Is this Asscher weird?

[Kelso51]

Hi Pricescopers,

I'm new here and hoping to tap into your knowledge to make a decision about a diamond my fiance and I are looking at.

I have done a lot of research on Asschers. I've learned:
1.) Better to see it before you buy it
2.)"Ideal Dimensions" are here: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/asscher-cut-diamond/

However, I'm having trouble finding the "Ideal" dimensions anywhere but BlueNile and Tiffany's. I've searched many online and B&A dealers.

I'm working with a few reputable local jewlers and the best looking stone I've seen is a

• 1.4ctw
  F VS1
  68.8% depth
  66% table
  5.97x6.16mmX I can't quite remember
  EX polish
  Ex symmetry
  no flourescence
  It has an extra facet (for reasons I'm not sure)

From what I can tell by looking at it, it has a relatively high table and the corners are cut fairly wide, and it has a bit more sparkle because of the extra facet (documented in the GIA report)

I'm werided out because it has an extra facet and because it's only prices at $10,900. My jewler is assuring me it's a wonderful cut. It looks beautiful to my untrained eye, but something just isn't jiving with all my research and I was hoping to get another opinion to round out my decision. Am I better off taking my chances and buying a Signature Ideal on BlueNile? Or is this stone a great deal?

Unfortunately they wouldn't let me have the paper work before hand so I can't post it here. But it is GIA cert.

Thanks sooooo much for your help and knowledge

 

[slg47]

Jon at GOG has sourced people asschers, perhaps try contacting them? I don't see anything similar to the specs you linked but if you call maybe they can bring some asschers in for you and take a video.

They also carry the Octavia Asscher, a branded cut (this one is priced slightly higher than the one you linked, but is an example
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/7263/)

 

[Kaleigh]

Jonathon at GOG will answer your asscher questions. I bought mine from him years ago, and am so very glad I had him help me in the process. Check out the Octavia, the designer was one who helped me pick my asscher... Good luck, let us know how it goes!!!

 

[kenny]

I'm a very picky diamond shopper and I would not be bothered at all by an extra facet.
It is just an additional facet polished onto the diamond that is not part of the intended cut pattern.
It is where they polished off something that was there - perhaps an inclusion, a chip or some of the original surface of the rough diamond.
No biggie IMHO.

If you can get the number of the GIA report you can use this link to verify the specs:

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm

I agree with Kaleigh and Sig that Jonathan at GOG is the go-to guy for Asschers.
I bought two from him, a beautifully cut standard asscher and later we bought that Octavia Asscher cut that the ladies mentioned.
We have been delighted with the cut of both, and GOG's service before and after the sale.
The Octavia is like a ball of fire - An astonishing cut!

I'm sure everyone here is getting tired of me posting it, but for new Accher shoppers I like to show what the Octavia Asscher looks like next to a well cut standard asscher.
FWIW, the Asscher on left is 2.26 ct and the Octavia on the right is 1.34 ct.

 

[slg47]

Kenny, I for one never ever get tired of seeing your amazing photos of those amazing diamonds!

 

[kenny]

Thanks Sig, still, I have to take some more for myself.
I'm getting tired of the sameo sameo.
Hijack over and out.

 

[yennyfire]

I would have a problem with a jeweler who refused to show me the paperwork on a stone. Like Kenny said, if you can get the GIA cert. # and the carat weight, you can look up the report yourself, so why the big secret?? I'd find another jeweler.

 

[clgwli]

I would have a problem with a jeweler who refused to show me the paperwork on a stone. Like Kenny said, if you can get the GIA cert. # and the carat weight, you can look up the report yourself, so why the big secret?? I'd find another jeweler.

I agree! It is one thing if the stone was sent out on memo and they don't have the paperwork on them to show you, but it is another thing if they *won't* show it to you. I'd not buy from someone like that.

 

[john gem]

Kenny, that is a fantstic photo! Well done, sir! I like the one on the right much better.

 

[Kelso51]

Wow Kenny. Both of the stones are BEAUTIFUL!!!

Thanks for all the input so far guys!

The jeweler showed me the GIA paperwork, but just didn't let me take a copy of it. I didn't realize that all I needed was the # to pull it up online. I committed as much as I could to memory though I've emailed them to ask for the number and will post as soon as I have it.

Given that it is GIA Cert and that these are the actual dimensions, I'm guessing the takeaway is that this is not a great buy (possibly not maximumizinb light return)?

I'm happy to start working with folks at GOG on the East Coast. Just want to feel sure I'm not walking away from something good.

Appreciate any thoughts

 

[kenny]

Wow Kenny. Both of the stones are BEAUTIFUL!!!

Thanks for all the input so far guys!

The jeweler showed me the GIA paperwork, but just didn't let me take a copy of it. I didn't realize that all I needed was the # to pull it up online. I committed as much as I could to memory though I've emailed them to ask for the number and will post as soon as I have it.

