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It''s Time To buy. ....Advice?

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pipeline010

Rough_Rock
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Oct 17, 2006
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Finally scrimped the money it''s gonna take to make this chick happy (i hope!). I''ve been looking over these forums and searching for months but still my head begins to spin when i go looking for diamonds. So here I am for some advice.

Basically this is what i''m going to need:
Princess Cut
Carat: BIG! The bigger the better. She''s made it abundantly clear that she wants big!
Cut: Fire! She wants a dazzling diamond. Wants to burn out her own eye sockets.
Clarity: I''m not sure on this one. Story Below.
Color: Not obviously yellow, and no fluorescence under any circumstances (i tried to sell her on this, absolutely no dice).
Budget: about $5,000.

We went to the local mall jeweler and she tried to sell my lady on a ring that was about $11,000. Was I2 clarity and about 1.5 carats, and an ''I'' in color i think?? My girlfriend LOVED it. Big happy smile on her face. After 5 minutes I got to look at it and the very first thing i saw was the big bad CRACK running down the right side of the face (interior). That day I mentally dropped my Clarity filter from VS2 to SI.

So basically for 5 grand i want to be able to get a diamond that will draw you in with its gravitational pull then shoot lazers through your retinas. Any specific dimensions I should be looking for in terms of l/w ratios or depth/table? Any specific diamonds? Thanks in advance for all your help and reading all the way through this!

-calvin
 

LdyNghtWng

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
76
I think you can do fine with an SI1 using a reputable grading system. If this stone was from a maul store, was it graded properly? Going to VS2 would make your diamond shrink more than you would like I think.
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
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5,951
$4853, based on wire price.

Best of wishes!
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/2/2007 10:06:51 AM
Author: LdyNghtWng
Going to VS2 would make your diamond shrink more than you would like I think.
Or, if Ldynightwing reads better what you meant, vs what you said, $4844 wire priced.

Make sure to read about the impact of AGS certification on performance (do some searches on this board) versus proportion details...
 

kellyfish

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
682
I''d even consider dropping the color to a strong j. Size ladies (like myself) will put up with a LOT to get their size. I''d try to get as close to 1.5 as possible. If she thought the maul stone was shiny and pleasing--I think you are pretty safe in the SI range. Now that dhe has a taste for a 1.5 ct--it is going to be hard to go for less. I''d sacrifice an ornate setting for size, too--put the $$ on the stone.
 

pipeline010

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
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11
yea kelly that''s pretty much what i was thinking. I''m attempting to get as close to 1.5c as I can. Just want to get something of a little value instead of that cracked hunk of junk the mall jeweler was trying to sell me.

That 1.104c on whiteflash looks promising. I''d like to try to push it a little bigger though if possible. Maybe if i drop it to an I or even a J i''d get into a better range (I can always hide the color with a crazy antique or vintage band right?)
 

asscherisme

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
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2,737
Hi,
If she wants big, would she be happy with a round brilliiant instead of princess? Rounds face up bigger than princess. Princess look smaller at the same weight than rounds.

You said she liked the round I2 in the store. I personally like VS stones but if she is all about size and you don''t want to see inclusions with your eye, if you buy an S1 from a reputable person, you could get one where you don''t see the inclusions without a loupe.

I''m sure you will get some other great advice.

Also, I think you are safe sticking with I to go for size as well since she has seen it and liked it. Be aware though that stones will look whiter in the jewlery store lighting so anything beyond an I will have a yellow tint. I see yellow in I but I am color sensative.

And cut, cut, cut.
 

kellyfish

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
682
Is she locked on a princess cut? You can get an oval that faces up much bigger for the carat weight, too....BUT, if she really wants the princess, get the cut she desires...
 

BunniBling

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
120
If she''s a size girl, I highly recommend (somehow) showing her the visual difference between a princess and round. If you''re looking at something in the 1.2 - 1.5 range, the size difference will be noticeable. Of course, if she''s set on a princess cut, try to get the best cut quality you can find and consider "giving" a little on the color and clarity fronts.

I can detect color more readily in a princess than in a round, so I would try to stay with G/H, SI for princesses. If she decides that a round will work, I can tell you that she''ll absolutely adore an ideal/excellent cut I/J, SI.

Don''t forget the safety glasses!


-J
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804

:)

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
1,864
I am not great with princesses, and this is EGL, so it may not be very accurate with grading (may be lower color and clarity - it does not specify which EGL lab graded it), but WF has it listed with 4 stars, so may be worthwhile calling to ask about, esp if she is willing to sacrifice for size - $4614
It is also not perfectly square - I don''t know if you prefer perfectly square princesses, or if slightly rectangular is your thing...

http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-232294.htm

Princesses do tend to show a little color around the corners, which doesn''t matter if both of you are happy with the stone. What lab did the report on the stone you saw in the mall? If not AGS or GIA (or perhaps even EGL USA), then it is possible she was happy with a color that wasn''t really an I which gives you even more leeway. The SI range also gives you leeway and you can just ask vendors if stones you are considering are eye clean - every now and then there is an eye clean I1, but those are pretty rare (although sometimes I1 can have a visible inclusion that can be pronged). I would suggest that you guys try to look at princess stones with colors graded by AGS or GIA in a variety of lighting sources to determine what you are happy with. Sometimes the set up in the mall makes stones look better than they really are (using a black background, etc). Also she may start to notice non-eyecleanliness more the more stones she sees- (kind of like not noticing the crack in the I2 if she doesn''t realize that a crack like that is not ''normal'' for all princesses)

