Issue with tenants: what would you do?

[justginger]

Gah! How frustrating for you! I hope your diving equipment wasn't ruined. I would definitely let them know that they either caused, or could have caused, you to lose thousands of dollars of equipment, had your office carpet replaced, had the room professionally decontaminated, etc. Working in microbiology, with a husband in enteric, I know what sort of stuff is in that water. It's not to be taken lightly - it is a health risk. I would have a very strongly worded conversation (or letter) with them, let them know that if it happens again in the future, you intend to bill them for the entirety of the damages. But for this time, you'll let them off with a warning and the plumber's bill. Since this has happened in the past, I honestly feel like that's doing them a favor.

I am no expert, but I know how nasty that stuff is--even just from one college microbiology course. Yuck!!! Thank god all our floors are hard--tile and wood. And the sewage did not get on any furniture. I am super crazy and paranoid about cross-contamination, though. Just cooking chicken in my kitchen is an ordeal for me, so you can imagine my horror at dealing with raw sewage... I mopped the wood floors twice with antibacterial cleaner. and everything in the bathroom was cleaned several times over with a 30% bleach and scalding hot water solution. Then I mopped twice with our Bissell envirosteamer steam mop which heats water to boiling, and and is supposed to use that hot steam to sanitize. I used a clean mop head each time. I really hope that is enough to keep us from getting ecoli, giardia or Hepatitis!!!

You did an excellent decontam job -- don't fret about getting sick. That 30% bleach would have taken care of it all on its own, let alone the extra steam and antibacterial stuff! I'm impressed.

 

[tuffyluvr]

In the seventies and eighties, it seemed normal to flush tampons down the toilet.
I would never, ever do that now!
The practice of flushing tampons down the toilet is hopelessly out dated.

Really? Oh my. I've never NOT flushed tampons down the toilet. The oldest house I've lived in was built in the '20s, newest in the '90s. Flushed tampons in all of them. Just the tampons, not plastic applicators, of course.

edited to add: I don't even use tampons with plastic applicators!

I did too, for YEARS! My mom told me to! But we had an issue in an apartment building I lived in about 7 years ago and the landlord sent out a letter in regards to not flushing tampons and I have never done it since.

 

[tuffyluvr]

We own a duplex--we live in the owners unit downstairs and we rent the upstairs unit to a family. They are very nice people, and for the most part, good tenants. However, we have had several issues with them clogging the plumbing this year. First they clogged the sink by dumping a bunch of old pasta, rice and potato peels. Then we had to have a plumber out right before Christmas because our drains were running really slow--we never found out what caused that, so we can't be certain it was them, but we suspect it was because we are really neurotic about not putting stuff down the sink and toilet.

Today I woke up to the worst yet: it was like a sh!t avalanche in our bathroom! The bathtub and sink were filled with sewage water, and the toilet overflowed poopy water all over the bathroom floor and leaked into our office too. Worst of all, we went diving yesterday and because it rained last night, after we rinsed our scuba gear we put in the bathtub to dry off. Literally thousands of dollars worth of gear marinated in raw sewage.

When the plumber rootered the main line he found it clogged all the way to the street with paper towels, baby wipes and tampons--we NEVER flush those things. It took me 4 hours to clean up and decontaminate the terrible mess, plus the plumber was $130.

We have paid for the plumber the last 2 times, but we are thinking about charging the tenants for this one. We have had several conversations with them about being very conservative about what they flush--our house was built in 1922 and the plumbing is old and sensitive. Our concern is that unless we charge them they will not take this seriously. However, we know money is tight for them and we like them and want to keep them as tenants. We were going to offer to let them pay it off next month of even in a couple installments.

What would you do? Do you think it's outrageous to ask them to pay the bill??

Ugh. I'd never be able to use that reg again.

I think you'll have to check the wording on your lease and check what caveats you can put on their personal use of the bathroom legally in your area. Then inform them in writing what can and cannot be flushed, plus consequences of breaking this rule.
If you can legally get them to pay for some of this current damage, I would.
I would also investigate a plumbing update. And make sure you have some kind of decontamination professional look at your house.

