Is the 32.6 crown angle acceptable?

[Passengers46]

Hi people,

I'm new to diamonds, and I made my first diamond purchase online last week for an engagement ring. I was wondering if someone can help me determine if I purchased a quality diamond with good performance. At the time of purchase, I didn't know the concept of "cut", "hearts and arrows", or ideal diamond proportions. Considering the above, I'm not sure if I found a good fit. I was more focused on finding a diamond that fits the triple excellent category, is colourless/ near colorless and has good clarity. I recently learned that just because a diamond is triple excellent doesn't mean it has good proportions or optical symmetry. My biggest concern about the diamond is the 32.6 crown angle paired with the 40.6 pavilion angle. I am worried about the arrows being "off" and the light performance lacking. The diamond I purchased is IGI, so I'm guessing there's a fair chance the grades are inflated, and I could have paid more for a lower graded diamond. I purchased is from James Allen and I have time to cancel the order if needed. The price paid was CA $4,127. I don't know if they offer idealscope images. The HCA reading was 0.9 with excellent in each category except light return which scored very good. I am aware the tool is not used for selection, but for elimination. Maybe I'm overthinking it, and the diamond is fine. Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

Here is a link to the diamond: http://jamesallen.com/loose-diamond...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5454215

 

[lovedogs]

Hi people,

I'm new to diamonds, and I made my first diamond purchase online last week for an engagement ring. I was wondering if someone can help me determine if I purchased a quality diamond with good performance. At the time of purchase, I didn't know the concept of "cut", "hearts and arrows", or ideal diamond proportions. Considering the above, I'm not sure if I found a good fit. I was more focused on finding a diamond that fits the triple excellent category, is colourless/ near colorless and has good clarity. I recently learned that just because a diamond is triple excellent doesn't mean it has good proportions or optical symmetry. My biggest concern about the diamond is the 32.6 crown angle paired with the 40.6 pavilion angle. I am worried about the arrows being "off" and the light performance lacking. The diamond I purchased is IGI, so I'm guessing there's a fair chance the grades are inflated, and I could have paid more for a lower graded diamond. I purchased is from James Allen and I have time to cancel the order if needed. The price paid was CA $4,127. I don't know if they offer idealscope images. The HCA reading was 0.9 with excellent in each category except light return which scored very good. I am aware the tool is not used for selection, but for elimination. Maybe I'm overthinking it, and the diamond is fine. Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

Here is a link to the diamond: http://jamesallen.com/loose-diamond...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5454215

If I were you I would cancel the order and try to find a better stone. IGI is not trustworthy as a grading lab, so you are definitely overpaying for color/cut/clarity that are inflated. We can help you find something better! What's your preferred stone budget?

 

[OoohShiny]

The HCA score indicates the crown and pavilion angles work together but a lower crown angle means more white light return and reduced opportunity for coloured fire.

 

[lovedogs]

The HCA score indicates the crown and pavilion angles work together but a lower crown angle means more white light return and reduced opportunity for coloured fire.

True, but my bigger worry is that the lab numbers aren't reliable, so even though those #s work in theory, I doubt they are accurate.

 

[bmfang]

Hi people,

I'm new to diamonds, and I made my first diamond purchase online last week for an engagement ring. I was wondering if someone can help me determine if I purchased a quality diamond with good performance. At the time of purchase, I didn't know the concept of "cut", "hearts and arrows", or ideal diamond proportions. Considering the above, I'm not sure if I found a good fit. I was more focused on finding a diamond that fits the triple excellent category, is colourless/ near colorless and has good clarity. I recently learned that just because a diamond is triple excellent doesn't mean it has good proportions or optical symmetry. My biggest concern about the diamond is the 32.6 crown angle paired with the 40.6 pavilion angle. I am worried about the arrows being "off" and the light performance lacking. The diamond I purchased is IGI, so I'm guessing there's a fair chance the grades are inflated, and I could have paid more for a lower graded diamond. I purchased is from James Allen and I have time to cancel the order if needed. The price paid was CA $4,127. I don't know if they offer idealscope images. The HCA reading was 0.9 with excellent in each category except light return which scored very good. I am aware the tool is not used for selection, but for elimination. Maybe I'm overthinking it, and the diamond is fine. Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

Here is a link to the diamond: http://jamesallen.com/loose-diamond...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5454215

IGI generally is not as reliable a lab for colour and clarity grading (though YMMV on this front as I have heard IGI’s Indian labs are pretty good on that front compared with other IGI labs).