HTH
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
5,951
Two more options to consider. They''re not in house, I don''t believe, but once brought in house, I think Barry can do some helpful testing. Barry''s operation gets mixed reviews on being friendly.
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
Date: 4/2/2007 12:39:33 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Two more options to consider. They''re not in house, I don''t believe, but once brought in house, I think Barry can do some helpful testing. Barry''s operation gets mixed reviews on being friendly.
Ira, that second one is great if they are not color sensitive . . . it is so BIG !!!
 

pipeline010

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
11
wow! you guys and girls put up some great stuff while i was out shopping!!

ok, talk me out of this one:
i wanted to actually SEE some stuff for once, so I went to Steven Singer, a place on jewelers row in philly, and they showed me a setup i really liked.

Vintage band that i was nuts about. 18K white gold for 850ish. My lady would go kookoo for it. Wish I had a picture to show.
Now the stone. They gave me a long and repeated car-dealer speech about how rare it was to have such a stone for the price blah blah blah. They had no idea who they were dealing with.
But as far as looks it looked great and HUGE in the setting. Here's the specs:
EGL cert.
Princess (and yes, unfortunately she's locked on a princess)
Color H (in my opinion this sucker looked WHITE!)
Clarity SI3 (took a look through a loop and saw the mess; after i knew where to look I could spot some of them.)
No Fluor
No Culet
G/G polish sym
1.30 ct.
5.89x5.87x4.43
Depth-75.5%
Table-79%
Crown-10.2%
Pavilion-60.8%

Total setup price - $5100

Ok talk me out of this one cause it really did look great. Bottom line if I gave this to my lady-friend she would do a backflip (and she COULD, she's a gymnast!). But I'm neurotic about spending money on anything, so I want to be sure my lady has true-value on her hand.

Can I do better??

(now to spend some time looking at all the great stuff you folks put up here while i was gone....)
 

BunniBling

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
120
Date: 4/2/2007 4:41:42 PM
Author: pipeline010
wow! you guys and girls put up some great stuff while i was out shopping!!

ok, talk me out of this one:
i wanted to actually SEE some stuff for once, so I went to Steven Singer, a place on jewelers row in philly, and they showed me a setup i really liked.

Vintage band that i was nuts about. 18K white gold for 850ish. My lady would go kookoo for it. Wish I had a picture to show.
Now the stone. They gave me a long and repeated car-dealer speech about how rare it was to have such a stone for the price blah blah blah. They had no idea who they were dealing with.
But as far as looks it looked great and HUGE in the setting. Here''s the specs:
EGL cert.
Princess (and yes, unfortunately she''s locked on a princess)
Color H (in my opinion this sucker looked WHITE!)
Clarity SI3 (took a look through a loop and saw the mess; after i knew where to look I could spot some of them.)
No Fluor
No Culet
G/G polish sym
1.30 ct.
5.89x5.87x4.43
Depth-75.5%
Table-79%
Crown-10.2%
Pavilion-60.8%

Total setup price - $5100

Ok talk me out of this one cause it really did look great. Bottom line if I gave this to my lady-friend she would do a backflip (and she COULD, she''s a gymnast!). But I''m neurotic about spending money on anything, so I want to be sure my lady has true-value on her hand.

Can I do better??

(now to spend some time looking at all the great stuff you folks put up here while i was gone....)
A man on a mission!

I''m definitely not a princess expert, but it seems that the table % could be a little lower. And be sure to check the girdle thickness; too thin and the stone is more prone to chipping during those backflips you mentioned.


Also, what I''ve heard from the PSers is that EGL has more wiggle room on their certs. Meaning that perhaps an H may "really" be an I or even J according to another lab. And you won''t find SI3 on a GIA or AGS cert. Does that even matter to you? Just something to think about...

-J
 

pipeline010

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
11
how about THIS beauty?
http://www.exceldiamonds.com/diamond/44110.html

will this look as large or about as large as the one i saw in the shop? can this question even be answered??
 

FacetFire

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
1,879
Okay, normally I don''t post stones that are outside the stated budget. BUT, if there is any wiggle room...this stone could be amazing (it faces up HUGE - almost .5mm bigger on each side than the one you were looking at): http://www.exceldiamonds.com/diamond/63849.html ($5,907 wire price). I would request more info on it if you think you can consider it. Otherwise, I might call them anyway...they have great prices on ideal princess cut stones and they might be able to keep an eye out for what you are looking for.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Pipeline, just FYI, GIA and AGS do not have SI3's. So what you really were looking at clarity wise is an I1 (hopefully, although with EGL you never know). If you couldn't see the inclusions AT ALL with your eyes, I would be concerned that the stone might have some clouds or something that isn't easy to see but that could compromise the integrity of the stone. After all, it was rated an "Si3" for a reason...