Luckily there were no regs flooded with poo--just 3 BCDs. The octopus' (octopi?) had been washed out and hung to dry in the shed. We washed the BCDs with 10% bleach solution, which I'd supposedly enough to sanitize... But still... Ewwww

 

[tuffyluvr]

tuffy, I can't help you from a legal standpoint, but speaking as someone who got to fork over $5600 two weeks before Christmas for a new sewer line from the house to the street I can tell you this: (and your tenants need to know it also)
Nothing, and I mean nothing, should ever go down a toilet but human waste and toilet paper. It doesn't matter how new or old the house is or how fabulous the toilet is. Even Kleenex is a no-no.
This is probably worth spending some time and money with a lawyer, since things could really get ugly.

YIKES!!! What a nightmare! That is a huge expense for a not-fun-at-all repair

 

[tuffyluvr]

I would recommend getting a quote for updating the plumbing system. Arrange a formal meeting with your tenant. Tell them that due to the repeated plumbing catastrophes, you have decided to upgrade the plumbing system. Since this is a benefit for the tenants as well, you will be raising their rent.

No-can-do... We live in Los Angeles, and it's rent controlled :/ Asking them to move would cost us over $20k :O

 

[tuffyluvr]

Don't know how I forgot about this, but is it possible that you have clay pipes going to the city sewerage system and old large trees? We had plumbing problems with a house on a street that was developed in the 1950s. It turned out that tree roots were getting into cracks in the clay drain pipes and clogging them. One by one, every house on that street had to have their clay lines replaced! Fortunately for us, our drain went through the side yard and we didn't have to dig up a whole driveway; others were not so lucky!

edited to add: The plumber had to send a scope down to see the tree roots. It wasn't obvious just from rooting/clearing out the drain.

We actually had ALL the pipes rootered right before Christmas. Not sure about roots in this house--the house I grew up in had issues with the plumbing because we had several old eucalyptus trees on the property and they would grow into the pipes.

 

[LaraOnline]

Neurotic is not putting paper towels, baby wipes, and tampons in the bin. EVERYONE knows those things are not flushable, especially in an older house.

In the seventies and eighties, it seemed normal to flush tampons down the toilet.
I would never, ever do that now!
The practice of flushing tampons down the toilet is hopelessly out dated.

Regarding baby wipes, is says ON THE PACKAGING not to flush down the loo.

And as for paper towel...well that's just common sense, is it not?

Toilet paper is designed to fall apart within the sewage system.
Condoms, tampons and all other 'bodily waste' type products are not.

Simple.

I probably WOULD be letting your tenants know the details of the adventure, including the soiled carpet and the raw sewage sprayed all over your home. What kind of a mess did they have at their end?

And...I would probably get the plumbing looked at completely too. Maybe it's time for a plumbing upgrade.

They had no mess on their end... I spent 3--almost 4 hours cleaning up. My wages are about $40-45/hr, and that is NOT something I normally do. We had the plumber look into what we need to upgrade. It's about $3k, and we will. Be doing it, but not for a few months...

Imagine if you weren't living in your unit, but you had that rented out as well...what kind of costs and aggro would you have been up for?
eeek...

 

[LaraOnline]

In the seventies and eighties, it seemed normal to flush tampons down the toilet.
I would never, ever do that now!
The practice of flushing tampons down the toilet is hopelessly out dated.

Really? Oh my. I've never NOT flushed tampons down the toilet. The oldest house I've lived in was built in the '20s, newest in the '90s. Flushed tampons in all of them. Just the tampons, not plastic applicators, of course.

edited to add: I don't even use tampons with plastic applicators!

I did too, for YEARS! My mom told me to! But we had an issue in an apartment building I lived in about 7 years ago and the landlord sent out a letter in regards to not flushing tampons and I have never done it since.

A little bin with a lid attached; a little bin liner; some toilet paper to wrap the tampon up in - hey some people might even have a stash of brown paper bags...

Surely your tenants can get used to bagging and binning their stuff rather than flushing it?! You'll have to tell them to 'get with the times' lol.... good luck with this, but perhaps they've learned a lesson

ETA: you could hand them a little laminated note to stick above the toilet: 'Please only flush toilet paper down this loo. Other hygiene articles will block drains".

 

[webdiva]

Ugh! That sucks. Off topic, we had our pipes hydrojetted with a camera - it was awesome and buys another few years to save up to redo the pipes! $495. Art's hydro jetting. I'm in LA, too - Madelise can put you in touch with me!

 

[tuffyluvr]

Neurotic is not putting paper towels, baby wipes, and tampons in the bin. EVERYONE knows those things are not flushable, especially in an older house.

