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Is the GIA wrong or did I get ripped off?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by hilbell, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. hilbell
    Rough_Rock

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    by hilbell » Mar 19, 2012
    Hi experts. Thanks ahead of time for your insights...
    The center stone in my engagement ring is a 2.5CT E - SI1. According to the GIA ratings, I thought this meant that no flaws should be visible to the naked eye, but it has a black speck in it that I can see most of the time in most lighting conditions. Isn't it only supposed to be visible with 10X magnification? The GIA report does note the flaw, so I do think I have the right GIA report for the stone, but I'm no expert either. I guess my question is, did I get ripped off and is this not properly rated? My family has bought a lot from this jeweler, so I do think that I could go back, but I'm not sure what to ask for.

    Thanks!!
     
    


    


  2. elliemay
    Shiny_Rock

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    by elliemay » Mar 19, 2012
    SI1 will usually mean eye clean, but not always. I've also seen a few threads about VS2 stones that aren't eye clean. And, to complicate it further, your definition of eye clean might not match my definition or your jeweller's definition.

    If you have pics or more info about your stone, I'm sure some of the experts would be able to tell you if you paid too much. (I'm still learning and never have any idea of whether I've paid too much or not! :roll: )
     
  3. Amys Bling
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Amys Bling » Mar 19, 2012
    SI means slightly included- doesn't mean it's eyeclean. You have to confirm that with the vendor and your own eyes..
     
  4. dreamer_dachsie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by dreamer_dachsie » Mar 19, 2012
    I think you should exchange it for a stone that is eye clean for you. Can you do that?
     
    


    


  5. yennyfire
    Ideal_Rock

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    by yennyfire » Mar 19, 2012
    Agreed. Obviously, it bothers you, so either find an eye clean (to your standards) SI1 or move up to a VS2 (and still make sure that it's eye clean to you)....
     
  6. slg47
    Ideal_Rock

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    by slg47 » Mar 19, 2012
    yes, I would go back and look at other diamonds. SI1 does not mean that there are no visible inclusions to the naked eye, however, you may be able to find one that is eye-clean for you.
     
  7. decodelighted
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    by decodelighted » Mar 19, 2012
    I agree with getting a new stone with higher clarity. I think the GIA standards for eye cleanliness are "arms length" w/the naked eye? Something like that? And we all know that's not how real people look at something as personal as an e-ring. Also: once you DO "see" the flaw -- you'll always see it. So you really need something you can't see at all w/the naked eye -- under any circumstances.

    Look at VS1s -- and maybe you can drop color to an "F" or even a "G". (Most people do not see any tint in those colors)
     
  8. Amys Bling
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    by Amys Bling » Mar 19, 2012
    If you can exchange I'd keep looking for a stone that you ate happier With
     
  9. PrincessCath
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    by PrincessCath » Mar 19, 2012
    Sure, there are many definitions of eye-clean. But what is definitely bizarre is that you say the dark spot is not noted on the GIA diagram? That in itself is troublesome.
     
  10. Amys Bling
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Amys Bling » Mar 19, 2012
    that is interesting...
     
    


    


  11. decodelighted
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    by decodelighted » Mar 19, 2012
    I think the GIA report *did* note the flaw, as the quote above shows.
     
  12. MichelleCarmen
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    by MichelleCarmen » Mar 19, 2012
    Since the GIA plot doesn't show the inclusion (which, yes, is disturbing), then maybe rely less on the certificates and more on your own eyes. SIs can show inclusions as can VS2s.

    I would agree about going down a couple of color grades and moving up to a higher clarity so you can't see any inclusions. Don't let the fact that it's a "family jeweler" keep you from trading in the stone. You're not married to this jeweler nor will you interact with this person every day, but you will see your ring every day ;)) Also, maybe consider looking at AGS graded stones!
     
  13. MichelleCarmen
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    by MichelleCarmen » Mar 19, 2012
    Okay, it notes the flaw, but some may look to the plot as more comfort than what the certificate says. I know when I look at certificates, the FIRST thing I look at is the plot map!
     
  14. PrincessCath
    Shiny_Rock

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    by PrincessCath » Mar 19, 2012
    Sorry, I read the original post too fast... :oops:
    True, the chart is the first place I check. An inclusion will not look at all the same whether it is right in the middle of the stone, or tucked under a prong, and yet the stone will be graded the same.
     
  15. Haven
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    by Haven » Mar 19, 2012
    If you have the option of trading it in for a different stone, then I think you should do that. This time, make sure you look at the stone carefully and in different lighting conditions. And definitely don't assume SI1 = eye clean. Everyone's eyes are different. Things that look glaringly obvious to my husband are often invisible to my eye.

