is there a way to fix our social security system?

[Dancing Fire]

i told my daughters they better start saving for their retirement as soon as they can,don't depend on SS,cuz in the very near future our government couldn't rob enough Paul to pay Peter.

 

[sctsbride09]

Well, for starters, how about only giving SS to people who have paid INTO it.

 

[that_someone_special]

OK then.. what about children on disability? They obviously haven't paid in... why shouldn't they get SS?

 

[sctsbride09]

Yes, but their parents have..That seems to be splitting hairs a bit..

 

[JulieN]

Raise retirement age.

 

[lbbaber]

OK then.. what about children on disability? They obviously haven't paid in... why shouldn't they get SS?

Why SHOULD children get SS? I am not trying to prove a point, I honestly don't understand the reasoning.

I know of many children w/ disabilites collecting SS (including 4 children my parents adopted). I am all for helping those that can't work, but it confuses me (and my parents) why children are getting SS every month. Its not like we expect healthy children to go get jobs and then, therefore, the children that aren't able to work should get SS...children don't work. And its not about the burden on parents bc all children are dependent on their parents. Even my parents agree and they adopted 4 children w/special needs.

I am not referring to medical. I am talking about children getting monthly SS checks. I do not understand the reasoning behind this.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I think you nipped it in the bud by telling her not to plan on receiving any SS at all. Her retirement plans need to be completely independent of anything she may get back from the gov't.

 

[y2kitty]

i told my daughters they better start saving for their retirement as soon as they can,don't depend on SS,cuz in the very near future our government couldn't rob enough Paul to pay Peter.

I am already planning on not receiving SS. I am just scared the government will turn around and tax ROTH IRAs distributions in the future when they need cash and see a huge pool of assets.

 

[JewelFreak]

It got votes when they put it in, that's the reasoning behind most give-aways (No flames, not all, ok?)

We'd better fix SS or there will be nothing for ANYONE.

 

[that_someone_special]

OK then.. what about children on disability? They obviously haven't paid in... why shouldn't they get SS?

Why SHOULD children get SS? I am not trying to prove a point, I honestly don't understand the reasoning.

I know of many children w/ disabilites collecting SS (including 4 children my parents adopted). I am all for helping those that can't work, but it confuses me (and my parents) why children are getting SS every month. Its not like we expect healthy children to go get jobs and then, therefore, the children that aren't able to work should get SS...children don't work. And its not about the burden on parents bc all children are dependent on their parents. Even my parents agree and they adopted 4 children w/special needs.

I am not referring to medical. I am talking about children getting monthly SS checks. I do not understand the reasoning behind this.

I guess we just won't agree or see eye to eye. I have known quite a few people on SS/ disability and it's not like it's just a walk in the park. That money helps pay for medicare (v v v expensive, as it covers, um LIKE NOTHING). What should a low-income family do if they have a disabled child? Put it down like a dog if they don't have money? Give it up? Go on SS to help pay for medical bills? They might be some SS fraud out there but I would think that most people need it. What can be done about that? Just throw those people in the street? Seniors that worked their entire life.. "Hey thanks for working until you are 72 but... jokes on you!"

I dunno. I don't know the answer, but I also passionately want to help people that need help and deserve it.

 

[lbbaber]

OK then.. what about children on disability? They obviously haven't paid in... why shouldn't they get SS?

Why SHOULD children get SS? I am not trying to prove a point, I honestly don't understand the reasoning.

I know of many children w/ disabilites collecting SS (including 4 children my parents adopted). I am all for helping those that can't work, but it confuses me (and my parents) why children are getting SS every month. Its not like we expect healthy children to go get jobs and then, therefore, the children that aren't able to work should get SS...children don't work. And its not about the burden on parents bc all children are dependent on their parents. Even my parents agree and they adopted 4 children w/special needs.

I am not referring to medical. I am talking about children getting monthly SS checks. I do not understand the reasoning behind this.

I guess we just won't agree or see eye to eye. I have known quite a few people on SS/ disability and it's not like it's just a walk in the park. That money helps pay for medicare (v v v expensive, as it covers, um LIKE NOTHING). What should a low-income family do if they have a disabled child? Put it down like a dog if they don't have money? Give it up? Go on SS to help pay for medical bills? They might be some SS fraud out there but I would think that most people need it. What can be done about that? Just throw those people in the street? Seniors that worked their entire life.. "Hey thanks for working until you are 72 but... jokes on you!"

