Is this diamond worth it?

[The_Running_Realtor]

I am in the market for a round stone. I am looking for something 1.15-1.30 G, SI1. To me the color and fire of the stone is the most important. I will sacrifice clarity if I had to choose. I also am looking to trade a Platinum Martin Flyer Semi-Mount (E VS1 .60) that has not center stone but is a gourgeous setting. I paid $2300 for it from Solomon Bros in Atlanta 3 years ago and never had a stone set into it. I have an appraisal from them for $3695. I also have a trillion stone (2.0 E VS1). I want to trade both towards the round stone that I am looking for. I realize that the Martin Flyer is a specialty setting and is going to be hard to sell so I have been checking to see if any of my local jewlers would be interested in taking towards trade credit. I have been talking to a place that has a large inventory and is interested in both my pieces as trade credit towards a stone. They have offered $3000 credit for both. I am somewhat ok with that if the price of the stone is good. They are very familiar with this site and said they would match or beat any price online for a like stone. I looked at several stones in their inventory and found one that I really like. It really looks fantastic. I looked at others that had better clarity but they simply did not look as nice IMO. I do not have all the parameters but wanted to see if the price was in the balpark of where it should be. He told me the stone is an "Ideal Cut". I do not know if this is something that is verifiable or measurable. I do have a few of the particulars but not the table, girdle, etc. I think he would give it to me if I asked. If was not pressuring at all, and in fact said to pick the one out I liked, go do some shopping and let him know what I found. I asked him if all his stones were certified and he said no, but that I was welcome to take anything I was interested in to an outside resource to have it certified and appraised. He made me feel pretty comfortable but I am just not sure about the price. The sticker on the ring said $9300 but that he could come down to $5200 and with my trade I would owe only $2200+ tax, etc for the difference. I love to haggle but want to make sure I have my ducks in a row when doing so. Here are the specs that I have on the stone I am considering.

Round
1.20 Ct
G
SI2
6.88 x 6.94 x 4.14
$5200

I do not have any other specs on it, but it looks very, very nice. I was suprised at the clarity rating as I really could not see many, if any inclusions. I did not look at it through a loop.

I would normally shop around more, but this place is interested in my trades, which most are not. My next place would be D Geller and sons as I know they like to hammer with the sales pressure. That does not bother me. Does anyone have any initial thoughts on the round stone and it''s pricing? Should I ask him for all the specs on the stone to help make a more educated decision...is his price AT LEAST in the right ballpark, price-wise? He kept reiterating that the stone was an Ideal Cut. I am not sure what that meant, other than it was very nice looking.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MWG]

Are you saying that you COULD SEE INCLUSIONS in the stone without a LOUPE!!?? If so, Deal Breaker for me!!

Ideal cut - Is a revelant term....... and the BUZZ WORD in diamonds. If it is IDEAL, how come he does not give out the information on the diamond? Yes, he should give you all the information you need.

MWG

 

[neatfreak]

We really can''t tell you whether the stone will perform or not based on those numbers alone. We need EVERYTHING.

If you want to check out the prices yourself, you can do so above in the PS bar. Under PRICES you can click on "search by cut". Enter the specs of the round you''re considering, and out will pop the prices of PS vendors on similar stones.

And IDEAL isn''t something regulated, so be very very careful before proceeding. Get all the numbers, bring them back here, and plug them into the HCA tool (above under TOOLS) to make sure it''s a good performer first.

 

[BigDiamonds]

I''m no expert, but I''ll give my input!

Definitely as for the other measurements. That''s the only way to really know the light performance of the stone. You need:
Depth %
Table %
Crown angle
Pavillion angle
Also, see if you can view the stone in natural light, away from the jewelers lights that make everything look good. Of course, without a reputable cert I would have indpendently appraised before making a final commitment.

Additionally, I would suggest that you take a look at the stone through a loupe and see if that changes your opinion about the clarity. When I started looking I could hardly see anything, but once I started louping diamonds it seemed like inclusions popped up out of nowhere to my naked eye.

As for the price, it''s hard to judge without a really good feel of the cut. However, if the cut is good, I think the $9,300 price is just slightly high and the $5,200 price is suspiciously low. Here is a comparable stone from WF (SI1 instead of SI2), and another one from GOG.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 6/23/2007 7:29:21 PM
Author:The_Running_Realtor
I looked at several stones in their inventory and found one that I really like. It really looks fantastic.