There will be very little need for an inclusion plot on this stone given it is VVS2.

HCA tends to prefer stones with shallow crown and relatively high pavilion. This stone is likely to be more of a 60/60 style which prioritises white light return over fire and scintillation. Nothing wrong with that. Just a different type of diamond light performance wise.

This stone will definitely not be a H&A stone based off that video. An excellent cut grade does not guarantee H&A patterning. Not all cutters can cut H&A stones to the tolerances that are required.

JA can request IS images but it’s at the discretion of the ultimate vendor as to whether they will provide them or not.

 

[Passengers46]

If I were you I would cancel the order and try to find a better stone. IGI is not trustworthy as a grading lab, so you are definitely overpaying for color/cut/clarity that are inflated. We can help you find something better! What's your preferred stone budget?

My budget is CA $4200. I want 0.7 carats.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Cancel. Buy GIA Excellent cut only. Use the measurements below to screen the stones and come back with the links of possible stones and we will help you.

Table: 54-57
Depth: 60-62.3
Crown angle: 34-35 (maybe up to 35.5 if the pav angle is 40.6)
Pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9

 

[Passengers46]

The HCA score indicates the crown and pavilion angles work together but a lower crown angle means more white light return and reduced opportunity for coloured fire.

That's interesting and good to know. Thanks.

 

[Passengers46]

IGI generally is not as reliable a lab for colour and clarity grading (though YMMV on this front as I have heard IGI’s Indian labs are pretty good on that front compared with other IGI labs).

There will be very little need for an inclusion plot on this stone given it is VVS2.

HCA tends to prefer stones with shallow crown and relatively high pavilion. This stone is likely to be more of a 60/60 style which prioritises white light return over fire and scintillation. Nothing wrong with that. Just a different type of diamond light performance wise.

This stone will definitely not be a H&A stone based off that video. An excellent cut grade does not guarantee H&A patterning. Not all cutters can cut H&A stones to the tolerances that are required.

JA can request IS images but it’s at the discretion of the ultimate vendor as to whether they will provide them or not.

I'm aware it's not close to H&A. I was just wondering if the arrows are within the very good range.

 

[Passengers46]

Cancel. Buy GIA Excellent cut only. Use the measurements below to screen the stones and come back with the links of possible stones and we will help you.

Table: 54-57
Depth: 60-62.3
Crown angle: 34-35 (maybe up to 35.5 if the pav angle is 40.6)
Pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9

Cancel. Buy GIA Excellent cut only. Use the measurements below to screen the stones and come back with the links of possible stones and we will help you.

Table: 54-57
Depth: 60-62.3
Crown angle: 34-35 (maybe up to 35.5 if the pav angle is 40.6)
Pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9

If only james allen

What do you think of this one:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5377217

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That stone looks good other than the depth is 62.7 which might mean it faces up smaller than it should in diameter. I also would want excellent for symmetry. It's not a bad choice, but I'd look a little more. I assume you want colorless, but I'd encourage you to consider VS1 clarity because those are totally clean to the eye and even with a 10x loupe, usually. That would add some more stones to consider.

 

[sledge]

First off, congrats on reaching this next level in your life!

As for the diamond, it is not one that I would recommend. As others noted, IGI is not a trustworthy lab. Additionally the crown and pavilion angles are not complimentary. If graded using the AGS proportions charts, you'd rank very good (VG). We want to find a stone that will rank ideal for maximum sparkle.



Is there are a reason you are seeking such high color & clarity? VVS2 is overkill, especially on a stone of that size. You could easily drop down to an SI1 or VS2 and remain eye clean. Although I do understand some cultures, especially Asian, prefers high color & high clarity.

 

[Passengers46]

First off, congrats on reaching this next level in your life!

As for the diamond, it is not one that I would recommend. As others noted, IGI is not a trustworthy lab. Additionally the crown and pavilion angles are not complimentary. If graded using the AGS proportions charts, you'd rank very good (VG). We want to find a stone that will rank ideal for maximum sparkle.



Is there are a reason you are seeking such high color & clarity? VVS2 is overkill, especially on a stone of that size. You could easily drop down to an SI1 or VS2 and remain eye clean. Although I do understand some cultures, especially Asian, prefers high color & high clarity.

