Is skin bleaching just the same as getting a tan?

[kenny]

Light skinned people want to look darker and that's not just socially acceptable, it's widely encouraged.
But I hear a lot of criticism of darker-skinned people lightening their skin.
Why is there more criticism of the later?

I doubt either is healthy for the body, but isn't altering your natural skin tone in either direction the same thing?
Why is one socially acceptable while the other is looked down upon?

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27833833

 

[distracts]

My guess would be because one is done by white people and one is done by POC. So, racism.

Also, I think people don't thoroughly understand how tanning is dangerous, and in the western world our first knowledge of skin-lightening is usually through a "gone wrong" story - or Michael Jackson - whereas we see lots of tan people with nothing immediately wrong with them.

 

[momhappy]

Sure, the act of lightening and darkening is the same process, but whether or not it is the same or different, depends on the motivation behind it. If you are lightening to achieve the look of a different race, then that's not the same as tanning for vanity and/or superficial reasons (or vice versa).
I don't agree that it's simply "racist" because one is done by black people and one is done by white people (black people are not the only race to engage in skin-lightening….).

 

[OreoRosies86]

Tanning: the "desireable" complexion. Apparently promotes the idea of health in that you must be leading an active outdoor life in which sun exposure is present. Those are surfacy reasons which are not rooted in a person's culture and heritage.

Bleaching: in just scratching the surface of slavery, persecution, racism, and the civil rights movement, it is no secret why bleaching is frowned upon. I think the general consensus is something like "Why are you trying to look white? You should be proud of who you are."

Again, this is just a brief unfiltered answer. Obviously many other cultures strive for the lighter shade too and don't get grief for it.

 

[momhappy]

Tanning: the "desireable" complexion. Apparently promotes the idea of health in that you must be leading an active outdoor life in which sun exposure is present. Those are surfacy reasons which are not rooted in a person's culture and heritage.

Bleaching: in just scratching the surface of slavery, persecution, racism, and the civil rights movement, it is no secret why bleaching is frowned upon. I think the general consensus is something like "Why are you trying to look white? You should be proud of who you are."

Again, this is just a brief unfiltered answer. Obviously many other cultures strive for the lighter shade too and don't get grief for it.

Well-said - I agree

 

[distracts]

Sure, the act of lightening and darkening is the same process, but whether or not it is the same or different, depends on the motivation behind it. If you are lightening to achieve the look of a different race, then that's not the same as tanning for vanity and/or superficial reasons (or vice versa).
I don't agree that it's simply "racist" because one is done by black people and one is done by white people (black people are not the only race to engage in skin-lightening….).

Nor are they the only race you can be racist about. I had not even clicked the link until after I posted, so I was assuming this was about Asia or India.

I do think the motivations are different, but I would think the motivation of being lighter to achieve social status that is difficult to get as a darker-skinned person (as it is in apparently almost all cultures?) is far more understandable than tanning for... whatever reason people do it. I think the reasons behind skin lightening have a racial or at least colorist component, at least due in part (large part?) because of the supremacy of white culture over the last century, and the judgement of it is definitely racist - there's often a hint of "why can't these POC just accept their place in life?"

If you look at cultures where women bleach their skin, if you look at high profile men, and things like music videos and movies, you'll often see that the ultimate status symbol is a fair-skinned white woman. Not a fair-skinned woman of their own race. imo that indicates pretty strongly that there's a racial component...

 

[kenny]

I don't know.
I see changing your natural skin color to be not so different from wearing make up, botox, liposuction, dieting for appearance reasons.

Almost everyone wants to look differently from what's natural for them.
Since that's how companies make money off us the conditioning starts early ... Barbie anyone?
Invent a problem, then sell them the solution.

You don't have to buy into social pressure to conform to appearance X, whatever that is for your group.
The only thing I do to alter my natural appearance is shower, shave, get haircuts and clip my nails.
I'm saying that's better, but it does save money.

Many lesbians embrace their natural appearance, no make up, comfortable shoes etc.
Bless their souls.
(Obviously not ALL lesbians.)