In the seventies and eighties, it seemed normal to flush tampons down the toilet.
I would never, ever do that now!
The practice of flushing tampons down the toilet is hopelessly out dated.

Regarding baby wipes, is says ON THE PACKAGING not to flush down the loo.

And as for paper towel...well that's just common sense, is it not?

Toilet paper is designed to fall apart within the sewage system.
Condoms, tampons and all other 'bodily waste' type products are not.

Simple.

I probably WOULD be letting your tenants know the details of the adventure, including the soiled carpet and the raw sewage sprayed all over your home. What kind of a mess did they have at their end?

And...I would probably get the plumbing looked at completely too. Maybe it's time for a plumbing upgrade.

They had no mess on their end... I spent 3--almost 4 hours cleaning up. My wages are about $40-45/hr, and that is NOT something I normally do. We had the plumber look into what we need to upgrade. It's about $3k, and we will. Be doing it, but not for a few months...

Imagine if you weren't living in your unit, but you had that rented out as well...what kind of costs and aggro would you have been up for?
eeek...

Oh, gawd! It would have been awful--we would have had to pay for a couple nights in a hotel and a cleaning crew at the least. I should feel lucky, yet... Somehow I don't ;P

But, yes, could have absolutely been worse!

 

[tuffyluvr]

Ugh! That sucks. Off topic, we had our pipes hydrojetted with a camera - it was awesome and buys another few years to save up to redo the pipes! $495. Art's hydro jetting. I'm in LA, too - Madelise can put you in touch with me!

Awesome! Will definitely look into it... FI is working more than full-time and he started grad school last semester and I'm starting a new job (and taking a pay cut to do something that I am more interested in), so buying time would be good right now. We've had some unforeseen expenses recently, plus we've got a big family vacation in a few months, so we will be short on time and money for a while... Spending money on household expenses is not nearly as much fun as spending it on diamonds

 

[partgypsy]

I would definitely send them a letter, mailed or delivered in person that states, that only approved items is tissue paper in the toliet. No other items, including a) b) c) can be flushed down toliet, and that if any plumbing issues are caused due to misuse of plumbing facilities, they will be charged the cost of damages due to that misuse.

I mean it should be really obvious they should not be flushing those items (everyone knows not to flush those items!), but make it crystal clear and by presenting it this way hopefully they will never ever do it again. Also by presenting this way, they will know what they are doing is not considered normal wear or tear, etc.

 

[Octavia]

Check your city's website to see if there is anything similar to this that you could provide to the tenants along with the letter: http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/wtd/Education/ThingsYouCanDo/TalkTrash.aspx. I've seen these posted in restrooms in some businesses here, but there's no reason it couldn't be placed in a residence. Obviously, it would be better if you can find something from your actual location, though. Good luck, I hope you can get through to them because that is a disgusting problem.

 

[tuffyluvr]

You did an excellent decontam job -- don't fret about getting sick. That 30% bleach would have taken care of it all on its own, let alone the extra steam and antibacterial stuff! I'm impressed.

Thanks!!! That gives me some peace of mind--I'm not a neat freak at all, but I am a total *clean* freak! I have a procedure for ensuring that there is no cross contamination when I'm preparing meat in the kitchen, and I also have a procedure for decontaminating after I have prepared meat. We don't wear shoes in the house and I wash my hands like crazy!

 

[tuffyluvr]

I would definitely send them a letter, mailed or delivered in person that states, that only approved items is tissue paper in the toliet. No other items, including a) b) c) can be flushed down toliet, and that if any plumbing issues are caused due to misuse of plumbing facilities, they will be charged the cost of damages due to that misuse.

I mean it should be really obvious they should not be flushing those items (everyone knows not to flush those items!), but make it crystal clear and by presenting it this way hopefully they will never ever do it again. Also by presenting this way, they will know what they are doing is not considered normal wear or tear, etc.

I wish it was really obvious to people. We are going to put a letter together along with the plumber's bill.

 

[tuffyluvr]

Check your city's website to see if there is anything similar to this that you could provide to the tenants along with the letter: http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/wtd/Education/ThingsYouCanDo/TalkTrash.aspx. I've seen these posted in restrooms in some businesses here, but there's no reason it couldn't be placed in a residence. Obviously, it would be better if you can find something from your actual location, though. Good luck, I hope you can get through to them because that is a disgusting problem.

Thanks for this! It's helpful info--I'm going to see if the city of Los Angeles has a template.

