Is this something you would consider? Antique Ring Question

[heyjudes]

In our quest for the perfect antique cut diamond, my BF and I came upon a antique ring, also set with the original antique stone. Based on the information provided to us by the store, the diamond is an Old European Cut Diamond, between 1.05-1.15ct determined based on a formula. They have a certified GIA graduate gemologist as part of their staff who estimates the stone is GIA color L and GIA clarity I1.

It looks like a beautiful ring, but there''s a catch - there are 2 chips in the diamond - one underneath the prong, one between prongs. However, I am told that the chips are NOT visable with the naked eye but are visible under 10x magnification.

The store where this ring is located is about a 3 hour drive from where we live, so if it''s worth it, we will definitely take a drive down to check the ring out in person. The key is we don''t want to waste 6 hours driving if we know it''s not worth it from the start.

Is this something we should consider? And if so, what do we need to take into consideration?

 

[kenny]

A diamond with two chips, no lab report, and the seller claims it is an L I1?

I hope is is very very inexpensive.
May we know the price?

 

[heyjudes]

Date: 4/10/2010 2:25:56 PM
Author: kenny
A diamond with two chips, no lab report, and the seller claims it is an L I1?


I hope is is very very inexpensive.

May we know the price?

$2,500

It was my understanding accurate reports would be hard to get for stones in their original settings. Am I mistaken?

 

[kenny]

GIA and AGS will only grade loose stones.

I'm no appraiser, but I feel it is way overpriced unless perhaps it is a very high end brand and the setting has substantial value.

 

[heyjudes]

Date: 4/10/2010 2:31:02 PM
Author: kenny
I'm no appraiser, but I feel it is way overpriced unless perhaps it is a very high end brand and the setting has substantial value.

Setting is 14K (marked) and a pretty filigree mounting, but not a brand.

 

[stci]

Little chips are frequent on OEC diamonds.

Would like to know if the gemologist estimate the stone to I1 because the chips or if the diamond is really included.

Many OEC diamond are I1 cause they have tiny chips but they are beautiful and really clean.

Ask to the gemologist. It''s important!

The L color may face up really white when we talk about OEC.

 

[PumpkinPie]

I second the idea of actually speaking to the gemologist if possible before driving there.

 

[zhuzhu]

Date: 4/10/2010 9:16:57 PM
Author: Maevie
I second the idea of actually speaking to the gemologist if possible before driving there.

I third that!
Prepare a list of questions, and ge the gemologist and answer all your concerns before driving.
Why don''t you also ask for pictures? If you get them and post here, we can be much more helpful with our opinions.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 4/10/2010 2:22:39 PM
Author:heyjudes
In our quest for the perfect antique cut diamond, my BF and I came upon a antique ring, also set with the original antique stone. Based on the information provided to us by the store, the diamond is an Old European Cut Diamond, between 1.05-1.15ct determined based on a formula. They have a certified GIA graduate gemologist as part of their staff who estimates the stone is GIA color L and GIA clarity I1.

It looks like a beautiful ring, but there''s a catch - there are 2 chips in the diamond - one underneath the prong, one between prongs. However, I am told that the chips are NOT visable with the naked eye but are visible under 10x magnification.

The store where this ring is located is about a 3 hour drive from where we live, so if it''s worth it, we will definitely take a drive down to check the ring out in person. The key is we don''t want to waste 6 hours driving if we know it''s not worth it from the start.

Is this something we should consider? And if so, what do we need to take into consideration?

I would not trust an in house appraisor from any jewelry store, they are usually subjective and trying to make a sale.
I would get many photographs, especially backlit macro closeups of it and post here so we can give you a lot of comments. If the vendor can do this it may save you a trip.
Further I would suggest checking if they have a good return policy and if so, shipping the stone to you to be viewed by your own chosen independant appaisor and make the sale dependant on the stone passing the inspection of yourself and your appraisor.

 

[heyjudes]

Thanks everyone!