 

[kenny]

I had not even clicked the link until after I posted, so I was assuming this was about Asia or India.

It is a recording of a famous woman in Kenya responding to criticism for lightening her skin.

QUOTE "The Kenyan socialite Vera Sidika has defended her decision to lighten her skin in an interview with BBC Trending.

As we reported on this blog, Sidika was criticised on social media for spending as much as $170,000 on skin lightening. People shared their opinions online using the hashtag #BleachedBeauty.

Sidika, often dubbed "Kenya's Kim Kardashian", told BBC Trending she has no regrets and blames society for encouraging skin lightening."

 

[kenny]

We are even accepting of men and women changing their gender, for goodness sake.

I say, let people look however they want.
It's their own dang business.
They do not have to explain.

 

[Indylady]

Tanning: the "desireable" complexion. Apparently promotes the idea of health in that you must be leading an active outdoor life in which sun exposure is present. Those are surfacy reasons which are not rooted in a person's culture and heritage.

Bleaching: in just scratching the surface of slavery, persecution, racism, and the civil rights movement, it is no secret why bleaching is frowned upon. I think the general consensus is something like "Why are you trying to look white? You should be proud of who you are."

Again, this is just a brief unfiltered answer. Obviously many other cultures strive for the lighter shade too and don't get grief for it.

You analysis of bleaching is not correct. No POC is trying to look white by bleaching their skin; rather, bleaching implies the same that tanning does--for POC, bleaching their skin has the same desirable socioeconomic commentary as tanning--light skin means someone is not doing labor by working outside in the sun.

Yes, slavery, persecution, and racism have a lot to do with the issue when it comes to skin lightening in America, but even here, POC are not trying to look 'white'. Lighter skin may seem prized since there are many light skinned POC in the media, etc. but no one is trying to actually look white.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Tanning: the "desireable" complexion. Apparently promotes the idea of health in that you must be leading an active outdoor life in which sun exposure is present. Those are surfacy reasons which are not rooted in a person's culture and heritage.

Bleaching: in just scratching the surface of slavery, persecution, racism, and the civil rights movement, it is no secret why bleaching is frowned upon. I think the general consensus is something like "Why are you trying to look white? You should be proud of who you are."

Again, this is just a brief unfiltered answer. Obviously many other cultures strive for the lighter shade too and don't get grief for it.

You analysis of bleaching is not correct. No POC is trying to look white by bleaching their skin; rather, bleaching implies the same that tanning does--for POC, bleaching their skin has the same desirable socioeconomic commentary as tanning--light skin means someone is not doing labor by working outside in the sun.

Yes, slavery, persecution, and racism have a lot to do with the issue when it comes to skin lightening in America, but even here, POC are not trying to look 'white'. Lighter skin may seem prized since there are many light skinned POC in the media, etc. but no one is trying to actually look white.

I didn't just pull my answer out of thin air, nor is it a blanket statement that applies to all. I don't think it is entirely fair to just dismiss the validity of how some real people feel about the issue.

 

[Indylady]

Who are the real people that feel that way? Are you a person of color yourself?

 

[OreoRosies86]

Nope, not at all. I'm white white. I reflect light back up at the sun probably.

When Kenny first posed the question I thought "Hm. I have my opinion, let me ask social media." Every single POC (another term I don't care for; we're all a color) said the same thing.

Beyonce caused a lot of controversy in skin bleaching when she was advertising for some beauty product brand I forget. Her pale skin and straight blonde hair was harshly received by many who feel their dark skin and natural hair are not being represented in advertising.

Maybe those people don't actually know why it bothers them and Beyonce is just an easy target?

FWIW I fully support whatever people choose to do to feel their best and most beautiful.

 

[AprilBaby]

I'm not sure it's racist. Ask DF? I think Asian women prize white skin as a social status that they don't work in fields? Korean women lighten the skin. Why? Not for racism. Brazilian women do too. Unblemished light skin seems highly prized. I'm trying really hard to get rid of my freckles and keep my skin very pale to avoid cancer. If I understand correctly, black culture cares more about light skinned black women than white people do. Gosh, I feel like I'm rambling.......