I dunno. I don't know the answer, but I also passionately want to help people that need help and deserve it.

I am absoultely NOT referring to medical...the children I know are on state medical---which is SEPERATE than SS--and still receive a SS check every month. That means that they are getting FREE medical and through their towns/cities they are getting their educational needs met. I am not talking about that kind of help---which they get. I am not referring to welfare, food stamps, medical...nor was I referring to people of working age that NEED to support themselves and recieve SS bc they can't. What i am talking about are the many children i know, that have some kind of a disability---they have working parents---and collect an SS check. THAT is what I dont get.

I agree that there are MANY adults that cant work and they should get help . I am not even someone that said it should only go to those that have paid into the system. I am ALL FOR helping those that need it. I just thought that SS is for those that need to SUPPORT THEMSELVES AND CANT....seniors, adults with disabilities. What child supports his/herself? And if the family is that poor, then they are getting state medical and welfare (where I live)...This isnt about those types of services...its about SS.

So I repeat, why does a child get SS (in addition to/not referring to the other aid available to poor families). I even know families where both parents are working and the child gets SS....

 

[DivaDiamond007]

i told my daughters they better start saving for their retirement as soon as they can,don't depend on SS,cuz in the very near future our government couldn't rob enough Paul to pay Peter.

I agree completely! I am 28 and have paid into SS my entire working life and will not see a dime. Personally, I think that the entire system should be privitized. You pay into your own account and collect it when you retire. If you don't pay into it then you get no benefits PERIOD. Unfortunately for me I'm also in the generation that has seen nothing but stagnant wages, price increases and a raising cost of living so I probably won't be able to afford to save for retirement because all of my money goes to just trying to get by. Ticks me off beyond belief! Retirement!? What retirement? As such, I feel that those in my generation should not have to pay into SS anymore so as to at least give us a glimpse of a work-free life in our later years.

I also do not understand the logic behind SS payments for children or the disabled. On that end of things, the health system in the US needs to be revamped some way some how to make healthcare affordable for everyone - not just those that are wealthy and can buy their way into a decent plan.

Further, I also have strong views on who should and should not be able to collect government benefits of any kind (food stamps, welfare, unemployment, etc.).

I will stop there lest this thread take a more political tone.

 

[Dancing Fire]

OK then.. what about children on disability? They obviously haven't paid in... why shouldn't they get SS?

Why SHOULD children get SS? I am not trying to prove a point, I honestly don't understand the reasoning.

I know of many children w/ disabilites collecting SS (including 4 children my parents adopted). I am all for helping those that can't work, but it confuses me (and my parents) why children are getting SS every month. Its not like we expect healthy children to go get jobs and then, therefore, the children that aren't able to work should get SS...children don't work. And its not about the burden on parents bc all children are dependent on their parents. Even my parents agree and they adopted 4 children w/special needs.

I am not referring to medical. I am talking about children getting monthly SS checks. I do not understand the reasoning behind this.

I guess we just won't agree or see eye to eye. I have known quite a few people on SS/ disability and it's not like it's just a walk in the park. That money helps pay for medicare (v v v expensive, as it covers, um LIKE NOTHING). What should a low-income family do if they have a disabled child? Put it down like a dog if they don't have money? Give it up? Go on SS to help pay for medical bills? They might be some SS fraud out there but I would think that most people need it. What can be done about that? Just throw those people in the street? Seniors that worked their entire life.. "Hey thanks for working until you are 72 but... jokes on you!"
I dunno. I don't know the answer, but I also passionately want to help people that need help and deserve it.

i'm sure that's what they gonna tell my daughter's generation.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i told my daughters they better start saving for their retirement as soon as they can,don't depend on SS,cuz in the very near future our government couldn't rob enough Paul to pay Peter.