Given that it is GIA Cert and that these are the actual dimensions, I'm guessing the takeaway is that this is not a great buy (possibly not maximumizinb light return)?

I'm happy to start working with folks at GOG on the East Coast. Just want to feel sure I'm not walking away from something good.

Appreciate any thoughts

Thanks.

I'd never buy an asscher without a properly taken ASET pic. Period!
Depth and table numbers are not enough.
Asschers have 3 to 5 rows of facets on the pavilion and the angle of them is critical to the look and performance.
ASET is the best tool for evaluating Asschers.
I admit I am not an expert at interpeting ASET pics but others here are.

Defining well cut is controversial even for the round, where there is more agreement than with any other cut.
Rules of what make a well-cut Asscher are not clear.
Finding one that is well cut is not easy either.
That is why going with a branded cut like Royal Asscher or Octavia is nice and easy.
Every example must meet the strict parameters of the brand, so you know every one has "the look".

The vendor not allowing you to copy a report is odd, since all these online vendors post them.
Is the jeweler afraid someone is going to know there is a REAL diamond in their store?

 

[slg47]

Wow Kenny. Both of the stones are BEAUTIFUL!!!

Thanks for all the input so far guys!

The jeweler showed me the GIA paperwork, but just didn't let me take a copy of it. I didn't realize that all I needed was the # to pull it up online. I committed as much as I could to memory though I've emailed them to ask for the number and will post as soon as I have it.

Given that it is GIA Cert and that these are the actual dimensions, I'm guessing the takeaway is that this is not a great buy (possibly not maximumizinb light return)?

I'm happy to start working with folks at GOG on the East Coast. Just want to feel sure I'm not walking away from something good.

Appreciate any thoughts

It's really hard for us or anyone to advise you without pictures/videos/ASET images. If you're OK with G color and $700 more than the one you posted, I this Octavia (and it measures 6.23 x 6.21, so it is larger than the one you were looking at!) http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/7263/ Of course there are beautiful "regular" Asschers out there too!

 

[clgwli]

The question I have for you now is have you looked at this stone in all types of lighting? And if you have do you love it?

I take it you've looked at other asschers and this one stands out to you. I've looked at asschers a lot since I hope to get a set of earrings some day. But I am not a "pro" with them. I do know that from looking at other fancy shapes that the link you posted is good for guidelines but sometimes a fantastic stone will be found "outside the box". If you feel good about it then I wouldn't worry as long as you have a great return policy (just in case) and a trustworthy vendor.

I admit I am kind of shocked with how many people are saying to drop this stone and go see GOG. JMHO

 

[kenny]

The question I have for you now is have you looked at this stone in all types of lighting? And if you have do you love it?

...

I admit I am kind of shocked with how many people are saying to drop this stone and go see GOG. JMHO

Here we go again.
In the immortal words of Tina Turner, "What's love got to do with it?"
Nothing personal about this particular OP but what if the viewer is ignorant and/or has never seen a well-cut assher.
They won't know how the asscher they are being shown compares.
Anything any vendor puts under those clever jewelry store lights can incite "love".

What if they buy it but one day they learn more, or see a well cut one and learn theirs is not that great?
Too late.
They bought without getting educated and shopping intelligently.
They fell in love instead.

Why not pursue well cut?
Why not contact a vendor that does provide tools to evaluate cut, and has many happy asscher buyers here?
Bias that is the result of repeated good results is logical and wise.
Why be shocked that we recommend such a vendor?

 

[clgwli]

The question I have for you now is have you looked at this stone in all types of lighting? And if you have do you love it?

...

I admit I am kind of shocked with how many people are saying to drop this stone and go see GOG. JMHO

Here we go again.
In the immortal words of Tina Turner, "What's love got to do with it?"
Nothing personal about this particular OP but what if the viewer is ignorant and/or has never seen a well-cut assher.
They won't know how the asscher they are being shown compares.
Anything any vendor puts under those clever jewelry store lights can incite "love".

What if they buy it but one day they learn more, or see a well cut one and learn theirs is not that great?
Too late.
They bought without getting educated and shopping intelligently.
They fell in love instead.

Why not pursue well cut?
Why not contact a vendor that does provide tools to evaluate cut, and has many happy asscher buyers here?
Bias that is the result of repeated good results is logical and wise.
Why be shocked that we recommend such a vendor?

And the OP just said that they want to make sure they aren't walking away from something good.

That's why I said what I did.

Not everyone values what you value. End of story.

This thread bugged me after reading through the thread about Prosumers
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rockytalky-prosumer-guidelines.145983/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rockytalky-prosumer-guidelines.145983/[/URL]

Read it before you jump on me again please and maybe you'll understand why I posted what I did.