The point noted above is important of course, which would leave it to a question of valuation...and I think, compared to comparable here, you''re at least close. Same criteria broadly here...$5000 give or take $1500. If compared to only non-AGS or GIA certs (do you know if this one has none?), then make it $4500, give or take $1000. It would be somewhat lower with no cert.

Ideally, you''d at least compare this option to a credentialed "ideal," i.e., maybe an AGS0, which he should be able to get in, if only for fun, but also, for comparative purposes...regarding the "look." Otherwise, maybe you''re close to home...

 

[The_Running_Realtor]

MWG..quick question....if a stone is SI2 wouldn''t it be somewhat normal to see at least SOME inclusions without a loupe? I would have to go up in clarity to SI1 or even VS1 to get to a stone that I could not see any inclusions with the naked eye...then I would have to either buy a smaller diamond, or go down in color. That is why I mentioned that in my budget I tried to prioritize the factors that were most important..size & color, then clarity. I definitely undertand what you are saying, however....

I will try to get more info on the stone. One other question, if the stone is NOT certified, would they still have the other parameters, such as table, girdle, etc?

 

[neatfreak]

You can get SI2 stones that are eyeclean from the face up position. Even easier is getting SI1 stones that are eyeclean.

So it IS possible.

 

[The_Running_Realtor]

Thanks everyone... I have emailed the sales manager that I was dealing with and asked for:

Depth %
Table %
Crown Angle
Pavillion Angle

I will say that it was refreshing to deal with someone that is not hard selling you all the time, and I was equally impressed by the fact that I was ready pull the trigger if I wanted to but they said to not make a rush decision, go shop around, learn more about diamonds and then they would be there when I was ready to crunch numbers.


One last question. I have mentioned that I am buying a trillion from a friend. He did not remember how much he paid for this pendant but guessed it was in the $5K-$6K range. I do not know for sure what the specs are but have had two different places they guessed it was about 2 carats, e-f color with no visible inclusions, they said it was very nice, needed to be cleaned but was obviously a very odd shape. My buddy knows I am on a tight budget and said he was not doing anything and that I could have it for $1000. I told him I would most likely not use it in a setting as it was an unusual shape for an engagement ring and would he be ok if I sold it or traded it towards something else. He said he did not care. He owns two businesses and is certainlky not hurting for money..he is a very nice guy. I would hate to trade this stone for only $1500 credit if it is worth significantly more...should I look around and see if there is a market for it or be happy that I am getting $500 more than I paid for it and move on?

Thanks again for any feedback.

TRR

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/23/2007 8:57:48 PM
Author: The_Running_Realtor
Thanks everyone... I have emailed the sales manager that I was dealing with and asked for:


Depth %

Table %

Crown Angle

Pavillion Angle


I will say that it was refreshing to deal with someone that is not hard selling you all the time, and I was equally impressed by the fact that I was ready pull the trigger if I wanted to but they said to not make a rush decision, go shop around, learn more about diamonds and then they would be there when I was ready to crunch numbers.



One last question. I have mentioned that I am buying a trillion from a friend. He did not remember how much he paid for this pendant but guessed it was in the $5K-$6K range. I do not know for sure what the specs are but have had two different places they guessed it was about 2 carats, e-f color with no visible inclusions, they said it was very nice, needed to be cleaned but was obviously a very odd shape. My buddy knows I am on a tight budget and said he was not doing anything and that I could have it for $1000. I told him I would most likely not use it in a setting as it was an unusual shape for an engagement ring and would he be ok if I sold it or traded it towards something else. He said he did not care. He owns two businesses and is certainlky not hurting for money..he is a very nice guy. I would hate to trade this stone for only $1500 credit if it is worth significantly more...should I look around and see if there is a market for it or be happy that I am getting $500 more than I paid for it and move on?


Thanks again for any feedback.


TRR

Honestly? Something is fishy about buying a 2 ct. E somewhere in VS or VVS range for $5k. Unless he bought it years and years ago, it sounds really fishy.

Have you had it appraised? Or just a guess from a jeweler? I personally would have it appraised before buying it so you know what you're getting into. You want to make sure it's not a CZ/Moissanite or something like that...