I agree completely! I am 28 and have paid into SS my entire working life and will not see a dime. Personally, I think that the entire system should be privitized. You pay into your own account and collect it when you retire. If you don't pay into it then you get no benefits PERIOD. Unfortunately for me I'm also in the generation that has seen nothing but stagnant wages, price increases and a raising cost of living so I probably won't be able to afford to save for retirement because all of my money goes to just trying to get by. Ticks me off beyond belief! Retirement!? What retirement? As such, I feel that those in my generation should not have to pay into SS anymore so as to at least give us a glimpse of a work-free life in our later years.

I also do not understand the logic behind SS payments for children or the disabled. On that end of things, the health system in the US needs to be revamped some way some how to make healthcare affordable for everyone - not just those that are wealthy and can buy their way into a decent plan.

Further, I also have strong views on who should and should not be able to collect government benefits of any kind (food stamps, welfare, unemployment, etc.).

I will stop there lest this thread take a more political tone.

i agree 101%...

 

[swingirl]

Raise retirement age.

I like this idea but try to find a job after 60. No one wants to hire you because they can work the 30-40 year olds to death and they come back for more hoping for a promotion. I know a few 70 year olds that are still working and are healthy enough to do so, but not everyone can function at that age. Eye sight deteriorates, bones ache, medical conditions get worse, etc.

I'd like to see the production jobs come back that would allow senior citizens to do production jobs for less than minimum wage and continue to get their retirement benefits. We don't need to import so many plastic Walmart products when we have people right here that are willing to work.

I also think there is a lot of fraud and abuse with social security.

 

[Black Jade]

At the time the SS system was set up, current demographics were not foreseen.

There are not enough young anymore compared to middle aged and old. when the system was set up, it was unforeseen that children would become a 'choice---and that there wouldn't be enough of them.

All the entitlements also were not foreseen. Define 'need' and 'deserve'. There is definitely a loose definition at this point (and no, I am not referring to anyone's disabled children).

My dad used to say that you can't have anything you can't afford, no matter how much you think you 'need' it. He said, if you can't afford it, do without. We have lost this kind of thinking. We are not using the words but what we are acting out is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Which sounds good-- but look at the past century to see how well it actually works in practice.

I find it so incredible that the governments of Western Europe, who did not take this philosophy to its ultimate extreme, but sure did put a lot of things on the list of what everyone has supposedly has a 'right to' regardless of ability to pay, are now having payback time with bankrupcies, riots over retirement ages that now have to go up and university educations that now have to be paid for by the people receiving them--and we are watching them go into meltdown, but doing the same thing over here that very obviously did not work over there. AND printing money with nothing to back it up to pay for all the entitlements. I'm not half so scared about social security (which I will be very surprised if I ever get any payments back and I'm already in my fifties) as I am about the debt, the deficit, the countries who have bought our debt, and the blindness in Washington about all of it.

 

[JulieN]

Raise retirement age.

I like this idea but try to find a job after 60. No one wants to hire you because they can work the 30-40 year olds to death and they come back for more hoping for a promotion. I know a few 70 year olds that are still working and are healthy enough to do so, but not everyone can function at that age. Eye sight deteriorates, bones ache, medical conditions get worse, etc.

I'd like to see the production jobs come back that would allow senior citizens to do production jobs for less than minimum wage and continue to get their retirement benefits. We don't need to import so many plastic Walmart products when we have people right here that are willing to work.

I also think there is a lot of fraud and abuse with social security.

Maybe we should make firing old people illegal. Like, if AGE + # of YEARS at company >=55, they can't be terminated. Of course, then the young people won't be able to find a job.

 

[FrekeChild]

OK then.. what about children on disability? They obviously haven't paid in... why shouldn't they get SS?

Why SHOULD children get SS? I am not trying to prove a point, I honestly don't understand the reasoning.

I know of many children w/ disabilites collecting SS (including 4 children my parents adopted). I am all for helping those that can't work, but it confuses me (and my parents) why children are getting SS every month. Its not like we expect healthy children to go get jobs and then, therefore, the children that aren't able to work should get SS...children don't work. And its not about the burden on parents bc all children are dependent on their parents. Even my parents agree and they adopted 4 children w/special needs.

I am not referring to medical. I am talking about children getting monthly SS checks. I do not understand the reasoning behind this.

