IYO, should in-person schools (K through post Ph.D) open now?

[chemgirl]

I think it depends on factors like are the numbers going down in your area, is there fast testing available, and is there a plan to limit contact at school.

It would appear that much of the US isn’t there yet. We’re talking about reopening in Canada with a specific plan in place, but I’m on the fence about it. Some parts of the world seem to have a better handle on the virus and school seems to be working out.

The key being there needs to be a lot of support and strategizing before schools reopen. It can’t just be a decision because of a timeline.

 

[seaurchin]

Doing things that continue to spread the pandemic only make it worse, longer lasting and with more deaths. Children who are exposed to Covid-19 spread it just like adults.

There's a very disturbing anti-science trend from the top in our country, which is typical of fascism, as is the disregard for human life.

How contagious disease spreads is very simple so a lot of the arguments I've heard all over the place are just absurdly ignorant.

 

[chemgirl]

It depends where you are.

Our schools opened fully on Wednesday. No masks, no social distancing. The kids use hand sanitizer on entry and exit of every class, they have doubled up teaching slots (so 90mins of one subject instead of 45mins of two subjects) and they are keeping each class together as much as they can so no mixing out with their class at lunchtime. There are also measures if you feel unwell, sneeze on a table etc.

It might be that in two weeks time the whole thing gets shut down again but time will tell and i am happy with the way things are.

Did the school admin explain their decision not to use masks? Our plan has mandatory masks for children over 10 and optional masking for younger children. There is a bit of an uproar about younger children not wearing masks.

 

[1ofakind]

However a nurse friend who worked with covid kids during the peak says open them up and send them all to school.

Two of the doctors that I know are sending their kids off to college....fully open, no virtual classes. They have no issues with schools being open...with precautions and a plan.

 

[Calliecake]

Two of the doctors that I know are sending their kids off to college....fully open, no virtual classes. They have no issues with schools being open...with precautions and a plan.

That doesn’t mean your friends the doctors are correct. My guess is they would feel entirely different if their child ended up dead due the virus. There are people who only care about something if it directly impacts them.

 

[AprilBaby]

My daughter works in housing at a major university. No in person learning. Too dangerous for staff and faculty. My DIL is a 4th grade teacher. All online learning for now. The district will supply notebooks to all students and Comcast will supply free internet. It’s gonna be up to the families to make sure the kids log on and do their work.

 

[Tartansparkles]

Did the school admin explain their decision not to use masks? Our plan has mandatory masks for children over 10 and optional masking for younger children. There is a bit of an uproar about younger children not wearing masks.

No, no reason (that I'm aware of) for not wearing masks). It will have come from Scottish government level so all schools will be following the same rules. Maybe it was pragmatism, as other posters have noted, young child and masks just won't work. But that said, I think there is no requirement for kids under 12 to wear a mask (effectively excluding all primary school children). Some other changes were introduced before the schools went back, like young children not having to socially distance and older kids being allowed to meet in larger groups. I suspect some changes (like the above) were orchestrated to facilitate the return to school but on the whole the Scot gov. have taken a very strict and pragmatic approach and I (mostly) trust the FM to make the right choices. (I say mostly simply because it's not possible for any one person to make all the right decisions all of the time).

 

[TooPatient]

Its such a double edged sword. You have kids and parents who need the schools to be open, because in many cases you have "Online" schooling which is not sufficient under ADA Law. I think 80% of kids can do online learning, but what about the other 20% do they deserve to be left behind? Does the law at this time get ignored?

Its a conundrum and a sad situation all the way around.

I wish districts were looking at hybrid options that left everyone who can doing the online learning while bringing those who can't (and I mean really can't, not just those who feel like seeing friends) in for regular in person days. If they only had that 20% in person, each teacher could have a few kids in separate rooms with lots of space. 5 kids in a room or even 10-15 in a big cafeteria space would be a lot more manageable to distance and keep safe.

In my opinion, this would be far safer for everyone (compared to just opening for all) and would provide a better learning environment for those who need to be in person. Other options I have seen would have them going in person two days per week or a couple of hours each day meaning they would still be mostly on their own.

ETA: I didn't vote for an option because my answer is a solid 1 and 10 at the same time.

 

[AGBF]

My brother is on a school board in a district where his wife teaches first grade. The school board has been struggling with this decision. There are may minority children in this district whose parents work; who need support from the school; and who, along with their families, also may be at above average risk for covid19. My brother said that if they fall behind in their work, they can catch up, but if they die, no one can bring them back to life.

That was not the final word, but maybe it should be.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

France has reopened the schools for 2 weeks before the summer holidays (I've written about it in the other school thread)
It hasn't resulted in spikes that could be linked to reopening the schools.
I am personally one who wouldn't have sent my kids, was the "last* parent to send them, actually, but it was mandatory.

Of course our numbers were then nowhere near the US numbers atm, but let me reportjust from a practical standpoint:
Social distancing and wearing masks & sanitizing did work without any problem for the children. Teachers were firm about the rules, kids applied the rules.
Children weren't traumatized or anything.