 

[Lula]

I remember that thread, too, clgwli. It sounds to me like the OP wants to know more about this stone's potential before considering other options, but i could be wrong. If that is the case, we should respect the OP's wishes. Though, Kenny, don't take my comments for one minute to mean that I'm advocating buying the stone based only on observation under the store's lighting -- far from it.

 

[clgwli]

I remember that thread, too, clgwli. It sounds to me like the OP wants to know more about this stone's potential before considering other options, but i could be wrong. If that is the case, we should respect the OP's wishes. Though, Kenny, don't take my comments for one minute to mean that I'm advocating buying the stone based only on observation under the store's lighting -- far from it.

That's how I read it too. And trust me I don't say just buy any crappy POS stone. Never have and never will.

Now if I am wrong, I will stand back and say "oops sorry OP and everyone else" I just thought the OP was looking for any real red flags on this stone.

 

[slg47]

OP, my apologies for not posting this first

It's really hard for us or anyone to advise you without pictures/videos/ASET images.

before recommending an online vendor. I should have stated that initially, and I apologize.

 

[Kelso51]

You have all been amazing. Thanks so much for your honest advice and concern!

My takeaway is I'm going to be patient for a little longer and work with a vendor like GOG to find my perfect stone.

My jewler has heard of neither ASET images nor gcal reports...a bit disturbing. I'm glad I posted here and double-checked with them. Really makes my decision easier.

Thanks again for your insight and look forward to your feedback when I have real pictures to post

 

[kenny]

Kelso, enjoy your diamond safari.

Here are a couple of links about asschers you may find helpful.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/asscher-cut-diamond

At the bottom of the link above are several other links to check out but don't miss this one . . . it was written by the man who designed the Octavia Asscher, KarlK.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/performance-and-p3-facets-discussion-about-step-cut-diamonds

Finally check out this eye candy thread, where zillions of us posted pics of our Asscher and Emerald cuts.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/emerald-cuts-asschers-a-collection.113993/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/emerald-cuts-asschers-a-collection.113993/[/URL]

 

[LD]

Just some thoughts - please don't flame me!

The OP has given stats and was asked in reply if he/she loved the stone (presuming he/she had seen it). I think that's THE best answer! Let's face it, if you are new to diamond buying shouldn't you love the stone and not the stats? A very slight differential in stats is not going to impact how the diamond looks to the majority of newbies. I understand that people can read ASET images etc etc but honestly, I've never bought a diamond with one and I don't consider my diamonds to be shabby.

I don't wish to insult anybody but I do think there's such an emphasis on angles and stats that people can be re-directed away from what could be a potential good buy.

The explanation of the extra facet was reassuring and bearing in mind that was what the OP was really concerned about, I'd be tempted to just say to make sure the stone is viewed personally and in all lighting conditions.

*puts head down and waits to run away*

 

[slg47]

LovingDiamonds, it depends on what you consider a good buy. Personally, if I had inquired about a diamond and PSers had not told me of potentially better alternatives, I would have been upset. I would want to know a lot of information to make the best diamond purchase, not just information about one potential stone. However, I agree with you that posters (mostly me!) need to make an effort to follow the prosumer guidelines and not re-direct. I apologize again, I really do try to make posts with the guidelines in mind and in the spirit of PS.

 

[kenny]

Just some thoughts - please don't flame me!

The OP has given stats and was asked in reply if he/she loved the stone (presuming he/she had seen it). I think that's THE best answer! Let's face it, if you are new to diamond buying shouldn't you love the stone and not the stats? A very slight differential in stats is not going to impact how the diamond looks to the majority of newbies. I understand that people can read ASET images etc etc but honestly, I've never bought a diamond with one and I don't consider my diamonds to be shabby.

I don't wish to insult anybody but I do think there's such an emphasis on angles and stats that people can be re-directed away from what could be a potential good buy.

The explanation of the extra facet was reassuring and bearing in mind that was what the OP was really concerned about, I'd be tempted to just say to make sure the stone is viewed personally and in all lighting conditions.

*puts head down and waits to run away*

Not a flame.

Picking a good asscher is hard and there are few tools like HCA to help.
Three to five rows of pavilion facets make recommended angle ranges impossible; the cut is too complex.

Without psychic powers it's not possible to know if that asscher was cut well.
ASET helps a lot, but the OP's vendor will not provide ASET pics.

After this thread the OP can now look at asschers with ASET pics.

Hopefully the OP's vendor learned a lesson.

 

[bright&shiny]

I agree with Kenny - unless you've happened upon a fantastic stone in person (which is rare), it is nearly impossible - without a heap of luck - to select a good asscher without additional information. That's how I actually came to PS - we were hunting for asschers and couldn't understand why they were all so different (we knew nothing of ASETs or cut at the time) and so 'black' in places (from reflection - or lack there of - not inclusions). I got online to do research and found this fantastic site.

