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Is this a good diamond & deal?

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mfarr

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 27, 2022
Messages
13
Good Morning all, first post here :)

Im in the market to buy a diamond and would like some help.
This is a diamond I've been offerred:

Round
Weight: 0.63ct
Color: E
Clarity: VVS1
Cut: Triple excellent
No Fluorescence

5.51-5.54 x3.38mm dimensions

59.5% Table
61.2% Depth
33.7 Crown angle
41.4 Pavilion Angle

Thin - Medium faceted

Price: $3630

I've ran this in the HCA Tool and it returned a 4.6 score which isn't that good. What would be your take on it?
 
Triple Excellent, but the poor HCA score of 4.6?
Hmmmm. :think: Let me guess.
It's was graded by GIA.
That's the problem.

The fastest and easiest way to find good cut is looking for diamonds with cut (light performance) grade of 000 by AGS.

If you insist on GIA (I wouldn't) and want top light performance (IOW the best cut) you have to learn how to find the best of GIA's best - many of which are not that good.
GIA's top cut grade is too loosie goosie, which makes retail diamod sellers more money as they both deceive the public. :angryfire::nono:
Trust the HCA and keep shopping.
If you fine a GIA stone with a good GIA score it's a strong contender.

To zero in on the best cut of all of your contenders learn how to understand Idealscope images.
If your vendor does not provide Idealscope images, I'd find another vendor.
I strongly recommend Whiteflash, and look for their ACA diamonds.

www.pricescope.com

Ideal Scope

The Ideal Scope is a cut quality assessment tool for round diamonds which reveal areas of brightness, leakage, and contrast.
www.pricescope.com

www.pricescope.com

Hearts and Arrows Diamonds: Everything You Need To Know

Find out why a Hearts and Arrows diamond is considered to be so special and why they cost more. Discover the benefits here.
www.pricescope.com
 
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@kenny actually it was graded by IGI. This is from a local jeweler however I am becoming more and more inclined in purchasing online. The problem with local is that where I am situated is that they won't go into detail in regard to ASET / Idealscope imagery.

My problem with purchasing online is simply that I don't know where would be best to purchase an AGS 000 diamond within Europe. Other than internationally through Whiteflash.
 
IGI
Ugh!
IMO that lab is even less reputable overall than GIA.
The same diamond sent to GIA or AGS will likely come back with grades worse than E VVS1.
IOW when comparing diamonds with the same grade (but graded by different labs) you are not comparing apples to apples - which makes pricing impossible to compare.

Also, I noticed your stone is E VVS1.

Nothing wrong with that per se ....... BUT ......
High color and clarity preference is fine AFTER you know excellent good color and clarity do NOTHING to help the light performance - again many sellers lie to you about this.

The light performance is the result of good cut.
When it comes to clarity you can safely go down to VS1 to be virtually guaranteed of an eye-clean stone.
VS2 will be almost always eye-clean.

Color ... people vary, some cannot distinguish between a D and a ... oh, say ... G.
Also when viewed up side down side by side (the way reputable labs grade color) a G or H [placed next to a D] is where most people will start to notice color in the G/H.
But if a D and Z are not side by side few people will be able to distinguish which is the G - especially face up - especially if both have top cut - because top cut reflects more light making diamond seem whiter.

Now that you know this get out and view diamonds graded by GIA and AGS graded from D to ... say ... H.
Then compare the price tags.
Most folks will stop shopping for an E VVS1 and settle somewhere around F or G and VS2 - and the money saved can be put towards a larger and better-cut diamond.

Perhaps someone here knows of who sells AGS-graded diamonds in Europe.
I'd call AGS directly and ask them who in Europe sells diamonds graded by AGS.

www.americangemsociety.org

Home

American Gem Society is comprised of the top jewelers in the U.S. and Canada and offers the best gemstone and diamond information. Find top jewelers today.
www.americangemsociety.org www.americangemsociety.org

If you can't find an AGS 000, read my links above to learn how to find the GIA Ex Ex Ex diamonds that are the best-cut.
I would not buy a diamond graded by IGI.

I think Gübelin grades diamonds in Switzerland, and are considered very reputable.
If they publish the specs needed by the HCA, and you find one that scores well, I'd have no problem buying it.
I'm an American who understands that everything doesn't have to be American.
 
Last edited:
We can definitely help find a top performing diamond that fits your budget.

A few quick questions and we'll go to work:

1. Import fees/VAT rate in your country?
2. Budget (including the fees and VAT)?
3. What kind of setting, if applicable?
4. Plan to upgrade the diamond in the future?

There are a plethora of reputable diamond sellers all over the world that many PS'ers are familiar with, so finding you a diamond that maximizes your purchase shouldn't be a daunting task.

@kenny made some great points: cut is crucial and will usually allow adjustments in color and clarity while giving maximum light return and performance.
 