I guess we just won't agree or see eye to eye. I have known quite a few people on SS/ disability and it's not like it's just a walk in the park. That money helps pay for medicare (v v v expensive, as it covers, um LIKE NOTHING). What should a low-income family do if they have a disabled child? Put it down like a dog if they don't have money? Give it up? Go on SS to help pay for medical bills? They might be some SS fraud out there but I would think that most people need it. What can be done about that? Just throw those people in the street? Seniors that worked their entire life.. "Hey thanks for working until you are 72 but... jokes on you!"

I dunno. I don't know the answer, but I also passionately want to help people that need help and deserve it.

I am absoultely NOT referring to medical...the children I know are on state medical---which is SEPERATE than SS--and still receive a SS check every month. That means that they are getting FREE medical and through their towns/cities they are getting their educational needs met. I am not talking about that kind of help---which they get. I am not referring to welfare, food stamps, medical...nor was I referring to people of working age that NEED to support themselves and recieve SS bc they can't. What i am talking about are the many children i know, that have some kind of a disability---they have working parents---and collect an SS check. THAT is what I dont get.

I agree that there are MANY adults that cant work and they should get help . I am not even someone that said it should only go to those that have paid into the system. I am ALL FOR helping those that need it. I just thought that SS is for those that need to SUPPORT THEMSELVES AND CANT....seniors, adults with disabilities. What child supports his/herself? And if the family is that poor, then they are getting state medical and welfare (where I live)...This isnt about those types of services...its about SS.

So I repeat, why does a child get SS (in addition to/not referring to the other aid available to poor families). I even know families where both parents are working and the child gets SS....

Do you really want to know?

I work for a Social Security attorney. This is what I do all day long. We don't really do a lot of children's cases because my boss is more interested in getting psychologically impaired adults off the streets. Out of 420 cases we have ONE children's case. And he just got approved.

So. Children's benefits are actually much easier to get approved than adults. They have to prove that the adult/parent/legal guardian must be unable to work because they are taking care of their children. So the child must require intense care. It's not just a learning disability or ADHD.

Adults have to be able to prove that they cannot work at ANY job in the continental United States. Nothing. Not even a greeter at Wal-mart.

Getting Social Security/Disability is a lot harder than it sounds--and than people who sound like they cheated the system would make you think. There are people who will slip through the system, but it's very very difficult to get approved.

There are two different types of disability benefits:

DIB (Social Security Disability/Disability Income Benefits) = the one you pay into. This amount increases every year that someone works. You're entitled to this one no matter what assets you may have.

SSI (Supplemental Security Income) = paid for by the state. This one has very strict financial guidelines - if your household income is over a certain amount, your benefits decrease or get cut off. The maximum amount of SSI benefits in New Mexico? $674 per month.

You CANNOT be drinking or doing any illegal drugs to get approved. They require some kind of proof of this--urine screens by parole officers, hair tests, etc. They HAVE to be clean. Period. If they aren't, they will be denied. And they are denied because whoever is making the decision at the time can easily say, "Well, if they weren't drinking, they wouldn't be disabled."

There are intense physical and mental exams that a person must go through if Social Security deems it necessary.

There are detailed forms that the person has to fill out about every single thing they do every day, every symptom they experience, etc. They aren't just "What do you do all day?" But more like, "Are you able to take care of personal needs? Do you have any problems with using the restroom? Do you bathe on a regular basis?" Some get more embarrassing...and they don't just ask YOU, they ask your friends/family members.

They have people going through every medical record they can produce about a disabled person from the application/onset date.

Those are just at the initial and reconsideration levels.

The average case spends between 2-3 years in the system from the initial application to a hearing, where most cases are approved. By most I mean probably about 80+%

That's if it doesn't go to Federal/District/Appeals court. Which could potentially take around ten years. AFTER the 2-3 years mentioned above.


I think that if people who are so against people getting money from the government (and I'm not talking about the above people I quoted, or even people on PS, but just in general) spent a couple of days answering phones at my job and dealing with the people who come in, they would reconsider their stance on wanting these people in the workforce.

Because people who are saying that they don't want disabled adults to get government benefits are saying one of two things:
A. They should be in the workforce
B. They should be on the streets

I do NOT want the schizophrenic, bipolar disordered, anger disordered and anxiety ridden woman I talked to today handling my food as my waitress. Which is what she was calling to ask about. "I don't have another choice- I have to work, I have no money. Can I work part time? Maybe as a waitress or something?" Um, well, sure.