I don't get why one wouldn't at least try that instead of just throwing everyone together unmasked and without a plan in place.

My kids were 6,8,10,12 at that time.



6 -10 y/O : masks if you are not sitting at your designated desk.

12 y/O : masks on during class at request of teacher

My teacher friends in Germany have started teaching on Monday and they say they'd prefer everyone to wear face shields during class. Some teachers have had big plexiglass shields installed on their desks (like in front of the cashiers in supermarkets).

I think that's a viable option (masked anything and face shields during actual class plus shields for extra protection for the teacher) in areas other than the US - or US locations with good numbers.

I didn't send my 3 y/o @because her age bracket can absolutely not apply any of the above safety measures.

Schools reopening has not triggered rise in Covid-19 cases, EU ministers told

France’s education minister says it is more of a risk keeping children at home

www.theguardian.com

 

[1ofakind]

There are people who only care about something if it directly impacts them.

There are, but these people are not such people. But you wouldn’t know because you don’t know them at all. They are actually very Intelligent, educated, experienced, caring and community focused. They, like most everyone else, were in favor of locking down, closing schools when we didn’t have any idea what was going on. But they also know that shutting down just kicks the can down the road And unless dealing with a hotspot shutting everything down doesn’t work long term. Their children are at higher risk driving to and from college than from covid. Probably higher risk of exposure at home given their parents work at a hospital taking Covid patients.
And I’m not sure why people say things like ‘they’ll probably feel differently if their kid dies...’. That seems especially insensitive. But thanks for you opinion/judgement.

 

[kenny]

...
And I’m not sure why people say things like ‘they’ll probably feel differently if their kid dies...

Oh, maybe because it's true.

 

[AGBF]

Oh, maybe because it's true.

There is a poster on Pricescope whose son lost a nineteen year-old friend to covid19. (He was also a family friend.) The poster is a kind, educated woman. Prior to this young man's death she was already responsible, but she has posted that his death has affected her and her attitude toward the virus greatly. How could that not be the case? How could losing a child not make your attitude change?

 

[msop04]

What exactly is the endgame here? No more cases? No more deaths? I have yet to hear this from anyone. We shut everything down initially so that hospitals would not be overwhelmed and to "flatten the curve." The vast majority of hospitals worked at 40% capacity through it all, and we did flatten the curve. All we heard about was "deaths and hospitalizations" (which is what is important). Now that Covid been proven to have a 0.4% mortality rate (and likely lower than that, due to asymptomatic cases that will never be known), all we hear about is "all these new cases"... Did anyone think there would be little to no new cases when things opened back up?? Come on, now. You can't keep ppl from working forever.

The focus is on entirely the wrong thing. It should be percentage of positives requiring hospitalization and deaths, not the number of new cases being the reason for continued shutdown... period.

 

[Calliecake]

I stand by what I said @1ofakind . How was my comment insensitive? As far as opinions go, you have no problem voicing yours. Why should I not voice mine?
We are never going to agree on this subject. You didn’t take this virus very serious from the beginning. I did and continue to do so. It becomes very real when you have a family member diagnosed with it.


The end game is to prevent as many deaths as possible @msop04 . Isn’t that always the end game with a serious virus or disease?

 

[msop04]

I stand by what I said @1ofakind . How was my comment insensitive? As far as opinions go, you have no problem voicing yours. Why should I not voice mine?
We are never going to agree on this subject. You didn’t take this virus very serious from the beginning. I did and continue to do so. It becomes very real when you have a family member diagnosed with it.


The end game is to prevent as many deaths as possible @msop04 . Isn’t that always the end game with a serious virus or disease?

Of course it is... which is why we shut down the country, bankrupt businesses and people, and ruin the economy every flu season. Wait... no we don't ever do that. This was never about the virus.

 

[Calliecake]

Of course it is... which is why we shut down the country, bankrupt businesses and people, and ruin the economy every flu season. Wait... no we don't ever do that. This was never about the virus.

This isn’t a normal flu. What do you mean this was never about the virus?

 

[kenny]

Of course it is... which is why we shut down the country, bankrupt businesses and people, and ruin the economy every flu season. Wait... no we don't ever do that. This was never about the virus.

Yeah, I'm a leftie and I'm over-the-moon delighted we've finally "shut down the country, bankrupted businesses and people, and ruined the economy"
I'm celebrating!

 

[Demon]

Of course it is... which is why we shut down the country, bankrupt businesses and people, and ruin the economy every flu season. Wait... no we don't ever do that. This was never about the virus.
[/QUOTE

This wasn't about the virus? Please tell us then what it was about.

 

[scouty]

The end game here? Hmm... The American passport is currently useless right now because the international community sees the US for what it is; a plague state. This is the new normal, the US has crashed through the third world and into the fourth.

The future is an epidemic that spreads largely unchecked until next year. A population too unprotected and ignorant to be allowed anywhere else.

