isreal egl diamond

[vinniedog]

Sorry for the noobie question. This may well be a mute point as I have already purchased the diamond. I bought a 1.12 carat brillian round with the following dimensions (directly off the egl report):

measurements: 6.76 - 6.73 x 4.02mm
total depth: 59.6%
table width: 62%
Crown Height: 13%
pavilion depth: 43%
girdle thickness: medium

polish: very good
symmetry: very good
culet: none

clarity grade SI1
graining: Nil
color grade: H
Fluorescence: none

Lab report #: 2326367433

From what I''ve been reading in this forum (which I really wish I wouldn''ve known about before I bought this diamond) is that w/ exception to the measurements, I should really downgrade the clarity and the color a few notches? Of course I''m a little sick to my stomach as I have always thought of myself as not quite the "sucker" as I feel right now. I bought it from what I thought was a "reputable" jeweler in the S.F. bay area and they have a pretty decent website: http://www.simayof.com I hate promoting their website now that I know better, but maybe someone has had good stories from them that can put me at ease. Also I they sent me an "appraisal" that shows the worth of the ring at about $2k more then what I bought it at...I''m assuming this is a bad sign too? Thanks for all comments.

 

[vinniedog]

bump

 

[pqcollectibles]

You may not have done so poorly as you are worrying. I ran the specs you gave thru the HCA. Your diamond scored 2.3, Vg/Vg/Vg/Ex, with the comment "Worth buying if the price is right". Angles are much more accurate than %'s. If angles were used, the actual score would probably be higher. Still, not a bad performer. Do you think it's sparkly?? And you have the look of a much larger carat weight stone.

You didn't say what price you paid, but I did a quick search of current inventory. If the color and clarity of the diamond are in fact as graded, a comparable diamond from a Price Scope Vendor would cost around $4500.

 

[vinniedog]

Thank you for replying pccollectibles. I'm happy with my diamond. My main concern tho is that it comes with a EGL report from Isreal, and per this forum, this is supposed to be not so good of a representation of my diamond. I've seen posts from various vendors on this forum that say "stay away from EGL reports from Isreal" and other posts regarding the US banning or making it illegal for diamonds to be shipped here w/ these reports. So you can imagine how I felt after finding out that my diamond has indeed been rated by the EGL of Isreal. I know that I should be "happy" if it sparkles and looks nice, but the reality of it is this: did I pay for a diamond based on ratings from an extremely "lenient" report? Did I get an H color diamond when it should've been rated as a "J"? Is the clarity really an SI2 instead of an SI1? I'm not angry or upset at this point, I just want to know what I have. I've purchased it and have no recourse, but I can't help but wonder if what I have is really what I have.

 

[valeria101]

This can't be THAT bad: I would not expect all grades to be off by "one or two nothches" (which is a huge variance) but rather at most one grade variation in either color or clarity, at worst both (which I already consider unlikely). The same stone graded twice at the same lab has a rather high probability to return with a different grade: this is no exact science. SO, getting a certificate form the most reputable lab only insures that no one will contest it - not that upon being submitted to any lab 100 times the stone will return with the same grade. If all diamond buyers live with this kind of uncertainty, no reason to be all that much more concerned.

If this is really a pain, why not show the stone to an appraiser? This is not all that expensive and exercise, after all. While precise grading is not posible on the mounted stone (and as per those said above), an appraiser could tell you if the potential variation of grades is a reason of concern - which I would not count on.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Of course, color and clarity will impact the value. The EGL Cert has an impact on the value. Because of EGL's lenient reputation, EGL graded diamonds tend to trade at a discount. EGL Israel is notoriously bad for their grading procedures, but people have bought diamonds with EGL Israel Certs that are right on the money. When you do get an accurately graded EGL Israel diamond, you have hit the jackpot of bargains. If the same diamond had a GIA or AGS Cert, the price would be markedly higher.

It is my understanding that 3 GGs must agree on the color and clarity rating of a diamond before the grades are assigned at the GIA. Rich Sherwood has a series of threads in the Guerilla Gemology Forum discussing grading. Most of the time, Independent Appraisers agree with GIA and AGS. On occassion, tho, an Independent Appraiser will find a stone that they feel was graded leniently or harshly by the GIA or AGS Cert Labs in color or clarity, or both. Even a GIA or AGS Cert does not guarantee that another, experienced GG won't see the diamond differently every time.

About your appraisal,.... It is not uncommon for the appraised value to be higher than the purchase price. In your case, $2000 is not outrageous. If the appraisal was triple what you actually paid, I would worry. Appraised values typically allow a buffer for replacement of like kind. Costs vary from area to area. You may loose the ring and need to replace it several years after purchase. The costs of the setting and diamond could have increased since the time the Vendor purchased. Lots of variables.

