Is this a round brilliant or a transitional diamond?

[swaye2010]

I have some diamonds in various sizes that are mostly loose from some jewelry that I inherited. I was thinking of making a sprinkle type diamonds by the yard necklace. I am showing two that I had loose next to a pair of earrings that I bought about 20 years ago. I had to take a picture of the diamonds because my eyes just can’t see well enough to know by looking at them. I just assumed they were brilliant cut until I put them next to a pair of earrings. These were from jewelry made in England in the early 1940’s so I thought they may actually be transitional cuts because the culet is so small. TIA!


I am sure the picture quality is going to downgrade so here is a video link if you can’t tell.

https://imgur.com/a/8aLdJXH

 

[foxinsox]

A profile shot would help. But I think they’re early modern round brilliants rather than transitionals because of how thin the pavilion mains are (the sun rays in the middle of each stone). Trannies typically have lower crowns and bigger tables than OECs but not as close as the early MRBs. They look quite similar to my mum’s ering diamond which has a huge table low crown and the same starburst look in the middle.

 

[swaye2010]

QUOTE="foxinsox, post: 4586202, member: 85058"]A profile shot would help. But I think they’re early modern round brilliants rather than transitionals because of how thin the pavilion mains are (the sun rays in the middle of each stone). Trannies typically have lower crowns and bigger tables than OECs but not as close as the early MRBs. They look quite similar to my mum’s ering diamond which has a huge table low crown and the same starburst look in the middle.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like what you are describing. I tried to get some zoomed in pics so you could see.

 

[flyingpig]

Very large table, skinny arrows, flat top,
Definitely not tranny. They are more like sub average 60/60 with deep pavilon and overly thick girdle

 

[tigertales]

I have a transitional cut from England ( closer to 1920 or so)....mine has a much more pronounced "flowery" pattern, and a thinner girdle.
Enjoy your pretty diamonds, regardless!

 

[WinkHPD]

Perhaps a little off topic, but please, allow me to add briefly to this conversation. (I will try to be brief, I promise!)

When I graduated from GIA in 1975, I doubt even the younger instructors would have know what you were talking about. Certainly none of in the class I graduated with would have known to talk about long narrow pavilion mains. We thought we knew what ideal cuts were, 53 to 57 table, 60 - 61% depth. Culets were put there for a reason back then, and there was no discussion of crown or pavilion angles when i was there. Girdles were granular looking, like the ones shown above, polished girdles were just barely coming on the market back then and were quite rare.

We really only thought we had emerged from the dark ages of diamond cutting back then, and no one had any inkling of the ground breaking research that would be done in the 80s and 90s by the GIA and AGS Laboratories.

Today, I see consumers who know more than the vast majority of jewelers when it comes to diamond cutting.

As a member of the Trade, I can tell you I would bust my proud buttons if 70% of Jewelers knew as much about diamond cutting and proportions as the average Pricescoper.

In the interest of the brevity I promised, I just want to say, "YOU GUYS ROCK!"

 

[denverappraiser]

Looks like a MRB to me, although I doubt the cut graders around here would like it much. Big table, steep crown, thick brunted girdle, out of round, smallish culet.

BTW, 'brilliant' in diamond lingo means pavilion mains that come together at a point at the culet. You can have round brilliants, square brilliants, octagonal brilliants, etc. In a generic sort of sense, OECs and Trannys are also brilliant cuts. There's not a carved-in-stone rule that makes a stone 'Modern' but it generally means tiny or no culet, 57 or 58 facets with 8-fold symmetry, and a bigish table. That's painting with a broad brush of course. Relatively recently GIA has added the category of 'circular brilliant' for round (meaning the shape) brilliant stones that don't really fall into their cut grades and that don't meet their standards for OECs. They don't recognize 'transitional' at all.

 

[swaye2010]

Looks like a MRB to me, although I doubt the cut graders around here would like it much. Big table, steep crown, thick brunted girdle, out of round, smallish culet.

BTW, 'brilliant' in diamond lingo means pavilion mains that come together at a point at the culet. You can have round brilliants, square brilliants, octagonal brilliants, etc. In a generic sort of sense, OECs and Trannys are also brilliant cuts. There's not a carved-in-stone rule that makes a stone 'Modern' but it generally means tiny or no culet, 57 or 58 facets with 8-fold symmetry, and a bigish table. That's painting with a broad brush of course. Relatively recently GIA has added the category of 'circular brilliant' for round (meaning the shape) brilliant stones that don't really fall into their cut grades and that don't meet their standards for OECs. They don't recognize 'transitional' at all.