    Good luck!
     
    


    


  16. Rockdiamond
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Rockdiamond » Mar 19, 2012
    Hi hilbell,
    Welcome to PS!!

    A lot of good stuff written already- the clarity grade does not speak of "eye clean" only the presence of imperfection ( or lack thereof).

    Bottom line here is that you purchased an expensive diamond, and it sounds like you're not totally satisified.
    Did you see the stone prior to it being set?
    Does the seller have a money back guarantee?
    I'd advise speaking with them sooner rather than later to see if you can get a different stone.
    BTW- you wrote that your stone is 2.5cts....we're missing a decimal place.
    Probably you meant to write 2.50cts.....but I ask to make 100% sure you're looking at a GIA report as opposed to a piece of paper provided by a seller that may imply GIA grades which are not in existence.
    What shape is your new diamond?
     
  17. hilbell
    Rough_Rock

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    by hilbell » Mar 20, 2012
    Thanks to all. This is incredibly helpful. I guess the good news is that I wasn't blatantly ripped off. At least that makes me feel a little better. It won't be that hard for me to go back and say it bothers me.

    To answer your questions, it is a round 2.59 stone and I did look at it before I bought it, but I only looked at it in the store under bright lights, so it looked great to me. They also said it was an Excellent ++ stone (or something of the sort that I can't quite recall) so I was swayed by their enthusiasm about that too. I'm not even sure how that factors in, given it doesn't show in the GIA report.

    Now my only concern is that I think they priced the ring "all in" with the two side stones as well so I don't know what my husband paid for that particular stone. I fear she'll say I need to pay more for something that looks better to me. The odds of finding the exact same size, color, clarity, etc but one that is just "eye clean" to me seems pretty slim, no?

    Good reminder that there's no reason to feel uncomfortable about going back there though. I don't see her every day and I do look at my ring multiple times a day and it has been driving me nuts for a couple of years now. The good news is that she does offer full value exchanges, I believe. Again though, the trick will be to ensure she actually gives me the value we bought this particular stone for.

    Thanks again!
     
  18. Ravinmad
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    by Ravinmad » Mar 20, 2012
    Consider this. If the stone is a few years old the market has gone up quite a bit, and you can likely sell it for greater then you paid for it back 2-3years ago. The troubling part will be the fact that the 2.5ct stone now is going to cost you more then it would have 3 years ago. I did a quick check of F/G colored VS2 stones of 2.5ct size, and they range from $37,000-48,000 for a stone. a 2.5ct H color, VS1 runs $35k.

    http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465234.asp

    So you might consider selling your stone on consignment thru good old gold, and using them to source a new diamond, i am using the JA stones price as just some current market guidelines.

    Good luck
     
  19. MichelleCarmen
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by MichelleCarmen » Mar 20, 2012
    Jewelry store lighting is special lighting to bring out the best in every stone. Some places like Starbucks also have similar lighting! It's best, if possible, to view the same diamond under different lights and in regular daylight, if possible.
     
  20. dreamer_dachsie
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    by dreamer_dachsie » Mar 20, 2012
    Can you please tell us the price you paid and also post the GIA report number? We can look it up for you and tell you what a fair market value would be, and help you negotiate for a replacement.
     
  21. Texas Leaguer
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Texas Leaguer » Mar 20, 2012
    Something to bear in mind when talking about "eye clean" is the size of the diamond in question. It is not unusual for Si inclusions in bigger stones to be visible to the naked eye. But it is highly unlikely that you will ever see an Si1 inclusion in a 30 pointer.

    The clarity call is to some extent a relative one. That is, the allowable size inclusion for an Si1 in a 2.50ct stone is greater than it would be in a one carat stone. If you could pluck that inclusion out and put it in a smaller stone it could easily cause the grade to be Si2.

    So the determination of eye-clean in any diamond is fixed- you can either see it or you can't. But the clarity grade is somewhat relative to the size of the host.
     
  22. hilbell
    Rough_Rock

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    by hilbell » Mar 21, 2012

    Hi Dreamer. We bought the ring and stones in the diamond district in NY along with two other stones for $45,400 total, so either we got an amazing deal or prices have gone up substantially.

    Below are the details on the three stones, including GIA for the one in question:
    2.59CT E-SI1 GIA is 2101770532 (this is the one that has the inclusion that bothers me)
    1.2CT E-SI1
    1.2CT E-SI1
    18KYG Shank w platinum head

    Thinking of selling it elsewhere and buying a new one brings a whole new set of questions. Is the price pretty much fixed based on the GIA or how much "wiggle room" would there be? Where to go to look for a new one? Why not just do a "like" exchange with her?

    Thanks!
     

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