Val had a good suggestion. If you want to ease your mind about the grading, have the diamond independently appraised. Otherwise, just wear it and enjoy it. You are pleased with the performance, you enjoy looking at the diamond, and that's what really matters. Not some piece of paper.

 

[fire&ice]

Like the others have suggested, to ease your mind an independent appraisal may be in order.

That said, the cut isn't ideal - but doesn't look bad either. Your spread (the size appearance of a diamond) looks very good.

It all comes down to how much you paid.

 

[vinniedog]

Thank you both pccollectibles and fire&ice. I paid about $4500 for the diamond so I guess it's spot on. Again my main concern was not the diamond itself but the EGL report coming from Isreal. I guess if worse comes to worse it's only a grade off. It was just a scare to me reading all the posts concerning how bad the Isreal EGL was and that to stay away from them at all costs. With that said, my next diamond will definitely be a GIA cert diamond lol.

 

[heart prongs]

Hi = I just saw your post and wanted to let you know that I am overjoyed w/ my EGL International (I think Israel) diamond. It's an H SI 1, and very close in size to yours. People constantly comment on how clean, sparkly, and white it is. I don't know if we would have purchased an EGL online, but after seeing it, and now owning it for the past six months, I know my FI got a fabulous EGL. Regarding the appraisal -- mine appraised for nearly double. I'll never understand that. Just makes the insurance go up. Enjoy it! -- kl

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 2/25/2004 3:40:46 PM vinniedog wrote:



Again my main concern was not the diamond itself but the EGL report coming from Isreal. I guess if worse comes to worse it's only a grade off. It was just a scare to me reading all the posts concerning how bad the Isreal EGL was and that to stay away from them at all costs. ----------------

Well, the 'scare' is good in principle: not that having an EGL cert is bad, but many not-so honest sales would rather be made with week certs (non GIA, at least). So, if someone comes wiht just very little info on a stone and no info on seller, etc, the type of cert is one think that rises questions out of the three percentages and two grades available

!

There has been no study yet (nor I expect such a thing to be done) concluding that XXX% of EGL diamond are overgraded as compared to GIA's or any other lab. There was some post with professionals' impressions on what such a reliability mark could be, but it did not reach a clear cut conclusion (and I can't find it!). All in all, the price is right, and the grades are not likely to be established far off, as you concluded above. I surely understand your decission though!

All the best

 

[alexah]

Hi! I have an experience w an EGL Isreal stone.

I had it independently appraised post-purchase & these were the variations:
* It was one color grade lower than on the cert.
* It's girdle was thicker than on the cert.
* It had flourescence tho the cert said it did not.

I think that's about it. The stone was returned because, with all the above variations, we were better off starting over & getting what we wanted/paid for in the first place.

Having said that, it was a nice, sparkly stone w a good cut but I learned my lesson & swear by the GIA to get what you paid for.

Just my .02. Good luck & Congratulations!

 

[PlatinumDiamond]

My experience with EGL-European graded diamonds was a good one for me!

My two diamonds I purchased (one at .56c and the other at .58c and both being D colorless with a VS2 clarity) came with The EGL European mini-certificates and I had the two looked at by a few professional trained jewelers/appaisers and they ALL agreed with the EGL grading reports. One of the jewelers that looked at the set closely was a GIA diamond graduate and did mention that EGL Isreal is very inconsistant with their grading of diamonds and he was somewhat surprised that mine were graded accurately. He told me I was a lucky one with this, but he has seen accurate grading done from EGL Isreal before, just not as often as GIA or AGS. Even if the grading would have been off a tad, I still would have been okay because the price I paid for the two was a very good price.

 

[aljdewey]

Well, this is enlightening. I understand now why you reacted so strongly to my comments in the other thread.




As everyone's pointed out, the diamond sounds lovely. Regarding the independent appraisal comments.....I'd only get one 1) if you expect the diamond to be off by more than 1 color/clarity grade (in which case you might be able to make a case for misrepresented goods), or 2) if you really need the peace of mind.




The problem on the peace of mind thing....what if it turns out to be a bit less than you expected? You'll feel worse and have no recourse. I'm not sure that's a great idea.




Totally your call, though - you have to know what you can live with. The good news is .....you LIKE the diamond, and that's really what's important here. Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[frugal]

did I pay for a diamond based on ratings from an extremely 'lenient' report? Did I get an H color diamond when it should've been rated as a 'J'? Is the clarity really an SI2 instead of an SI1? I'm not angry or upset at this point, I just want to know what I have. I've purchased it and have no recourse, but I can't help but wonder if what I have is really what I have.

Bottom line is you won't know unless you get an appraisal. Don't know how much one costs where you are at, but at this point it might be worth the time and cost just so you simply know. I think not knowing is worse than finding out . . . and who knows, you might be pleasantly surprised that things are just fine.

If you decide to do one, please let us know how it turns out. And, I will keep my fingers crossed that your appraisal matches the cert completely.