Thank you...this is all good information. I was just curious only because it didn’t look like a ‘typical’ round brilliant to me but I am not the most educated person on diamonds or understanding all the different cuts. I just know the brilliant cuts have gone through an evolution over the last 100 or so years. I have some loose as I reset the oval sapphire from a wedding set from my MIL in England. I know she was married in the early 1940’s but I don’t have any more information than that. I was just trying to figure out if it was worth doing anything with them...If they are poorly cut by today’s standards, then maybe not?

 

[Lookinagain]

I don't think you mention their size, but without that information, since you say you are thinking of a DBTY necklace, then I think all that matters is how these stones look to you. Do they sparkle and are they pleasing to your eyes? Then if so, why not do something with them? I don't know how many you have but you could also consider a mosaic style piece for a bracelet like @mrs-b just recently had made or for some of the pieces JBG has done in the mosaic style. I think this link should show you some options
https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=mosaic

 

[mrs-b]

Wow - thanks for the link, @Lookinagain! I didn't realize JbyG did these. I knew Singlestone did something similar to mine, tho their manner of setting the stones is different. Love all of these and definitely agree that this is an excellent way to use up leftover diamonds - or colored stones, for that matter. I think one of these with colored gems would be spectacular!

@swaye2010 - I know you weren't really asking for setting ideas but I think the whole cobblestone / mosaic / jigsaw usage of lots of leftover diamonds - especially diamonds of dubious quality - is an excellent usage. DBTY have a habit of rotating so you end up looking at some of the pointy backs...and at some of the fronts! The mosaic effect, tho, makes a stunning pendant, ring or bracelet. As an owner of one - I recommend it!!

 

[Lookinagain]

@mrs-b, agree that this style is a great way to use leftover or "rescue" stones as I like to call them. I've been accumulating some and when I have enough I hope to make a bangle. And I meant to link the thread @mrs-b made for her bracelet. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-sparkly-doo-dad-to-use-up-my-spare-oecs.249262. Her's is beautiful.
@swaye2010 just trying to give you some ideas as I agree that DBTY stones tend to flip and it can drive some folks nutsy. If that might be you then you may enjoy some of these other options.

 

[swaye2010]

@mrs-b, agree that this style is a great way to use leftover or "rescue" stones as I like to call them. I've been accumulating some and when I have enough I hope to make a bangle. And I meant to link the thread @mrs-b made for her bracelet. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-sparkly-doo-dad-to-use-up-my-spare-oecs.249262. Her's is beautiful.
@swaye2010 just trying to give you some ideas as I agree that DBTY stones tend to flip and it can drive some folks nutsy. If that might be you then you may enjoy some of these other options.

What an interesting take. I have a mixture of 15 pointers and some 5 pointers. They have been sitting around forever. I also have some sapphires too. I quite like the idea of the mosaic pendant in yellow gold. I have so many bracelets but I so rarely wear them because I find them annoying when I am writing or typing. I would get more use out of the yellow gold pendant and I am old enough now to have sold all of my yellow gold when it went out of style only to now miss having yellow gold again. I still have a few yellow gold chains but no pendants to go with them. Thanks for the idea!

 

[arkieb1]

I have a diamond that is in a ring from a now dead great aunt also around the 40s similar cut to this, I call it an early modern brilliant, it's not a transitional, because it's not what we think of as a transitional cut pattern, it's more like a big tabled shallowed crowned badly cut RB, but the one I have still has plenty of fire and sparkle. I've thought over the years about recutting it but on the flip side there is something nostalgic in just leaving it as is.

 

[swaye2010]

I have a diamond that is in a ring from a now dead great aunt also around the 40s similar cut to this, I call it an early modern brilliant, it's not a transitional, because it's not what we think of as a transitional cut pattern, it's more like a big tabled shallowed crowned badly cut RB, but the one I have still has plenty of fire and sparkle. I've thought over the years about recutting it but on the flip side there is something nostalgic in just leaving it as is.

I agree. It is more about the history behind this then the cut quality. I would like to do something with them and the mosaic is a good idea. This is just a ‘fun’ remembrance piece and not an everyday item like an e-ring.