I was able to get some pics from the store. Will post them for everyone''s review.

 

[heyjudes]

Another one

 

[heyjudes]

Back view..

 

[heyjudes]

Back and slightly tilted.

 

[heyjudes]

Front Tilted View

 

[heyjudes]

Side Tilted View

 

[heyjudes]

And finally, side view.

 

[heyjudes]

Date: 4/10/2010 7:41:15 PM
Author: stci

Would like to know if the gemologist estimate the stone to I1 because the chips or if the diamond is really included.


Many OEC diamond are I1 cause they have tiny chips but they are beautiful and really clean.

Their gemologist said he would grade the diamond an I1 even without the chips in the girdle.

The salesperson is saying the diamond is eye clean with no visible inclusions.

I think it's pretty, but definitely not married (or even engaged) to it, so to speak.

I should pass, right?

 

[Rockdiamond]

There''s nothing in the price or description that sounds out of line to me, considering the price.
You''re generally not going to get a lot in the 1ct size range set into a decent ring, for that price.
If you like the photos, it''s probably worth the drive- even if you don;t end up getting it.

There is one phrase you used that does need clearing up though...GIA does NOT certify gemologists. They do train them- but not guarantee the results.
My comment is not aimed to defame anyone- rather to clarify what seems to be a commonly stated misunderstanding.

 

[stci]

Date: 4/11/2010 3:05:59 PM
Author: heyjudes

Date: 4/10/2010 7:41:15 PM
Author: stci

Would like to know if the gemologist estimate the stone to I1 because the chips or if the diamond is really included.


Many OEC diamond are I1 cause they have tiny chips but they are beautiful and really clean.

Their gemologist said he would grade the diamond an I1 even without the chips in the girdle.

The salesperson is saying the diamond is eye clean with no visible inclusions.

I think it''s pretty, but definitely not married (or even engaged) to it, so to speak.

I should pass, right?

For me, it''s the truth. The diamond is included + it has chips. The price reflect this anyway.

If you like it, go for it. If you have doubt pass on this one.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 4/11/2010 3:05:59 PM
Author: heyjudes

Date: 4/10/2010 7:41:15 PM
Author: stci

Would like to know if the gemologist estimate the stone to I1 because the chips or if the diamond is really included.


Many OEC diamond are I1 cause they have tiny chips but they are beautiful and really clean.

Their gemologist said he would grade the diamond an I1 even without the chips in the girdle.

The salesperson is saying the diamond is eye clean with no visible inclusions.

I think it's pretty, but definitely not married (or even engaged) to it, so to speak.

I should pass, right?

HI:

Chips are a clarity issue--given this statement above, it is possible the stone if graded by a lab might then be graded lower than an I1. This would effect the value. The ring appears very pretty in the picture. Is the dealer willing to negotiate? What is their return policy? Are you able to get a second opinion by an independant appraiser?

cheers--Sharon

 

[heyjudes]

Date: 4/11/2010 3:19:40 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
There''s nothing in the price or description that sounds out of line to me, considering the price.

You''re generally not going to get a lot in the 1ct size range set into a decent ring, for that price.

If you like the photos, it''s probably worth the drive- even if you don''t end up getting it.

So, basically you''re saying that for the price it''s reasonable. But on it''s own, the stone isn''t that great?

There is one phrase you used that does need clearing up though...GIA does NOT certify gemologists. They do train them- but not guarantee the results.
My comment is not aimed to defame anyone- rather to clarify what seems to be a commonly stated misunderstanding.

Sorry about that - that''s what the salesperson stated in their response. What should they be called?

 

[kenny]

The term certified or certificate implies endorsement, or putting GIA's name on what a person or a report states.

GIA itself did not grade this stone.
A person did who is a GG or Graduate Gemologist did.
That may sound the same but it is very different.
A GG means they took the GIA program and passed.
They do not work for GIA, they work for a jeweler now. (Follow the money, as they say.)