I do not want the veteran, who has been living under a bridge, after going to Vietnam who has PTSD, depression, is missing a leg and hits the floor any time there is a loud noise, working as a fast food worker.

I do not want the woman who is a brain cancer survivor with a current IQ of 46 working. At any job.

There are people out there who worked all of their lives, and then didn't work within a certain amount of time and they, even though they paid into the system, cannot collect on their DIB benefits.

There is also a maximum amount you can collect. Those billionaires, if they get disabled and try to collect disability benefits? They can only collect about $2,500 a month. Obviously they've paid in a lot more FICA taxes than that (we hope anyway!).

So, yeah...there are people out there who really need it. Some people really are just lazy and want to take advantage of the system. We don't take those people on as clients.

So, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I'd rather it exist, than not.

ETA: You know what gets my goat? There is a legal sentence in SSA law that reads along the lines of "The claimant must prove that they will be disabled for a period of 12 months or longer."

Why does a claimant have to prove this?

If someone is terminally ill, completely incapacitated and a doctor has given them 6 months to live, Social Security can deny them and save that money, and it's perfectly legal. F-ed up, but LEGAL.

 

[ksinger]

Excellent, informative post Freke. Thanks! It's always good to hear from someone who actually knows about a topic - helps dispel
some of the misconceptions.

 

[lbbaber]

Thank you Freke for that answer and it was very informative but it still did not answer MY question (the one you chose to quote)....I am not referring to adults....nor am I judging ANYONE on SS---that's a debate too big for this forum.....what I asked is WHY do CHILDREN get SS. I do not live in New Mexico like your example but I know NUMEROUS FAMILIES where the parents are WORKING and the child/children get SS benefits (and I am not referring to welfare or state medical). I have even talked to parents that are collecting SS for their children (they BOTH work) and they dont understand it either (although they take the checks every month---why wouldnt they?).

I am not referring to examples where the parents have to quit a job to take care of children either. And keep in mind that poor families with kids with special needs can collect welfare, food stamps and free state medical--so its not about financial need (like someone else answered in response to my question). I am only asking why would a CHILD get SS---a system set up for those that need to take care of themselves BUT CAN'T. Children are not self-sufficiant. They don't support themselves.

And even though I do not want to address how the system works for adults---because it's a joke and will be over with soon anyways---you stated some things as if they are FACT and maybe they are where YOU live but I can guarantee that they are not like that everywhere.

Even though I know MANY people on SS, I HAVE NEVER heard of ANYONE having to take a drug test for either kind of SS.....I just called 3 people I know that collect SS and they laughed at me when I asked if they had to take one ever. I can call more if I need to....Drug tests are not required to get SS where I live (or if they are it is only for a SMALL minority). And it is not necessarily a 2 year process to qualify. Maybe for some "on the fence" cases, but around here I have seen people walk through the process in a few months time MAX.


And your example of who you would want to be your waitress:


"I do NOT want the schizophrenic, bipolar disordered, anger disordered and anxiety ridden woman I talked to today handling my food as my waitress."


So you think that people with mental illness don't (or as you put it SHOULDN'T) wait tables?? I put myself through college waiting tables, I worked with ALL KINDS of people and I can assure you they do and many do it well. Yes, maybe the person you saw this morning is too sick to work but I am sure there are people reading these posts that suffer from some of the problems you mentioned above and are finding that statement offensive . MANY people suffer from mental illness but function in daily life with the help of meds and a good therapist. Why just assume that mental illness means time to give up on life and collect SS?? And for those that HONESTLY can't work? then I am glad we can help them... BUT NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO OR EVEN WANTS TOO. For you to say that someone ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH to work with the public is shocking.

I have an adult sister that is mentally retarded. She can collect SS if she wanted to but SHE REFUSES. Through the help of an organization here in CT called SARAH, she gets up every day at 5am and goes to work. It might not be the most glamorous of jobs (she cleans buildings) but she is PROUD of her work. Now is she another one that you wouldn't want serving you your morning cappuccino?? Or is cleaning toilets more fitting for someone like her?!?!?!

On that note, I think I will leave this topic bc it isn't going to be a polite one if it continues like this.....