Hi @DejaWiz

Thanks for your reply and to answer your questions:

1. VAT is 18%
2. 3 - 4k Euro ($3150 - $4200)
3. Solitaire setting which tapers is the most ideal
4. This was discussed and it most probably it won't be upgraded (sentimental value)
 
@kenny
What's your take on Blue Nile's 'Astor Ideal' Line? and Blue Nile as a whole?
 
mfarr said:
Hi @DejaWiz

Thanks for your reply and to answer your questions:

1. VAT is 18%
2. 3 - 4k Euro ($3150 - $4200)
3. Solitaire setting which tapers is the most ideal
4. This was discussed and it most probably it won't be upgraded (sentimental value)
Click to expand...

Just ran the PS search engine and this one is really standing out to me:

Diamond | 0.653 ct E VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4386698

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.653 carat E color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4386698
www.whiteflash.com

Here is a link to the search engine with some adjustments made to the filters:

Diamond Search Results | Real-time Information on 1,000,000+ Diamonds | PriceScope

PriceScope's Diamond Search is the best place to find the best diamond prices. Search and compare over a million natural, lab and fancy color diamonds.
www.pricescope.com www.pricescope.com

Another option would be to check 77Diamonds.com (based out of London).
Jon at Distinctive Gem, David at Diamonds by Lauren, Victor Canera, Brian Gavin, Continental Diamond (CBI), and Chloe at JannPaul can definitely assist you with finding perfection in the form of a diamond. :)
 
Definitely dont buy the IGI option. GIA XXX is a very broad rating that unfortinately has a lot of poorly performing stones. IGI XXX is even more broad.

We can definitely help you find something much better in your budget.
 
mfarr said:
Hi @DejaWiz

Thanks for your reply and to answer your questions:

1. VAT is 18%
2. 3 - 4k Euro ($3150 - $4200)
3. Solitaire setting which tapers is the most ideal
4. This was discussed and it most probably it won't be upgraded (sentimental value)
Click to expand...

Try DiamondScreener, the Pricescope search and Stone Algo to double check your choice. Between them you should find something.
 
max1111 said:
Try DiamondScreener, the Pricescope search and Stone Algo to double check your choice. Between them you should find something.
Click to expand...

Filtering the PS search engine for HCA of "Excellent" is always a favorable option to weed out potentially poorly cut diamonds.
 
@DejaWiz @kenny @max1111 @Kim N @lovedogs
Tagging everyone because youve all been helpful - what would be your criteria to find the diamond in my scenario? Should I go for a broader range of color & clarity? Like going down to H color for example?

Furthermore, id like to get your thoughts on BlueNile & their Astor Ideal line as BlueNile has European outlets so that would be the easiest option for me without going to Whiteflash. I heard that since James Allen was acquired their quality has diminished, is that right?
 
Going down to G-H and VS2 is usually considered safe. As the others have mentioned, cut is the most important C, so we often recommend stones from the super-ideal vendors. Using the Pricescope search engine (and filtering for HCA "Excellent" as DejaWiz suggested) is the easiest way I've found to search for well cut stones.

Both Blue Nile and James Allen have some good diamonds. IMO most of the Astor Ideal or James Allen's True Hearts stones will not be as tightly cut as the super ideal cut stones from Whiteflash, Victor Canera, etc., but it is possible to find a good one. Did you like either of the Blue Nile stones I posted?
 
mfarr said:
@DejaWiz @kenny @max1111 @Kim N @lovedogs
Tagging everyone because youve all been helpful - what would be your criteria to find the diamond in my scenario? Should I go for a broader range of color & clarity? Like going down to H color for example?

Furthermore, id like to get your thoughts on BlueNile & their Astor Ideal line as BlueNile has European outlets so that would be the easiest option for me without going to Whiteflash. I heard that since James Allen was acquired their quality has diminished, is that right?
Click to expand...

First you have to figure out your tolerance to colour and clarity. Then you have to figure out if you're getting an good deal or a bad deal. Unfortunately you can't really do the first bit all online. I wasted a bunch of time looking for stones that really wouldn't have worked for me in real life. Then again I am very picky with large purchases.

If your eyes can focus at 5/6" there's a chance you're going to see certain VS2 inclusions. If you haven't seen anything in real life you just won't know. If you can view some stones in real life just take down the certificate number and pull up the details online. This will give you a better idea of the kind of inclusions you're cool with and the ones to avoid. Or just go with VS1 for safety (again avoiding anything big on the table)

This was not at all eye clean for me
www.77diamonds.com

Loose Diamonds

Best selection of cut loose diamonds. To buy diamonds online choose from over 400,000 loose diamonds at wholesale prices.
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This was eye clean
www.77diamonds.com

Loose Diamonds

Best selection of cut loose diamonds. To buy diamonds online choose from over 400,000 loose diamonds at wholesale prices.
www.77diamonds.com www.77diamonds.com


Colour wise I was OK down to H, happier at G but all the best "deals" I found were at the higher colours so I went with F - Everyone is looking for G's! I decided I couldn't trust AGS colour grades so went with a GIA stone, VS1 for safety.
 
