Is there such a thing as price negotiation?

[canuk-gal]

Hello:

I am new to this forum, so forgive me if I am asking a question that has previously been covered.

I am looking to upgrade my present engagement ring of twenty years and have seen a few websites that potentially offer what I am interest in. My question is: are vendors set on their advertized prices or is there some room for negotiation? On the "Original" diamonds website, it is stated that you can actually suggest a price you have in mind, and go from there. I just wonder how much margin exists--and if so on what kinds of stones. I am interested in a single stone 3-3.50CTW, SI(1), I or J color, excellent cut.

cheers

slb

 

[valeria101]

Hm... you can always quote a price and let the seller get you a stone for that amount - but then who is telling you what the stone is worth? And if you do find out later that the respective was by no means a bargain... what can you do?

Anywhere you still need to trust the seller (and, actually, I would rather trust the one who tells his best price upfront and does not haggle). However, this source you mention might well be the only one to work this way. If they insisted so much to reinvent the wheel - I'd wander why, sure that

Taking only the couple stones within your range of specs listed here, the price per carat already goes from 5000 to 7500 (to keep it conservative) - lots of room for shopping around for the better looking and the better cut, without having to decipher one seller's pricing. There is much more information you can get about th stone sthemselves... I suppose.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi sb,


Good question- I think there's a lot of misconception about this.




A "decent" 3.00 diamond generally will start at around $16k.


That's a price which I would say is competitive on a GIA J/SI1 3.00 well cut round brilliant diamond.


I'm using this price as an example, you'll find lower and higher prices as you look- on such a price, a vendor will not be able to move more than a few points likely.


The same stone in a "Major brinck and mortar" store might be $20k.


An strong independant, nowadays, might be closer to an internet price- but if it that's the case the seller won't be making enough to negotiate more than a few points.


The margin on large diamonds is not "all that" , now that the inrternet has come along..






IMO-- It's always OK to attempt to negotiate. Life is short- have fun!

 

[Mara]

There definitely is such a thing! Not all vendors will want to use it..some have slimmer margins than others, especially online. Online you may see people willing to move $100 or even $500 or maybe $1000 depending. But offline, it seems as though B&M's usually build in more of a margin, so I have seen prices drop $1000-2000 with no problems. Sometimes they will even match internet pricing to capture the sale (our offline jeweler did this). So there is some room, but be respectful when discussing it. If they don't have alot of room to move, don't misconstrue that as unwillingness to assist you.




What a fun upgrade! You may have to be a little patient to find a stone in that size with an excellent cut...but don't settle! Get the best you can. Good luck!

 

[canuk-gal]

Hello David:

Thank you for your sage advice. I have come to "know" you from your ebay venue--and hence, value both your sense and sensibility on diamond matters.

In part my question arose from an interaction I had with a respected B & M establishment in the city where I live; whereby the owner told me that "if he couldn't make at least ten points on every stone he would give the business up". Given this statement, it became clear to me there would be no negotiating with him--yet I wondered how pervasive this attitude was in industry. Thank you for shedding some light on the subject.

cheers

slb

 

[canuk-gal]

Hello Mara:

Thank you for all your help! Those stones were lovely, and I will continue on my search and not "settle" until I find the "best fit" for me!

kind regards

slb

 

[diamondsbylauren]

HI sb,


If you think about it, how could he operate on less than 10%- that is really not an unfair margin for someone maintaining a full service "Brick and Mortar" jewelry store - if that's where he started, than you might not be going to get anything more off.




Or, the seller is using numbers without substance to back them up.


What's your judgment call on that one?




If you publish specifics ( we could start with the numbers on the GIA report and the price), I'm sure we can tell you if it sounds like a good deal

 

[diamondsman]

your best bet is to shop the net , go on different sites compare same/similar stones and see who gives you the best deal for your $$$$$,Many vendors will try to work with you to their limit of profit margin, Like others mentioned don't get upset if they can't budge ,as the marigins are really slim, and most vendors depend on a big turnover in order to make money!!

good luck

 

[canuk-gal]

HI again:

I looked at a few stones today--and I was remiss in getting all the details from the certifications as I was like a deer with headlights in my eyes! OHMYGOD did I see some beauties in the 2.50-4.0CTW range! Perhaps too, when I was told that a stone in the 3.50 carat range, VS1, F, Excellent cut, was going to cost me $76,000 + tax(Canadian) I just tuned out.
Again, in reference to my original post regarding price negotiation I didn't feel there was much flexibility on the vendors part, so I didn't ask. No biggie, as I wasn't putting my money on the table today--but in the future if and when I do, I will be sure to inquire. Politely.