 

[Maria D]

ibabber, unlike Freke, I have no insider knowledge of how SSI (Supplemental Security Income) works, so I'm just theorizing, but here goes. Yes, parents are expected to support their children and no child is expected by the government to contribute to family income. So, on the surface, it makes sense that working parents can support their disabled children just as easily/well as they could if those same children were not disabled. So why should they get SSI? The answer is because it is more disabled children can be more expensive to support and not all of these expenses are paid for by medicare or welfare. As an example, any parent would have to pay for childcare for the hours between the end of the school day and the time the parent gets home from work -- but this expense ends eventually; maybe 3rd or 4th grade? The parent of a disabled child may require childcare until well past this age, SSI helps pay for that.

At any rate, the rules to qualify depend on the income of the parents. So your friends with the many disabled adopted kids do not make enough money in the eyes of the government to care for them solely with their income. It's rather disingenuous for them to complain about it and accept the SSI at the same time. It's not like the government came looking for them to give money away, they had to apply for it.

Great post Freke!

 

[lbbaber]

When did I say they were complaining?? I simply said that they dont understand it either...and in their case, it doesnt cost more for them to care for the "disabled" children (and I use that term loosely bc they are really not much different than the average child, these are NOT severe cases), than it does/did for their other children. So that argument isnt true for all cases. And if the need doesnt develop until 3rd or 4th grade like you suggested, then why pay these kids a check for all those years before that?? And we wonder why the system is going broke??

If parents need help with "disabled" children (minors), then something else needs to be set up for them. It shouldnt be out of SS . The government needs to come up with a different system for that kind of need. How do we expect SS to be there for the elderly that have paid in their entire lives when we are giving it to such a BROAD group of people---many of which haven't or can't pay in (minors??) ??? It doesnt take a genius to see that the numbers don't work and the system is failing.

The OP asked how can we fix SS.....my solution is to simply use it for what it was designed. Was it designed to help parents pay for baby sitting?

 

[Maria D]

When did I say they were complaining?? I simply said that they dont understand it either...and in their case, it doesnt cost more for them to care for the "disabled" children (and I use that term loosely bc they are really not much different than the average child, these are NOT severe cases), than it does/did for their other children. So that argument isnt true for all cases. And if the need doesnt develop until 3rd or 4th grade like you suggested, then why pay these kids a check for all those years before that?? And we wonder why the system is going broke??

If parents need help with "disabled" children, then something else needs to be set up for them. It shouldnt be out of SS . The government needs to come up with a different system for that kind of need. How do we expect SS to be there for the elderly that have paid in their entire lives when we are giving it to such a BROAD group of people---many of which haven't or can't pay in??? It doesnt take a genius to see that the numbers don't work and the system is failing.

The OP asked how can we fix SS.....my solution is to simply use it for what it was designed. Was it designed to help parents pay for baby sitting?

I didn't go back and read your exact words about the parents but what is there for them to understand? They *applied* and qualified. As for your last sentence -- no worries then, the government already did come up with a different system for this kind of need! Doesn't take a genius at all, just an inquiring mind and a good search engine. Check it out at: http://www.ssa.gov/ssi/

The very first line is:

Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a Federal income supplement program funded by general tax revenues (not Social Security taxes).

 

[lbbaber]

Well thank you Maria. That was the first time I have ever heard that there is a difference in the 2 (as far as where the money comes out of). I DO NOT collect it myself so I can only go by the word of the people that I interact with on a daily basis who do. It is confusing because even some of those that collect it do not realise that it comes from a different system. That is why, from my 1st post on this thread I have asked why??? Well, if what they are getting is SSI and not SS, and it is coming from somewhere else, then that makes more sense and I THANK YOU for pointing that out to me. I have never been against helping those that HONESTLY need it. I am still not. I just couldn't figure out the SS connection. From the answers in this thread, I do not think that I am the only one confusing the 2...so again, THANK YOU for clearing that part up for me.

It is too bad that so many people out there abuse the system (regardless of which system we are referring to...unemployment, welfare, food stamps, SS, SSI, etc...) because ther are SO MANY people THAT DO need help and some day soon that help will not be there.

Edited to add: As far as this particular family goes, they didnt apply for it....the children were already on it when they adopted them.