 

[pregcurious]

I'm not sure it's racist. Ask DF? I think Asian women prize white skin as a social status that they don't work in fields? Korean women lighten the skin. Why? Not for racism. Brazilian women do too. Unblemished light skin seems highly prized. I'm trying really hard to get rid of my freckles and keep my skin very pale to avoid cancer. If I understand correctly, black culture cares more about light skinned black women than white people do. Gosh, I feel like I'm rambling.......

I think you've hit upon something important here. There are different reasons for skin lightening. It is not always to look white. Young looking, protected skin is prized in many cultures. Darkened, age-spotted skin isn't prized in any culture.

Skin lightening is not always frowned upon either. In Malaysia, you'll find that many body lotions that you buy at a regular drug store have skin lighteners.

 

[kenny]

In Malaysia, you'll find that many body lotions that you buy at a regular drug store have skin lighteners.

I recently heard a white guy complain about his visit to Africa.
The weather made his skin dry so he shopped for lotion.
EVERY lotion for sale in EVERY store contained skin-lightener.

 

[ponder]

I'm not sure it's racist. Ask DF? I think Asian women prize white skin as a social status that they don't work in fields? Korean women lighten the skin. Why? Not for racism. Brazilian women do too. Unblemished light skin seems highly prized. I'm trying really hard to get rid of my freckles and keep my skin very pale to avoid cancer. If I understand correctly, black culture cares more about light skinned black women than white people do. Gosh, I feel like I'm rambling.......

I think you've hit upon something important here. There are different reasons for skin lightening. It is not always to look white. Young looking, protected skin is prized in many cultures. Darkened, age-spotted skin isn't prized in any culture.

Skin lightening is not always frowned upon either. In Malaysia, you'll find that many body lotions that you buy at a regular drug store have skin lighteners.

Disclaimer: I'm white, a lot naive at times. I was shocked that people still arranged marriages, that Pearl Cream is real, and that people discriminate within their own race.

I have had this discussion about skin color, lightening creams, and discrimination with three of my girl friends. One Taiwanese, one Indian, and my best friend who is a VERY light skinned black women (she refers to herself as black).

My lab partner in college was from India, and from a very traditional family (her parents offered to arrange a marriage for her). As we were discussing this whole arranged marriage thing she told me that her parents wouldn't be happy if she married a white guy, but would be even more unhappy if she married a darker Indian guy. She told me that the traditional cast system in India is strongly segregated by the darkness of your skin which stereotypically indicates that you of a lower class because darker skin indicates the necessity to labor in the sun. She was encouraged by her mother to use skin lighteners to combat the effects of the sun so that she wouldn't look darker.

My Taiwanese friend would endlessly complain about how she hated to visit her grandmother because she would hound her endlessly about her freckles and her tan. She would literally chase my friend around the house with a jar of Pearl Cream lightening lotion and tell her that she looked like a field worker.

My best friend, who is so light that she is fairly racially ambiguous, told me that she uses a lightener on acne scars and under arm areas to combat hyper pigmentation. If her grandmother would see darker areas she would get onto her about not using a lightening lotion. She told me that lightening lotions are really common but that point for her is simply clear even skin and not necessarily looking lighter. She had known women to use it to lighten their overall skin tone because it is more highly regarded in her culture. She also was discouraged by her family from dating men who were significantly darker than her.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I'm not sure it's racist. Ask DF? I think Asian women prize white skin as a social status that they don't work in fields? Korean women lighten the skin. Why? Not for racism. Brazilian women do too. Unblemished light skin seems highly prized. I'm trying really hard to get rid of my freckles and keep my skin very pale to avoid cancer. If I understand correctly, black culture cares more about light skinned black women than white people do. Gosh, I feel like I'm rambling.......

That's very true according to old Chinese culture, plus Chinese women with lighter skin will look much younger than their age.