It is possible this GG is calling the stone one thing when they fully know that per GIA's grading criteria it is another because his/her boss is leaning on them to do so. (GIA will not even grade a diamond unless it is loose.)
I'm not saying this is what's happening.
I'm just pointing out that using the term certified is problematic here.

Just because the person is a GG does NOT mean the GIA is stating that this stone is graded as L I1.
Even a GIA report is careful to state it is not a certification or guarantee.

It may seem like we are splitting hairs here but is it an important distinction when zillions of dollars ride on grades.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 4/11/2010 3:40:52 PM
Author: heyjudes

Date: 4/11/2010 3:19:40 PM

Author: Rockdiamond

There''s nothing in the price or description that sounds out of line to me, considering the price.


You''re generally not going to get a lot in the 1ct size range set into a decent ring, for that price.


If you like the photos, it''s probably worth the drive- even if you don''t end up getting it.

So, basically you''re saying that for the price it''s reasonable. But on it''s own, the stone isn''t that great?

There is one phrase you used that does need clearing up though...GIA does NOT certify gemologists. They do train them- but not guarantee the results.

My comment is not aimed to defame anyone- rather to clarify what seems to be a commonly stated misunderstanding.

Sorry about that - that''s what the salesperson stated in their response. What should they be called?

No need at all to apologize, it''s so very common that salespeople abuse that term- I think we can''t correct this sort of thing often enough.
IMO a better way of saying it might be- we have a GIA trained gemologist on staff.
Or
We have a GG on staff

In terms of the price- and my comments:
I think the available choices in that price range, for 1ct plus stones is limited.
If you see the ring, and really love it- and can buy it with a money back guarantee, it might be a good deal for you- however I can''t say for sure that it is without seeing it in person.
The money back guarantee will allow you to get an independent appraisal, as well as seeing how you love the ring after living with it a few days.

Even though there''s not a lot of 1ct stones in this range, don;t let yourself be talked into it on that basis.
Yet another reason I''d insist on a money back guarantee- that will take a lot of pressure off you at the point of sale.

 

[kenny]

It's a very pretty ring.
I like it.
If it was me, I'd offer them half, with a 30-day full money back guarantee in writing, and see what they say.
All they can do is say no.

Then again, now that you know all you've learned in this thread, if you love it, it is worth $2500 TO YOU, and you simply MUST have it just go buy it.
I just suspect you have reservations.

 

[Rockdiamond]

If you really don''t want the ring, use Kenny''s suggestion- of course in that case, why bother to drive 3 hours.

A 7 day money back should be sufficient- even a 3 day might serve this purpose.

Negotiating can''t hurt.
However if you make such a low offer ( half) it might give the seller the idea you are not serious.
Others might feel differently, but I personally don;t think it''a good tact.

 

[kenny]

You don''t know how motivated the seller is.
They may accept half.

If not offer more.

Negotiating is not a crime unless you use a gun.

 

[heyjudes]

I think I will keep on my search for a better quality stone. I have an appointment with Old World this week and am going to visit another estate jeweler to check out their inventory, some items have shown promise.

Of course, anything that I am interested in that doesn't have an accompanying report will have to pass an independent appraisal.

Out of curiousity - in the world of antique stones, is it possible to get deals? Or is it pretty much you get what you pay for?

 

[Rockdiamond]

True Kenny, it''s not crime.... but successful negotiating may be better accomplished if you don''t use a sledgehammer.

$1250 for such a ring, from a jewelry store seems way low to me.......

If it was me, and I decided to drive the three hours, I might nicely ask if you could buy it for $2000.
I suppose it''s a matter of style- maybe Kenny''s right and they will accept $1250......

 

[heyjudes]

Actually, the item was listed at $2900 originally and just by sending an email it was offered to me at $2500.

Seems like Kenny''s negotiating style is a bit like my father''s. LOL.

 

[Rockdiamond]

You might as well give the sledgehammer technique a try!