 

[FrekeChild]

Well thank you Maria. That was the first time I have ever heard that there is a difference in the 2 (as far as where the money comes out of). I DO NOT collect it myself so I can only go by the word of the people that I interact with on a daily basis who do. It is confusing because even some of those that collect it do not realise that it comes from a different system. That is why, from my 1st post on this thread I have asked why??? Well, if what they are getting is SSI and not SS, and it is coming from somewhere else, then that makes more sense and I THANK YOU for pointing that out to me. I have never been against helping those that HONESTLY need it. I am still not. I just couldn't figure out the SS connection. From the answers in this thread, I do not think that I am the only one confusing the 2...so again, THANK YOU for clearing that part up for me.

It is too bad that so many people out there abuse the system (regardless of which system we are referring to...unemployment, welfare, food stamps, SS, SSI, etc...) because ther are SO MANY people THAT DO need help and some day soon that help will not be there.

Then you didn't read my post. SSI and DIB. Go back and read it again.


Wow! The judgment is rolling off of you in waves! You made a lot of (wrong) assumptions about me and my life. It’s probably better that you bow out, as I have no tolerance for people jumping to conclusions about myself OR what I do, especially when they have minimum information available.

For the record I do not work in your typical attorney’s office. There are no black suits, no heels, and no briefcases. We work out of a tiny house in the student ghetto, and it was designed that way. Why? So as to not be intimidating to people who are scared/paranoid/whatever by the process/system/government. Which is why the dress code is casual–jeans and t-shirts are the norm. I happen to be sitting here at my desk in a dress with a denim jacket and flats. I’m not wearing makeup, much less panty-hose. My boss is more preoccupied with getting people approved than with her getting a pay check. So long as the office’s bills are paid, her staff is paid and she has food to eat, she doesn’t care about getting paid.

Which is good because the way fees work (not that you asked) is that it is based on whatever their back benefits are, we get paid 25%, up to $6,000. This is federally mandated. We have a list of pro bono cases that I’m adding to essentially every day.

I bring all of this up because you gave me the distinct impression that you think I have a cushy job and look down on barristas, servers, etc. Guess what? I worked in the food service industry for over 5 years. I have waited tables. I have seen drug usage/abuse. I have seen severe psychiatric disabilities in person–in functioning adults. Did I mention that I was also a psychology major? I have a reasonable base of knowledge for understanding and discerning psychological disorders. Do I think I know everything? F no!

We need people to do jobs like cleaning offices, working at farms, waiting tables, making fast food. There are a lot of people out there who are capable of working at these jobs and more, and there are a lot of people out there who cannot work at all—and this is most certainly not for a lack of want!

I have people every day who call and say, “I want to work, I loved my job, but I just can’t anymore.” and then we have people calling and saying things like “Well the economy sucks and I can’t find a job because no one is hiring.” Right, because those people are so disabled.

Do I think that anyone with a psychiatric issue should be put out to pasture and out of the work force? No. And I don’t think I came across that way in my first post. I think that any person who has severe enough psychiatric issues, that it’s even a question for, should potentially explore their options for help. We always offer the numbers for the Division of Vocational Rehabilitation–where they do testing and evaluation for whether or not people can work doing SOMETHING. If they can, we don’t take them on as clients. I am not talking about people with depression, or people with bipolar or ANYONE with a psychiatric disorder that can still function relatively normally.

The woman I mentioned before? The one who has numerous psychiatric issues and I don’t think she should be serving food? I named 4 (FOUR!) Of her disabilities. That is by no means a thorough explanation of who this woman is, or what her issues are. From my experience (in this office, as a psych major AND as a server) I do not believe she should be handling or serving food. I have seen her fly off the handle, I have seen her drown in tears. I’m not saying that she shouldn’t TRY to work, but I wouldn’t want to be one of her patrons. I imagine it will certainly be a “failed work attempt”. Everyone should at least try to work.

My conclusions about why you know so many people who are working and their children are getting SSI? Your state’s SSA office is slacking. Here in NM, they are on top of it every single month. If a family has more assets than $2,000 (this does not include a home that you live in or the car you drive) they can get their SSI pulled. If the earnings are more than a certain amount (it varies from person to person and situation to situation!) Then they can cut benefits or eliminate them completely. Perhaps the subjects of your anecdotes aren’t giving you the whole story, OR perhaps your SSA office isn’t on top of it. IN MY EXPERIENCE, the NM office is more than on top of it. I cannot speak for other states.