 

[Indylady]

Sure, the act of lightening and darkening is the same process, but whether or not it is the same or different, depends on the motivation behind it. If you are lightening to achieve the look of a different race, then that's not the same as tanning for vanity and/or superficial reasons (or vice versa).
I don't agree that it's simply "racist" because one is done by black people and one is done by white people (black people are not the only race to engage in skin-lightening….).

Nor are they the only race you can be racist about. I had not even clicked the link until after I posted, so I was assuming this was about Asia or India.

I do think the motivations are different, but I would think the motivation of being lighter to achieve social status that is difficult to get as a darker-skinned person (as it is in apparently almost all cultures?) is far more understandable than tanning for... whatever reason people do it. I think the reasons behind skin lightening have a racial or at least colorist component, at least due in part (large part?) because of the supremacy of white culture over the last century, and the judgement of it is definitely racist - there's often a hint of "why can't these POC just accept their place in life?"

If you look at cultures where women bleach their skin, if you look at high profile men, and things like music videos and movies, you'll often see that the ultimate status symbol is a fair-skinned white woman. Not a fair-skinned woman of their own race. imo that indicates pretty strongly that there's a racial component...

Where is this the case? I have traveled extensively and lived overseas as well; to the Middle East, South Asia, and East Asia--I do not know of a single place where the ultimate standard of beauty or status symbol is a white woman.

 

[Sky56]

The problem is that few are satisfied with their natural looks. I'm as white as a person can be (close to albino in skin tone and pale blonde hair) and as a child was told I was freakish by other white people.

 

[stracci2000]

I think the bottom line, as many here have pointed out, is about appearing to be of a higher class.
Anyone who was unfortunate to have to work in the fields would become darker from the sun. Anyone who was pale, was obviously not spending time outdoors, and therefore was wealthy.

So, it goes the other way, in more recent times, during the industrial age, when people were stuck inside factories, or even mines, for long hours, they became pale and sickly from no sun exposure. So therefore the wealthy class traveled, lolled about on fancy beaches, played tennis, etc, and tanning became a symbol of leisure and wealth.

Same thing for other standards of beauty. Heavy women with Rubenesque proportions were well fed and pale, when the rest of the population was starving and dark skinned. This was desireable, as women even wore bustles and hoop skirts to give the impression of big hips. In modern times lower class women are well fed on junk food, but the wealthy class wants to be far away from that, so if you don't eat much in these bountiful times, you will be thin, and tanned. So there is your modern beauty standard.
This is all my opinion, and some of you may disagree.

 

[missy]

The problem is that few are satisfied with their natural looks. I'm as white as a person can be (close to albino in skin tone and pale blonde hair) and as a child was told I was freakish by other white people.

Ditto Sky. To this day people still comment about how pale I am. I was away at the beach for 2 weeks and am as white as when I left (because I continually apply sunblock for my protection against the UV rays) and people think something is wrong with that. Looking pale after a beach vacation that is.

I think it's just another way to keep people down. I mean, it's a crying shame it really is that in so many (maybe all?) cultures people are never "good" enough and fueled of course by the media. It's big business. We cannot be comfortable in our own skin.

Personally I think it's all rubbish and the fact that many people play into this dissatisfaction with their appearance is a tragedy. But it is what it is and I doubt things will ever be that dramatically different when it comes to just accepting one's appearance and making peace with it and even embracing and loving oneself for who they are and what they look like... no matter if it doesn't fit into the "perfect" standard. Whatever that is.

 

[Sky56]

^ Well said. Billions of dollars are at stake if each of us were pleased with our skin color and other aspects of our appearance.

 

[monarch64]

The problem is that few are satisfied with their natural looks. I'm as white as a person can be (close to albino in skin tone and pale blonde hair) and as a child was told I was freakish by other white people.

Ditto Sky. To this day people still comment about how pale I am. I was away at the beach for 2 weeks and am as white as when I left (because I continually apply sunblock for my protection against the UV rays) and people think something is wrong with that. Looking pale after a beach vacation that is.

I think it's just another way to keep people down. I mean, it's a crying shame it really is that in so many (maybe all?) cultures people are never "good" enough and fueled of course by the media. It's big business. We cannot be comfortable in our own skin.