Thanks for the recommendations @Kim N but after some reading I might just bite the bullet (eat the taxes) and get the diamond & setting from Whiteflash :). Also because she likes a setting similar to what Whiteflash can already offer.

So now I'm on the search for the best performing stone within my budget (up to $3500 for the stone) from Whiteflash. If anyone has any other recommendations than what @DejaWiz has already suggested, I would love to see them.
 
Hi, mfarr.
Here are a couple of extremely clean SI1 that I thought you may want to consider.

Diamond | 0.725 ct F SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4492519

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.725 carat F color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4492519
www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.701 ct G SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4466317

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.701 carat G color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4466317
www.whiteflash.com

If you want to gauge your color sensitivity and tolerance (kenny mentioned this earlier), then I recommend asking WF to set this one side by side with some diamonds that have better color grades and get some pictures and videos.

Diamond | 0.833 ct J VVS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4462533

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.833 carat J color VVS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4462533
www.whiteflash.com
 
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@DejaWiz, thanks for the links, having a hard time finding the inclusions on those! I've just asked WF for side by side comparisons to gauge color a bit better. I've been reading more and more that since the setting will be a white gold solitaire ring, color can be expanded down to I/J without much of a noticeable difference, would you say this is correct?
 
mfarr said:
@DejaWiz, thanks for the links, having a hard time finding the inclusions on those! I've just asked WF for side by side comparisons to gauge color a bit better. I've been reading more and more that since the setting will be a white gold solitaire ring, color can be expanded down to I/J without much of a noticeable difference, would you say this is correct?
Click to expand...

Usually safe for most, but not for some that would have higher color sensitivity or lower tolerance. After a bunch of side by side comparing, my wife and I determined that we are both a bit color sensitive but lower tolerance (her more so than I am), so we decided to limit our search in the D-G range to appease my wife's mind.
 
I would not go down to a J unless it's been "oked" with the wearer. "I" would be the lowest I would go and actually for you, I would
probably stay higher if possible.

Full disclosure...I own a super ideal J and K. They show tint, especially from the side.
 
Here are two other Whiteflash options.

Diamond | 0.703 ct E SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4494065

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.703 carat E color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4494065
www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.724 ct H VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 2909298

This fabulous 0.724 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 2909298
www.whiteflash.com
 
Thanks all, WF have been kind enough to send me a ring sizer free of charge as I edge closer to purchasing the diamond :). Also @DejaWiz - I think I'd go down to H on the color scale and SI1 eye clean clarity. The examples you and @Kim N have shown are great. I guess I just have to pull the trigger unless there are anymore examples
 
I would pick your 3 favorites and ask for a side-by-side video. You'll likely find that one speaks to you more than the others.

A few more H color, not to make your decision harder.

Diamond | 0.704 ct H VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4469154

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.704 carat H color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4469154
www.whiteflash.com

Loose Cut Diamonds for Sale: Discover Exceptional Quality

Explore our GIA certified loose diamonds, including Hearts & Arrows (H&A) and super ideal cuts. Buy diamonds that offer brilliance, style, and fit your budget.
www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.703 ct H VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4452316

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.703 carat H color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4452316
www.whiteflash.com
 
So im back - got the ring sizer and hence the size required... did some more reading and I might just narrow down my search even more.

Color - G-H... (F if good deal)
Clarity - VS1-SI1 eye clean
Cut- whiteflash - ACA
Ct- 0.6+

In terms of clarity, im hesitant to pull the trigger on diamonds with inclusions on the table as id think this can affect the light performance somehow and be more easily visible to the eye.
 
You're right in the price realm for a 0.6ct JannPaul round or Decagon 10 hearts and arrows treat...contact them and see what they have available or in the pipeline. Might be worth considering even at the 0.5-0.59ct range since the performance will be mind blowing.
Fantastic examples on their YouTube channel.

Explore Diamond Prices | JannPaul Diamond Jeweller

Explore Singapore's finest engagement rings with our diamond price guide. Choose from natural, earth-mined or lab-grown diamonds to craft your symbol of love
www.jannpaul.com www.jannpaul.com
 
Unfortunately they won't ship to me due to some insurance reasons. So im back to Whiteflash...

So back to searching for a diamond from WF.
 
Hi all,

What do you think between these?

Im inclined to go for the first one as it seems like a good deal along with the inclusions being on the side of the diamond.

Diamond | 0.725 ct F SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4492519

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.725 carat F color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4492519
www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.703 ct H VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4452316

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.703 carat H color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4452316
www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.700 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4430092

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.700 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4430092
www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.736 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4439170

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.736 carat G color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4439170
www.whiteflash.com
 
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