Thank you! I want to propose on her birthday next week, but now I'm wondering if I should wait to find a better performing diamond.

I am looking at high clarity grades as I'm picky with imperfections, but then again I was looking at the 40x magnification.

 

[Passengers46]

That stone looks good other than the depth is 62.7 which might mean it faces up smaller than it should in diameter. I also would want excellent for symmetry. It's not a bad choice, but I'd look a little more. I assume you want colorless, but I'd encourage you to consider VS1 clarity because those are totally clean to the eye and even with a 10x loupe, usually. That would add some more stones to consider.

Thanks, I will keep looking to see what's out there. I do prefer colourless, and I don't mind going lower on the clarity.

 

[bmfang]

Thank you! I want to propose on her birthday next week, but now I'm wondering if I should wait to find a better performing diamond.

I am looking at high clarity grades as I'm picky with imperfections, but then again I was looking at the 40x magnification.

Wait until you find a better performing stone.

You can drop down clarity wise to a VS2 and likely maintain high colour grade and also a size bump too.

The magnified images and videos are good to have but can cause “mind clean” issues on stones that otherwise have ideal light performance.

 

[Snowdrop13]

How about this one?

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3945626.htm

 

[sledge]

FYI, Google is showing the current USD-CAD exchange rate @ 1.32. That said...

• $3,200 USD = 4,200 CAD

0.76ct F VS2, AGS000 Ideal
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-f-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-5985353

If you can stretch your budget, this would be worthwhile....

AGS and GIA are both well respected & trusted labs. So why guess with GIA XXX when you can have an AGS000? AGS is the preferred certification when available because they utilize advanced techniques to measure cut quality. GIA doesn't do this. While all AGS000 stones will meet GIA XXX requirements, only very few GIA XXX stones will ever meet AGS000 requirements.


0.74ct D VS2, GIA XXX
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...d-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5502017

Since JA deals so much in virtual inventory, many of their stones are available at other retailers. This particular stone fits that criteria and FourMine has it for $2,762USD (or 3,653CAD). Present this link and JA will price match.

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamo...ce=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018


0.73ct E VVS2, GIA XXX
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6050000

Again, you need to play the price match game to get a deal. Enchanted Diamonds is the low price @ $2,930 USD (or 3,875CAD) but Yadav is right on there heels.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R73-619056Z32?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.73-carat-e-vvs2-yd4210134


0.72ct G VVS1, GIA XXX
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5148489

35.5 crown is upper limits of steepness but pairs very nicely with shallow 40.6 pavilion and will produce lots of fire.

And again, price match wars, lol. You've got a few more here, but Parcel & Stone is low @ $2,412USD (or 3,190CAD).

https://parcelandstone.com/diamond/...727708090?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamo...ce=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.72-carat-g-vvs1-yd3927903


0.71ct F VS1, GIA XXX
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...f-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5240931

Same concerns with 35.5 crown but again a shallow 40.6 pavilion. Still in ideal parameters, but you want to request an idealscope and/or ASET image to confirm it's okay. Same deal on the G above.

I didn't find any price match deals on this, so it might be an actual stone that JA has in-house.

 

[kmoro]

I’m just going to say this:

You are very fortunate to get on the PS forum before your purchase was final!

I think my guess is good that people will advise you to cancel and help you find a better diamond.

You’re going to end up really happy with the final purchase!

Good luck!

 

[bmfang]

The AGS graded stone at JA that @sledge posted is my preference out of all the ones he linked to.m
After that it’s the last one (the 0.71 F VS2) that has my eye.

 

[sledge]

How about this one?

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3945626.htm

If you want to propose next week, this is a risk free purchase that requires little brain activity and allows you to just hit the purchase button. It has some proportions I'd like to see a little different but it's still very, very good. More importantly it has all the performance and symmetry images to prove it's a great stone and it has AGS000 certification and fits within your budget!

Not to mention WF is a preferred vendor that has excellent trade-in policies and is known for their awesome customer service. If I only had a week to get this done, WF is the only one of the group thus far I'd trust with the task. Period.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, I'd say go to Whiteflash if you want to propose next week. They have top cut quality diamonds and they are in house so there is a possibility of getting the ring done in a week if you contact them tomorrow morning. You'll get more personal attention there as they have a different business model than JA.