Welfare (General Assistance) is cut off when disability benefits begin. If you are only eligible for SSI, you have to pay the welfare office back for every cent that they have given you before you were approved.

I never said that a drug test was required. If there are medical records of someone having a substance issue, that needs to be dealt with and there has to be proof that they are not longer using. The government doesn’t care enough to pay for drug tests! It’s much easier, faster and cheaper to deny people!

If you want to talk anedotes, I have thousands upon thousands of specific cases that I have access to. Not to mention contacts at Social Security.

I want to help people that want and need to be helped. I am probably the furthest thing from a corporate schmuck, as is my ex-hippie boss.

Also, the OP has a loooooooooooooooooooong history of posting topics to get people riled up. As usual, it has worked. Hats off to you DF!

 

[lbbaber]

Freke, nowhere in your post did you say that children are not on SS and are on SSI...obviosuly something I DIDN'T know based on my question...I didn't realise that they probably AREN'T getting SS but SSI until Marie pointed that out to me. If you wanted to answer MY question, the one you quoted, then you could have said "they aren't". And Marie is right I could have googled but I didn't even know there was a difference (obviously bc from my 1st post I have asked WHY do children get SS and I got several responses on why they SHOULD but noone saying THEY DONT). So, again, thank you Marie for answering my question.

I am still confused as to why you quoted me bc I was simply asking why do children get SS. I didn't take part in any of the debate about adults collecting SS (bc it has way too many levels to discuss here at PS) so it confuses me as why you chose MY post to quote when SO many people DO HAVE OPINIONS ON ADULTS collecting SS (or maybe it is adults collecting SSI that THEY are referring too??).

The only part of your statement that I found offensive was the part about you not wanting a person with mental illness waiting on you. Maybe you aren't a judgemental person but THAT PARTICULAR STATEMENT came of as if you are. I AM SURE that there are people reading this that suffer from the disorders that YOU CHOSE to point out...It sounded as if you think that those people are not good enough to work a particular job...If you meant something else (like you tried to clarify in your responding post), then the statement should have been worded different. And if you think you said nothing wrong, then why clarify?

I am not going to debate with you.... My question has been answered. Thank you Marie for pointing it out for me (and I do apologize for my ignorance when it comes to CHILDREN collecting SSI/SS)

 

[Black Jade]

Thank you, Frekechild.
You answered a lot of the questions I have had and did it very clearly, in both your posts. I respect what you posted and admire you for doing this kind of work. It was good to have the inside view.
It's true that it is very necessary to have a safety net for disabled/bipolar people.
I will stop sounding off about something that I clearly don't have enough knowledge about.

 

[Maria D]

ibbaber, you're welcome. In reading these last few posts, it seems to me that all our opinions are actually very close -- let's have a safety net for those who truly need it, opportunities for self-reliance for individuals with disabilities, and zero tolerance for abusers of the system.

I'm no economist but I guess the system is broken because the baby boomers are all going to get old and collect at the same time (and probably live too long to boot) with not enough younger workers in the system. Who asked this question about fixing it anyway -- the guy same guy who is always complaining that his daughters are financially irresponsible! Irony much? Dancing Fire, never mind fixing our soc sec system and never mind telling your daughters to start saving now for retirement. They are not going to to do this. Put your own money aside for them in a trust fund so that you can keep supporting them after you are long gone!

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Regarding children: The only way a child can get Social Security benefits is to be the biological child, adopted child or dependent grandchild of a person who worked under the Social Security system and paid Social Security taxes on the earnings. The worker has to be dead or disabled or getting Social Security retirement benefits in order for the child to get paid. Once the child attains 18, he has to be either disabled or still in high school to keep getting paid. SSI is a completely different system - it is a needs based benefit and is not part of Social Security. You can read more about the different benefits at SSA.gov.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Re fixing Social Security: The trust fund was always solvent until Congress started taking money from it to fund other programs & pet projects. Congress needs to quit raiding the trust fund.