Or else it could be a great stone with some easily hideable inclusions. Hard to tell without more info.

Did you get to see the cert on the one from the shop?

As for the other one you just posted, the only way to tell if it "faces up as big" is to compare the measurements. The one from the store is 5.89x5.87x4.43 and the one you just posted is 5.8 x 5.76 x 4.33. So the one from the store faces up bigger.
 

TravelingGal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
17,193
Date: 4/2/2007 4:41:42 PM
Author: pipeline010
wow! you guys and girls put up some great stuff while i was out shopping!!

ok, talk me out of this one:
i wanted to actually SEE some stuff for once, so I went to Steven Singer, a place on jewelers row in philly, and they showed me a setup i really liked.

Vintage band that i was nuts about. 18K white gold for 850ish. My lady would go kookoo for it. Wish I had a picture to show.
Now the stone. They gave me a long and repeated car-dealer speech about how rare it was to have such a stone for the price blah blah blah. They had no idea who they were dealing with.
But as far as looks it looked great and HUGE in the setting. Here''s the specs:
EGL cert.
Princess (and yes, unfortunately she''s locked on a princess)
Color H (in my opinion this sucker looked WHITE!)
Clarity SI3 (took a look through a loop and saw the mess; after i knew where to look I could spot some of them.)
No Fluor
No Culet
G/G polish sym
1.30 ct.
5.89x5.87x4.43
Depth-75.5%
Table-79%
Crown-10.2%
Pavilion-60.8%

Total setup price - $5100

Ok talk me out of this one cause it really did look great. Bottom line if I gave this to my lady-friend she would do a backflip (and she COULD, she''s a gymnast!). But I''m neurotic about spending money on anything, so I want to be sure my lady has true-value on her hand.

Can I do better??

(now to spend some time looking at all the great stuff you folks put up here while i was gone....)
OK, here''s a question for you...

Is she set on a princess or a squarish shape? In my naive days (and I''m thinking she may not be as researched you since she liked the I2 a lot) I thought "princess" was the same thing as square.

The reason I asked is that after doing my research, I wanted a smaller table and a chunkier looking stone with lots of fire. My 1.03 carat cushion faces up larger than the stone you posted above. Mine is an F/SI1, so if you went lower in color, you could probably find a pretty cost effective stone, especially if you don''t need the ex/ex polish/symmetry that some of us here like in a cushion.

Here is a pic of my stone in a Jeff Cooper setting which was made for a 6mmx6mm princess. Again, my stone is only 1.03 carats and faces up 6.10x5.90. It would be harder to find as cushions come in all shapes and sizes, but it can be done. The depth of my stone is 64%, hence the better spread. And this thing is firey. Not the best pic, but you get the idea how square cushions can appear if done in the right setting.

IMG_1168.JPG
 

pipeline010

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
11
yes, it seems that she is only interested in princess shape. We looked at some other shapes but she never seemed to get as excited as that Princess.

I''ve viewed all the ones posted here and even some of my own research. The one posted by ":)" looks like the front-runner to me. Awesome size, seems to face up enormous. Symmetry is a lil off, but i can deal with that. Color/Clarity perfectly low to allow a nice size kicker. I''m just hoping the fire and brilliance will be there as well.

http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-232294.htm

what''s the good word people? think we have a winner? I''m gonna call on this one and get some info (as it looks it seems they dont have this one in house.)
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Date: 4/2/2007 7:41:55 PM
Author: pipeline010
yes, it seems that she is only interested in princess shape. We looked at some other shapes but she never seemed to get as excited as that Princess.


I''ve viewed all the ones posted here and even some of my own research. The one posted by '':)'' looks like the front-runner to me. Awesome size, seems to face up enormous. Symmetry is a lil off, but i can deal with that. Color/Clarity perfectly low to allow a nice size kicker. I''m just hoping the fire and brilliance will be there as well.


http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-232294.htm


what''s the good word people? think we have a winner? I''m gonna call on this one and get some info (as it looks it seems they dont have this one in house.)

personally I don''t know anything about princesses. But I DO know that Whiteflash has a rep for telling you the truth about a stone they call in. If it''s bad, they''ll usually tell you to pass. So I would probably trust their judgement if you can''t see it yourself.
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
29,570
Since you''re close to Philly and to Dave Atlas, you can always have Whiteflash send the stone to his office, to be appraised. Best of both worlds really.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Two quick things about it. #1. Ask if it is eyeclean because it seems kind of cheap for what it is, so it might not be eyeclean. But considering whiteflash ranks it high, if they''ve seen it, it probably is. Could also be a reflection of the fact that it is not GIA or AGS certified which both carry a premium. That leads me to question #2...

#2. It is EGL certified, so just be aware that the real color might be lower than they''ve stated if you get it professionally appraised. Might not be, but could be. Clarity could be off as well.

Best of luck!
 

jayrenay9

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
704
Have you considered a halo around the princess? That''ll give her the size she is looking for and you might even get a double back handspring out of her! (My daughter is a gymnast too!)
 
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