Is this ruby worth a <1ct. recut?

[VividRed]

Hello friends,

I would like to ask for your advice on a little 1.01ct. ruby I found on Gemrockauctions.com
. I know this platform is not for the very best only and tends to attracts all sorts of vendors but I found what might be a little bargain - until someone snatches it before I do, but I am willing to take the risk

Here it is - https://www.gemrockauctions.com/auc...vid-pigeons-blood-red-ruby-mogok-burma-881849

As well as a link to a youtube video -

My take:
- nice color
- clarity is hard to judge but apart from a little blue core I don’t see anything too bad
- untreated burmese with Bird’s blood pedigree from GRS which, for once, I almost agree with
- the cut is beyond atrocious so it will need to be recut but since it is at 1.01 it will of course go below 1ct.
- brilliance, on picture, is bad. Maybe recutting it will fix it

The reason I am considering it is the price, which at 1k/ct. is low enough to consider recutting it.

Any thought? Advice? Views?

Thank you all and have a wonderful weekend

VRed

 

[voce]

I would be very suspicious. I bought a 2.22ct red spinel that I recut because the facets were wonky and it was too shallow, and it was absolutely top color and came from Mogok. However, the reason it was priced like was because of the inclusions, which made the girdle crumble during the recut. Why would the owner still it to you, and not recut it himself of herself for a higher profit? I suspect inclusions would be the reason.

Edit: after viewing the video, I can confirm that it's very included and probably not recuttable. The camera angle seems to be minimizing the view of the inclusion, but I see a long dark inclusion near the surface that looks concerning.

 

[chrono]

Too included to risk it.

 

[VividRed]

Hi @voce, thank you for your insights and sorry to hear your spinel did not survive the recut!

I think the seller is acting in good faith and since the price stabilizes at 1ct. and the color is good, he doesn’t need to recut. I don’t think he could profit much either way, I doubt he could have it recut with less than 20% weight loss (or worse) so probably not worth the risk for him.

I look at it as a “just for fun” type of thing.

However, I know nothing about cutting so I won’t comment further and will leave others to do so

Cheers!

 

[VividRed]

Too included to risk it.

Thank you Chrono. I asked the seller to send me macro pictures and I will share here as soon as I receive them!

 

[T L]

Just because GRS says it’s “pigeon blood,” does not mean it’s great color. Nor does a Burma pedigree mean it’s a great stone. GRS seems to be a bit generous with their metaphors. But say for instance it does have gear color in real life, then no, I would not cut it. Rubies below a carat are dramatically less valuable, even if it’s 99 points.

From what I see, the color in the video is purplish with some brown. Does it even fluoresce?

 

[VividRed]

Just because GRS says it’s “pigeon blood,” does not mean it’s great color. Nor does a Burma pedigree mean it’s a great stone. GRS seems to be a bit generous with their metaphors. But say for instance it does have gear color in real life, then no, I would not cut it. Rubies below a carat are dramatically less valuable, even if it’s 99 points.

From what I see, the color in the video is purplish with some brown. Does it even fluoresce?

You are right @T L , the paper is not a guarantee and I agree that GRS is often generous with PB’s grading. It must fluoresce strongly though, GRS would not grade it as PB if it didn’t (or it would add a comment, as it does with some iron-rich rubies from mozambique).

But, the stone costs 1k (or a little more, it’s still being bid on) and a nice sub-carat untreated ruby can’t be worth much less than that. Or can it?

Besides, I would rather have a beautiful 0.75 than a poorly cut 1.01. The real question is whether or not it is worth the risk and from what I read it doesn’t seem to be the case

 

[minousbijoux]

I think the color is fine, but there is a HUGE inclusion that is quite visible and large. That stone would not be considered eye clean and given its position, I sincerely doubt a recut could eliminate it. So you'd end up having a subcarat ruby eye visibly included. For $1,000, I'd pass, think you can do better.

 

[arkieb1]

Dude, for $1000US a lot of the long time CS members here could find you a .75 or whatever it ends up being decent ruby, that's the point. If you are after a small unheated Burma ruby look for Antique pieces, just check they aren't synthetics. If the stones shatters you are out of pocket the full amount if it ends up being .50 carats it will also not be worth the effort. It's the unknown variables that are the issue. You should either like and accept the stone as is or buy something that doesn't need a recut.