However, they had one very lovely cushion cut that I did write some specs down on:

HRD certified:
3.04 Cushion
9.25 x 7.68 x 5.66
Table: 65%
Cr. Ht: 12%
Pav. Depth: 51%
Finish: Good
Color: G
Clarity: P1 (I1)
(Hope these measurements appear appropriate, as I was writing in a hurry and didn't get a copy of the cert).
Cost: $26,175. (Canadian + 7% tax).
This stone was already set into a very heavy handmade platinum mount that was breath taking. The mount had 145 one pointers set into it (1 x 145 = 1.45CTW), excellent quality stones, and the mount was an additional $9500.
Even though this stone was an I1, it was full of life and the inclusions were impossible to see without a loupe, b/c of the bezel of this antique style mount.
Incidentally there seemed to be a bit of movement on this ring, knocking down the stone price to $24,000 and reducing the price of the mount to around $7,000.

Do these prices seem excessive to you out there--and would/should there be any room for negoitation? Too when the owner came by he mentioned to me again (probably forgot our conversation of earlier) that he needs to make 15 points on his diamonds, that was an increase over the 10 points of before. Maybe that was the absolute minimum.

P.S. I have no exact specs, but they had a 2.53 RB, I1, excellent cut, H color, Canadian diamond for $18,500 (Canadian). Very lively stone, although I could see the inclusion in this stone as it was across the table, not like the cushion where I was unable to see it. How is this stone priced?

Forgive this long post, but thanking you in advance for any and all input.

cheers

canuk-gal

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Sorry, should have added that the stones I saw did not have any flouresence either.

slb

 

[valeria101]

I really hope the setting was a real stunner 'cause the price sure is.
The cut of the cushion does not appear exceedingly fine... although there are no guidelines for this cut, it is really easy to guess that a stone with over 70% depth is not going to show allot for it's weight - even though ti does pass the 3 cts mark.

And... are you sure the HRD P1 corresponds to GIA's I1? I am not...

I am not sure what the exchange rate is, but the 24k quoted would be really good if one US$ would come at about 2.5CAN. Fancy cuts like this are supposed to be less expensive than rounds per carat.

The 'equivalent exchange rate' on the round appears 1.8 CAN/USD... If this comes close to the real number, the price is good too.

 

[StevL]

My question is: are vendors set on their advertized prices or is there some room for negotiation?

There is always such a thing, if not this time try again somewhere else.

 

[canuk-gal]

Hello ya'll:

I appreciate your input, and candor. In genuinely attempting to compare "apples with apples"; what costs I have come across, online, concurs with what was written here on the fancy cut--that it is highly priced.

In addition, I was given some specs on an H & A, 2.44 round, and when I compared it to an internet vendor out of Toronto (and elsewhere: Diamond Exchange), their price was $8,000 better than what I was quoted at the B & M vendor here. This also rings true for another Canadian internet/B & M vendor out of Vancouver--prices are simply better than what I have seen so far.

Given that I am Canadian, I have no compunction whatsoever flying to one of these cities to buy a stone--as I would want to see--F2F--what I buy. Both cities are great and for the savings it could be a great little vacation!

cheers

slb

cheers

slb

 

[valeria101]

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On 4/26/2004 11:41:28 AM canuk-gal wrote:

Hello ya'll:

In genuinely attempting to compare 'apples with apples'; what costs I have come across, online, concurs with what was written here on the fancy cut--that it is highly priced.

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This is right for 'branded' cuts (H&A, Regent, what not) not the no-name princes, oval, marquize, cushions and emerald cuts. Not sure what you mean though. I don't know of any stats published, but a rundown of a PS search, with the thousands of listings would show this.