Take heart, OP - it looks like you are on the right track for learning everything you want - and need - to know about selecting asschers. Careful, though, they are addictive!

Kenny - I love your pic - and am I right in suspecting that you are the proud owner of the best regular asscher Johnathan ever had - until the Octavia? We heard all about it when we were there :apple:

 

[kenny]

Yes Bright&shiny, we own both of these GOG rocks.

I wear the classic asscher on top and my honeybunch wears the Octavia.
In soft diffuse lighting I'm partial to the bold classic pattern of mine, but in spotlighting the Octavia steals the show by a landslide.
Octavias explode with fire like the best-cut rounds, unheard of for a step cut diamond.
It even performs well when dirty. Wierd.

 

[LD]

Cool photo Kenny.

Dear All

I understand and agree to a certain extent about ASETs etc., however, it's not impossible to pick a decent Asscher without them. I bought mine knowing nothing other than I liked it, the angles looked good and symmetrical and the performance was as I expected a diamond to perform. In the UK (and I can only speak how I find), ASETs are not used generally and if you walked into a jewellery store they would probably not be able to provide one. Does that mean you'd only be able to get inferior diamonds? No of course not. It means you have to evaluate using other means.

Technology of course moves on. This board is full of people who expect the very best from their diamonds and in general the regular forum posters are diamond junkies who only want THE BEST. Absolutely nothing wrong in that at all and it's commendable. However, regulars have very experienced eyes whereas those who buy a diamond once every 10 years or so may not. What's not acceptable to regulars on the forum may well be more than acceptable to the occasional diamond buyer.

There's nothing wrong with wanting the best but I don't think a diamond should be discounted if it doesn't have an ASET. Perhaps we could explain how an ASET might help forum members evaluate as they don't have the benefit of seeing a diamond in person (as Kenny has done in his post to me above) BUT at the end of the day, surely people should be encouraged to use their eyes and follow their heart also - not just the specs! I just wonder if we've lost the balance somewhere along the line?

I absolutely and wholly agree that if the diamond is overly expensive etc etc then perhaps forum regulars could point somebody in other directions but this shouldn't be simply because there isn't an ASET.

I understand my views buck the trend and are perhaps too simplistic. I apologise but my views are meant without malice or being judgemental of anybody. Thank you for not flaming me as I realise I'm not in the box on this one!

 

[D&T]

Cool photo Kenny.

Dear All

I understand and agree to a certain extent about ASETs etc., however, it's not impossible to pick a decent Asscher without them. I bought mine knowing nothing other than I liked it, the angles looked good and symmetrical and the performance was as I expected a diamond to perform. In the UK (and I can only speak how I find), ASETs are not used generally and if you walked into a jewellery store they would probably not be able to provide one. Does that mean you'd only be able to get inferior diamonds? No of course not. It means you have to evaluate using other means.

Technology of course moves on. This board is full of people who expect the very best from their diamonds and in general the regular forum posters are diamond junkies who only want THE BEST. Absolutely nothing wrong in that at all and it's commendable. However, regulars have very experienced eyes whereas those who buy a diamond once every 10 years or so may not. What's not acceptable to regulars on the forum may well be more than acceptable to the occasional diamond buyer.

There's nothing wrong with wanting the best but I don't think a diamond should be discounted if it doesn't have an ASET. Perhaps we could explain how an ASET might help forum members evaluate as they don't have the benefit of seeing a diamond in person (as Kenny has done in his post to me above) BUT at the end of the day, surely people should be encouraged to use their eyes and follow their heart also - not just the specs! I just wonder if we've lost the balance somewhere along the line?

I absolutely and wholly agree that if the diamond is overly expensive etc etc then perhaps forum regulars could point somebody in other directions but this shouldn't be simply because there isn't an ASET.

I understand my views buck the trend and are perhaps too simplistic. I apologise but my views are meant without malice or being judgemental of anybody. Thank you for not flaming me as I realise I'm not in the box on this one!

I wholeheartedly agree with you LD 100% you know how to put it so much more eloquently than I could.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I agree- LD's post was eloquent and made very good points.
I also appreciate Kenny's post- if a person wants the prosumers here on PS to evaluate an Asscher, ASET is essential.
But ASET is not essential if one wants to buy a really well cut asscher without the opinion of PS prosumers. Many sellers that are dedicated to providing extremely well cut stones don't/won't use ASET.
I have the ASET right here on my desk- I have it to provide ASET images if requested....but I'd never use it to buy stones if I can use my eyes- which thankfully, I can.
In such cases where PS readers/posters are buying without using ASET it's very important for consumers to look at as many stones as they can to get a better idea what they are looking at.

Let's also remember that what one person loves, another may not love as much.
Two stones can both be in the "well cut" category but have different personality- and looks.
This is particularly true with Asscher cuts.
Differences in corner size, for example, can produce different personalities.