 

[scouty]

I stand by what I said @1ofakind . How was my comment insensitive? As far as opinions go, you have no problem voicing yours. Why should I not voice mine?
We are never going to agree on this subject. You didn’t take this virus very serious from the beginning. I did and continue to do so. It becomes very real when you have a family member diagnosed with it.


The end game is to prevent as many deaths as possible @msop04 . Isn’t that always the end game with a serious virus or disease?

There’s a lot of good articles on the psychology behind what keeps fueling the spread of this pandemic. A lot of it has to do with illusory superiority as related to how people access their own health. An example of this thought process is; “Bob smoked his whole life and never got lung cancer, so why would I?” This combined with a lack of forward thinking creates a scenario where these people do not anticipate the worst will happen to them... until it does.

 

[Elizabeth35]

I'm glad I don't have younger kids. Our youngest is, at this point, supposed to return to in person learning at an out-of-state universityl. It is in a more remote area with low case count, but with all the young people returning I am concerned that they could spike. He is a senior, lives in a house and follows precautions. But a bunch of 18 year olds in a dorm with their first taste of freedom? Egads.

I think there are ways, in some regions, to return to the classroom fairly safely. But it only takes one child or staff member to start a chain reaction.

I really feel bad for single parents who have to return to work and have kids that can't go to school.
What do you do about that if you don't have family or friends to help? And how do you ensure they keep learning?

 

[1ofakind]

How was my comment insensitive?

Talking about them learning a lesson, so to speak, if their kid dies...??? IDK why anyone would go there.
One could same thing about a lot of things...well I guess if they get skin cancer they’ll regret being out in the sun so much.
I guess if they have a massive heart attack they’ll wish they had kept an eye on their blood pressure.
maybe if their kid gets run over by a car they will figure out they should not have let them ride a bike in the street.
But people don’t talk like that...because it’s insensitive.

You didn’t take this virus very serious from the beginning.

Did I take it Kenny serious...no. But that is not how most people did/could have responded. Have I been careless and cavalier? No. If you’d like to know you could ask and not make unfounded, judgmental assumptions.

 

[kenny]

Talking about them learning a lesson, so to speak, if their kid dies...??? IDK why anyone would go there.
One could same thing about a lot of things...well I guess if they get skin cancer they’ll regret being out in the sun so much.
I guess if they have a massive heart attack they’ll wish they had kept an eye on their blood pressure.
maybe if their kid gets run over by a car they will figure out they should not have let them ride a bike in the street.
But people don’t talk like that...because it’s insensitive.

People DO talk like that.
Why? Unfortunately it takes some personal tragedy to get some folks to snap out of their denial and ignorance.

I'll tell you what is insensitive ... people helping the virus spread by not wearing masks and socially isolating.
They aren't just talking about your loved ones dying, they are helping to kill them.

... and that is much worse than being insensitive.

Oh, and judging is healthy, wise and good.
A person who never judges (actually no such person exists) would let their 14 year old daughter "date" the old homeless man who lives under the bridge.
Oh, and aren't you judging those who 'talk like that'?

 

[1ofakind]

@kenny There is no recommendation for isolation unless one is high risk, is sick or may have been exposed, waiting for contact tracing test results. The rest of us can social distance. It’s not careless or insensitive to do so especially in areas with low numbers of cases. Even Fauci is going to baseball games And slacking on the mask wearing...and because of his age he’s in the risky category.

 

[kenny]

If you care about anyone's grannies and grandadads then it's masks and social isolation.

Use brain.
Low risk is not no risk.

 

[voce]

Use brain.
Low risk is not no risk.

Use brain.
There's no such thing as no risk anywhere in the world.
It's pretty cavalier to call other people killers when you can't be sure whether they have the virus or not.
Everyone has a different risk tolerance level. Just because your risk threshold is lower doesn't give you any superiority over others whose tolerance for risk is higher. You stay cautious and stay out of the way of people who aren't taking it seriously. You don't need to put down people without knowing what they are doing in their everyday lives to prevent the spread of this virus.

 

[1ofakind]

Why do I need a mask if I’m isolated?

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

As a non-parent, I was told very pointedly by a friend who has a school aged child that my opinion on this topic doesn't matter, and is not welcome. She is adamantly pro 100% reopening, because she has a child with special needs and, as the full time caregiver, she is overwhelmed. I feel for all parents, I can't imagine how difficult the last 5 months have been. But I can't fathom how they will manage to keep masks on kids, or keep them social distancing, especially given how overcrowded most US schools are. I can only say I'm immensely relieved to be neither a parent nor a teacher at this moment.

covid 19 does not discriminate who it infects
community transnission effects us all wheather we have kids or not

imangine if we applied your friend's logic across all the political and social issues of today ?

 

[1ofakind]

LOL Kenny. You can call me names if you want but you could just answer the question. If I am isolated and in contact with no other person why would I need a mask? I wouldn’t be breathing any air but my own and no one would be breathing my air. You do know that is what isolation means right? Is it so I don’t infect myself?

Anyone else can feel free to answe if I’m just being dense and you’d like to enlighten me. I promise not to swear at you, ignore you call you names.