 

[aviastar]

Talk about having your hands tied as a landlord! I don't know how anybody manages to do it without losing their sanity!

 

[tuffyluvr]

Talk about having your hands tied as a landlord! I don't know how anybody manages to do it without losing their sanity!

Because you get hit with huge fines if you break the rules! ;P

In California laws are strongly in favor of tenants--and things are even more complicated and crazy in rent controlled areas. Even if tenants aren't paying their rent, it's really hard to get them out, and if proper procedure isn't followed, the landlord will be slapped with fines. It takes at least 6 months and lots of paperwork and following proper bureaucracy to evict them.

 

[partgypsy]

http://www.slideshare.net/rebecca123456/pump-repair-flushable-wipes-is-the-convenience-worth-the-cost

I couldn't find something from the city of Los Angeles, but article from a repairman in Los Angeles.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Talk about having your hands tied as a landlord! I don't know how anybody manages to do it without losing their sanity!

Because you get hit with huge fines if you break the rules! ;P

In California laws are strongly in favor of tenants--and things are even more complicated and crazy in rent controlled areas. Even if tenants aren't paying their rent, it's really hard to get them out, and if proper procedure isn't followed, the landlord will be slapped with fines. It takes at least 6 months and lots of paperwork and following proper bureaucracy to evict them.

yep,6 months of free rent and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[tuffyluvr]

http://www.slideshare.net/rebecca123456/pump-repair-flushable-wipes-is-the-convenience-worth-the-cost

I couldn't find something from the city of Los Angeles, but article from a repairman in Los Angeles.

I'm on my phone and the article isn't viewable in mobile format but I'm absolutely going to read this tomorrow when I'm on my laptop, thank you!

 

[tuffyluvr]

Talk about having your hands tied as a landlord! I don't know how anybody manages to do it without losing their sanity!

Because you get hit with huge fines if you break the rules! ;P

In California laws are strongly in favor of tenants--and things are even more complicated and crazy in rent controlled areas. Even if tenants aren't paying their rent, it's really hard to get them out, and if proper procedure isn't followed, the landlord will be slapped with fines. It takes at least 6 months and lots of paperwork and following proper bureaucracy to evict them.

yep,6 months of free rent and there's nothing you can do about it.

Have you ever seen the movie Pacific Heights? Tenant issues at their worst!!!

 

[aviastar]

Talk about having your hands tied as a landlord! I don't know how anybody manages to do it without losing their sanity!

Because you get hit with huge fines if you break the rules! ;P

In California laws are strongly in favor of tenants--and things are even more complicated and crazy in rent controlled areas. Even if tenants aren't paying their rent, it's really hard to get them out, and if proper procedure isn't followed, the landlord will be slapped with fines. It takes at least 6 months and lots of paperwork and following proper bureaucracy to evict them.

I think the laws are skewed towards tenants in a lot of areas; we have an uncle who rented out the guest apartment on his property and ran into the eviction issue. Those people were professional cons- they knew the laws favored them and they just hopped from one place to the next getting evicted and never paying any rent to anyone. You would think that would be fraud or something they could be arrested for, but no, you evict them and that's the end of it, and they get to go do it again. Crazy!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Talk about having your hands tied as a landlord! I don't know how anybody manages to do it without losing their sanity!

Because you get hit with huge fines if you break the rules! ;P

In California laws are strongly in favor of tenants--and things are even more complicated and crazy in rent controlled areas. Even if tenants aren't paying their rent, it's really hard to get them out, and if proper procedure isn't followed, the landlord will be slapped with fines. It takes at least 6 months and lots of paperwork and following proper bureaucracy to evict them.

yep,6 months of free rent and there's nothing you can do about it.

Have you ever seen the movie Pacific Heights? Tenant issues at their worst!!!

no but my SIL owns a few rentals and i've heard some horror stories about their tenants. they go through the paper works to have them evicted then just before they leave their tenants "jack up" the property ...

 

[tuffyluvr]

@aviastar and DF:

Yeah--I've never lived anywhere else, but I totally buy it! Several of my friends also own multi-unit renta/investment properties and I have heard horror stories...

DF: I have a friend who is a property manager and he had to evict ppl from one of the units he was managing--before the tenants left they cut up the carpet and flushed as much as they could down to toilet!!! Destroyed the plumbing, carpets and flooded several rooms, ruining the sub-floor as well, yikes!!! Makes our tenants look positively angelic!