call it their own BRAND when infact there are a few hundred more vendors selling the same type of stones.
 
Correct me if I''m wrong, but I think I kind of see where youre going with this....vendors like Blue nile and James Allen slap their signature label on stones that they selected for their cut precision, those stones were not cut by any special cutting house and were not necessarily cut for those vendors. Those vendors just slapped their names on a well cut stone. Whereas Vendors such as HPD and Whiteflash (and BGD?) have specific cutting houses they use to provide them with their "Brand", whether it be Infinity, ACA or a BG signature. I am actually not sure about BGD, I have one and I''ve actually been curious about how they get their Signature diamonds, is it from the same cutting house as when Brian was with Whiteflash, or did they start using a different cutting house, or do they just hand pick nice diamonds off the market?
 
Date: 4/21/2010 11:07:57 PM
Author: niceice21
Correct me if I''m wrong, but I think I kind of see where youre going with this....vendors like Blue nile and James Allen slap their signature label on stones that they selected for their cut precision, those stones were not cut by any special cutting house and were not necessarily cut for those vendors. Those vendors just slapped their names on a well cut stone. Whereas Vendors such as HPD and Whiteflash (and BGD?) have specific cutting houses they use to provide them with their ''Brand'', whether it be Infinity, ACA or a BG signature. I am actually not sure about BGD, I have one and I''ve actually been curious about how they get their Signature diamonds, is it from the same cutting house as when Brian was with Whiteflash, or did they start using a different cutting house, or do they just hand pick nice diamonds off the market?
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Hi niceice-

BN and JA do have their sig lines cut for them, I believe. Whatever "cut for them" specifically means in the context of this thread.
 
This thread shows me how little I really knew about branding. By the common definition here, is Eightstar a brand?
 
Date: 4/22/2010 3:57:17 AM
Author: Lone_Wolfe
This thread shows me how little I really knew about branding. By the common definition here, is Eightstar a brand?
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Yes it most certainly it is, their production is quite limited and cut in house by them, their marketing makes it clear what differentiates their brand from other diamond brands and from generics.
 
Date: 4/22/2010 12:33:22 AM
Author: yssie
Date: 4/21/2010 11:07:57 PM

Author: niceice21

Correct me if I''m wrong, but I think I kind of see where youre going with this....vendors like Blue nile and James Allen slap their signature label on stones that they selected for their cut precision, those stones were not cut by any special cutting house and were not necessarily cut for those vendors. Those vendors just slapped their names on a well cut stone. Whereas Vendors such as HPD and Whiteflash (and BGD?) have specific cutting houses they use to provide them with their ''Brand'', whether it be Infinity, ACA or a BG signature. I am actually not sure about BGD, I have one and I''ve actually been curious about how they get their Signature diamonds, is it from the same cutting house as when Brian was with Whiteflash, or did they start using a different cutting house, or do they just hand pick nice diamonds off the market?
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Hi niceice-


BN and JA do have their sig lines cut for them, I believe. Whatever ''cut for them'' specifically means in the context of this thread.
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Have you confirmed this yssie?
 
Confirmed with BN (called a few months ago about this)

On the JA homepage it states that their H&A TrueHearts are cut at 100x magnification, but wouldn't hurt to call and ask to confirm.
 
A sign of a true brand is if others start copying your taglines, even if they are far from the truth. Just like the two copycats, mentioned by Yssie.

Live long
 
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