 

[enbcfsobe]

In terms of price, that seems like a lot for an uncerted stone. For 500 bucks more, you could have an AGS000 stone at G SI2...and you''d be working with a vendor who could tell you if this stone would be considered eye clean face-up.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131&item=997664

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree, something fiishy about someone selling a trillion 2 ct. stone for $1000. Wouldn''t consider it without an appraisal. Also, I wouldn''t consider the round stone from the jeweler unless it is GIA or AGS certified If it is not, then I''d bet money that it is I1 and not SI2, and probably a lower color, too. I''d almost rather see you just sell the old setting on ebay and take that money and apply it toward a really good diamond.

Or, if this trillion is on the up and up, maybe it could be recut to be a better shape for an e-ring!

 

[The_Running_Realtor]

I know for 100% that there is nothing fishy about this guy selling his stone for a low amount. He owns two businesses and I know him through real estate transactions and also know his fiance very well..she is a realtor in the same brokerage that I am in. He simply has more cash than he knows what to do with (I wish I had that problem). The trillion was the ex-wifes and I think that is why he has no interest in keeping it. Lets say I spend the $80-$100 bucks and have it apprasied and it comes back at $6000-$7000 then what??? Someone mentioned having it re-cut..is that hard or expensive to do?

I know it was suggested to also spend $500 more and get a truly certified stone but it helps me a great deal to be able to trade my martin flyer setting towards the stone. If the jewler allows me to get it independantly certified and apprasied am I still at risk?

TRR

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think really good stones are usually sent to GIA or AGS because having the stone certified should bring more money. So I am skeptical of uncertified stones. I bought uncertified stones one time and it turned out they were not as represented. You generally get what you pay for.

I am glad the trillion stone is probably worth more than you''d pay. If it turns out to be worth several thousand dollars, then you can know that the jeweler who offered you $1500 is not honest. And I''d then probably just keep it and have it made into a pendant later. But you could post the stone on here and see if one of the diamond cutters would comment on whether it might could be recut.

 

[enbcfsobe]

I have no idea whether any PS vendors accept jewelry in trade, but it is worth calling to ask. Better yet, just have your jeweler call in some certed stones that have an AGS000 or GIA Excellent cut rating (though do read the threads on the fact that not every GIA EX is really a great performer by PS standards). The point of my post wasn't to buy that particular stone, but to that if you look in the G-I, SI1-SI2 range, you should be able to get a similar size/color/clarity in that price range that (1) has a cert and (2) is actually within the ideal cut parameters. There's very little point in using your trade-in to buy a bigger stone that ends up looking lifeless (which is what some poorly cut diamonds look like once you get them out from under the magical jewelery store lighting!!). I think most ladies here would pick a well-cut, even if not super-ideal, stone over a big poorly-cut one any day of the week.
If you have an independent appraisal -- ie: someone who does not sell jewelry (check under the resources tab), you would get more information and could make a more informed decision. Don't rely on an "appraisal" from your jeweler or anyone affiliated with your jeweler. If your appraiser has a Sarin machine or other measuring equimpment, he/she can give you the angles wer are asking about, and can also tell you what the color/clarity are. At the same time, if you pay for an appraisal (probably around $150, more if there isn't a good appraiser near you and you need to send it out) and the stone is nowhere near what the jeweler said, would you even still want to sell him your stone or buy one from him??

 

[MWG]

Date: 6/23/2007 7:44:13 PM
Author: The_Running_Realtor
MWG..quick question....if a stone is SI2 wouldn''t it be somewhat normal to see at least SOME inclusions without a loupe? I would have to go up in clarity to SI1 or even VS1 to get to a stone that I could not see any inclusions with the naked eye...then I would have to either buy a smaller diamond, or go down in color. That is why I mentioned that in my budget I tried to prioritize the factors that were most important..size & color, then clarity. I definitely undertand what you are saying, however....

I will try to get more info on the stone. One other question, if the stone is NOT certified, would they still have the other parameters, such as table, girdle, etc?

Well, yes and no on being able to see inclusions on an SI2 stone. I personally, would never buy a stone that I could see the inclusions in the stone with the naked eye. The reason being, is that they do have SI2 stones that are completely EYE CLEAN and they are beautiful.

You are spending thousands of dollars, why not get something that YOU and your lady can be truly proud of!!! I would hate to spend that much money for something and have someone make a comment that they think the diamond is not pretty and insult you.