This one (already posted) is a beauty:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3945626.htm

(It is GIA graded but has the light return images to show it is top cut. GIA is strict on color grading, so the stone should look nice and white.)

 

[sledge]

Thank you! I want to propose on her birthday next week, but now I'm wondering if I should wait to find a better performing diamond.

I am looking at high clarity grades as I'm picky with imperfections, but then again I was looking at the 40x magnification.

As others said, definitely get a better diamond. The challenge will be the time frame. The thing I dislike about most JA options and many of the others listed above is the stones are not kept in-house and instead drop shipped from the cutters (usually overseas). It will make getting a stone in that time frame very difficult. As I mentioned earlier, that WF stone is in-house in Houston and they can hit your deadline.

Also, try not to get too hung up on imperfections at 40x. It's unrealistic. No one carries a scope around in their pocket to inspect your stone, and if they try you should slap them silly! A good definition of eye clean is no imperfections visible from 10" looking down at the top of the stone with 20/20 vision and in good lighting conditions. Many SI1 stones will meet this criteria, and most VS2's will meet or exceed this as well.

 

[sledge]

If you want to propose next week, this is a risk free purchase that requires little brain activity and allows you to just hit the purchase button. It has some proportions I'd like to see a little different but it's still very, very good. More importantly it has all the performance and symmetry images to prove it's a great stone and it has AGS000 certification and fits within your budget!

Not to mention WF is a preferred vendor that has excellent trade-in policies and is known for their awesome customer service. If I only had a week to get this done, WF is the only one of the group thus far I'd trust with the task. Period.

Oops, I misspoke earlier. That particular stone is a GIA XXX, not AGS000. However, the performance images prove it's a performer and would likely meet AGS000 certification if sent for AGS accreditation.

Here are a few more options from WF.

ACA 0.705ct D SI1 @ $3,248USD
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3982390.htm

Proportions are freakin' amazing and this is from their top tier A Cut Above (ACA) line. Also, best color and while SI1, it's eye clean! Gorgeous!!! This is the one I'd buy personally!

 

[bmfang]

That GIA WF Premium Select stone is one of the best I’ve seen in that range.

 

[Passengers46]

Thanks you all for the great responses . I have since cancelled my order with JA, and ordered an engagement ring from WF. I decided to order the GIA premium select stone that was recommended. I contacted WF, and they said they are upgrading my deliver service to FedEx priority overnight shipping to meet my timeframe. My ring will be Delivered on December 1st, and available for pickup at a local post office by 11am!! I can't believe it, the timeframe sounds too good to be true. I couldn't have made this happen without all of your recommendations! I'm so excited to propose this week!

 

[natasha-cupcake]

Wonderful news! Congratulations and wishing you an exciting and happy proposal. Please come back and post photos when you have a chance.

 

[sledge]

Thanks you all for the great responses . I have since cancelled my order with JA, and ordered an engagement ring from WF. I decided to order the GIA premium select stone that was recommended. I contacted WF, and they said they are upgrading my deliver service to FedEx priority overnight shipping to meet my timeframe. My ring will be Delivered on December 1st, and available for pickup at a local post office by 11am!! I can't believe it, the timeframe sounds too good to be true. I couldn't have made this happen without all of your recommendations! I'm so excited to propose this week!

Congratulations! Excellent choice that will wow her and you! I never once had a doubt in my mind that WF would pull off your miracle. Be sure to post back with pics of the finished bling and your proposal story. Good luck!

 

[Snowdrop13]

Thanks you all for the great responses . I have since cancelled my order with JA, and ordered an engagement ring from WF. I decided to order the GIA premium select stone that was recommended. I contacted WF, and they said they are upgrading my deliver service to FedEx priority overnight shipping to meet my timeframe. My ring will be Delivered on December 1st, and available for pickup at a local post office by 11am!! I can't believe it, the timeframe sounds too good to be true. I couldn't have made this happen without all of your recommendations! I'm so excited to propose this week!

Fantastic! All the very best with your proposal, please, please come back and show us the hand shots!

 

[ringo865]

!!yay!!! And of course pics and deets!

 

[Passengers46]

I will definetly post pictures! My ring just shipped out with tracking information, and is scheduled to arrive on Friday . 4 days from placing an order to delivery is incredibly fast. Now I know why they're called White "FLASH". I'm so happy! I was getting nervous and beginning to think I would have to propose with a temporary ring. All that worrying for nothing lol. They have a great team.