 

[VividRed]

Dude, for $1000US a lot of the long time CS members here could find you a .75 or whatever it ends up being decent ruby, that's the point. If you are after a small unheated Burma ruby look for Antique pieces, just check they aren't synthetics. If the stones shatters you are out of pocket the full amount if it ends up being .50 carats it will also not be worth the effort. It's the unknown variables that are the issue. You should either like and accept the stone as is or buy something that doesn't need a recut.

Well this is the whole point of the discussion, isn’t it? With this cut the stone is worthless so clearly I won’t buy it to keep it as-is. I would be very interested in seeing a 0.75 ruby with great color, brilliance and clarity for that money. I’m serious, I’ve been looking around for a while and haven’t found anything worth a look at that price.

Anyway, seems like nobody would go for a recut so I’ll leave it where it is

Peace

 

[Nosean]

The blue core is typical for a ruby from Mong Hsu - Myanmar too but not Mogok.

GRS report says Burma (Myanmar) but neither Mogok nor Mong Hsu.

Mong Hsu rubies are nearly always high heated and nearly always with Borax -so a certified unheated is really rare - for a collector like me always nice but the price is to high imo.

https://www.gia.edu/doc/Rubies-from-Mong-Hsu.pdf

Recut - no...

 

[VividRed]

The blue core is typical for a ruby from Mong Hsu - Myanmar too but not Mogok.

GRS report says Burma (Myanmar) but neither Mogok nor Mong Hsu.

Mong Hsu rubies are nearly always high heated and nearly always with Borax -so a certified unheated is really rare - for a collector like me always nice but the price is to high imo.

https://www.gia.edu/doc/Rubies-from-Mong-Hsu.pdf

Recut - no...

Nosean, your comment about Mong Hsu was the first thing I told the vendor (who still claims the ruby is from Mogok, which I don’t believe). My avatar is an unheated ruby from Mong Hsu with a similar blue core - not an inclusion.

 

[Nosean]

Unheated Mong Hsu ruby is fine - love your avatar.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Just resurrecting an old thread...do people reckon it’s possible to recut this round ruby to oval to increase depth, while keeping the weight above 1carat, in order to bring out some fire and brilliance to the centre table? As it is, the face is quite full due to depth being only 54%, shame given base colour is really good.

Loose Ruby - Round 1.41 Ct. - #R10070 | The Natural Ruby Company

One beautiful transparent 1.41 carat round shape red ruby with dimensions of 6.70 x 6.65 x 3.59 mm. It has a mixed brilliant cut, and a clarity grade of eye clean (evaluated at eye level), vivid color intensity, and an excellent polish. The origin of this ruby is Burma (Myanmar).

thenaturalrubycompany.com

 

[voce]

Just resurrecting an old thread...do people reckon it’s possible to recut this round ruby to oval to increase depth, while keeping the weight above 1carat, in order to bring out some fire and brilliance to the centre table? As it is, the face is quite full due to depth being only 54%, shame given base colour is really good.

Loose Ruby - Round 1.41 Ct. - #R10070 | The Natural Ruby Company

One beautiful transparent 1.41 carat round shape red ruby with dimensions of 6.70 x 6.65 x 3.59 mm. It has a mixed brilliant cut, and a clarity grade of eye clean (evaluated at eye level), vivid color intensity, and an excellent polish. The origin of this ruby is Burma (Myanmar).

thenaturalrubycompany.com

I would not do it. If you are looking to keep it above 1 ct, it would likely go from a larger window to a smaller window. The part where the color looks nice is actually the window. The rim where there's no window, actually looks too dark to me. So it might actually look worse after the recut.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I don't think the stone would fall apart from recutting. Sapphires normally don't have issues even with a very heavily included stone. But I to think to cut it to good performance, you would end up loosing half the weight.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

No wonder people haven’t bought it yet with plans to re-cut.

 

[PrecisionGem]

In almost every case, the reason a stone has a window is because it's cut too shallow. Normally it's a step cut, and the last tier or last two or sometime even three tiers of facets are cut too low an angle. To fix this you would need to add more stone, which of course is not possible. So the whole proportion of the stone needs to be changed so even the outline needs to be reduced to get the correct proportions.

Stones that are good candidates for a recut are ones with deep pavilions, but still have the last tier or two cut too low an angle. This type of stone are we what cutters look for and buy to recut. But these are not common, most often the stones are just too shallow, and the loss in weight too great to make sense.