Personally I think it's all rubbish and the fact that many people play into this dissatisfaction with their appearance is a tragedy. But it is what it is and I doubt things will ever be that dramatically different when it comes to just accepting one's appearance and making peace with it and even embracing and loving oneself for who they are and what they look like... no matter if it doesn't fit into the "perfect" standard. Whatever that is.

Missy, I agree with you. Kind of like a controlling partner who puts you down and makes you feel inferior to keep you under their rule--that's how the masses have been kept docile for thousands of years now.

 

[partgypsy]

I find this topic interesting. I grew up when the Jackson 5 and then Michael Jackson broke out. Like many others had a bit of a crush on him. I was horrified at what he did to his appearance. He says that he did it because of vitilego (sp) but the other things he was doing including the plastic surgery that destroyed his nose, speaks to almost erasing who he was (racially). I have also heard comments that he hated/was afraid of his father and so tried to do everything he could to not look like him.

As far as beauty, I think it would be boring if everyone looked like everyone else, which is what it seems happens if everyone is bleaching and tanning themselves to some kind of ideal mean. I do understand that practically all (females) have something about themselves they do not like, it seems healthier psychologically to embrace as much as possible who you are, and what you look like, and work more on the physical health side.

From these discussions I don't know if the skin coloring is more of a racial discriminiation of one's self, or as others have pointed out, a cultural discrimination, and so lightening to signifier a different (aspirational) social hierarchy. Yes, racial and cultural discrimination is out there. but to see someone do that, shows they have internalized, and basically accepted that discrimination.

So I don't know why exactly as a white person that it bothers me, (I also dislike seeing people with extreme plastic surgery) but it does seems like whoever does it is not comfortable living in their own skin and that's sad.

 

[Sky56]

I always kind of smirk to myself in art museums because my white plumpish body is portrayed in all those Renaissance and Baroque paintings. The adored image of Venus and beautiful noblewomen, these days to be criticized as "fat."

 

[Sky56]

Good that you brought up Michael Jackson. It always floored me when I saw images of him as a child and young man - an attractive, normal-looking Black man...then what he did to himself, it had to be self-hate to do something so extreme.

 

[arkieb1]

It is not just skin lightening with Asian women, there is a growing disturbing trend with a lot of young Asian women these days to have cosmetic surgery (eyes in particular) and other facial features to look less Asian, because they perceive themselves to be more desirable being less Asian looking.... I am EuroAsian, so I have a part Chinese mother and an English father. I got my fathers very English, pale but freckled skin type that burns easily. I've lost count of the amount of times in China or in Vietnam or in Malaysia where people have said to me I am lucky because I am so white - which is always strange to hear because I don't think of myself in terms of skin tone.

 

[pregcurious]

It is not just skin lightening with Asian women, there is a growing disturbing trend with a lot of young Asian women these days to have cosmetic surgery (eyes in particular) and other facial features to look less Asian, because they perceive themselves to be more desirable being less Asian looking.... I am EuroAsian, so I have a part Chinese mother and an English father. I got my fathers very English, pale but freckled skin type that burns easily. I've lost count of the amount of times in China or in Vietnam or in Malaysia where people have said to me I am lucky because I am so white - which is always strange to hear because I don't think of myself in terms of skin tone.

I have a different opinion on Asians, or anyone wanting to have bigger, rounder eyes. In Europe and in the US, bigger eyes are considered more beautiful and youthful. I believe it is because babies and children have big eyes compared to their face size. I don't think white people prefer bigger eyes because they want to look like someone else. White people use eye liner, mascara, and eye shadow to make their eyes look bigger and more defined. I personally think that Indians have the biggest eyes (they are also Caucasian), but I can't imagine saying that a white person wants to look like an Indian person. It sounds wrong.

In the same light, Koreans like being Korean. Koreans do not want to be mistaken for another ethnicity.

About 50% of Koreans naturally have rounder eyes than the other half, which is a result of an epicanthal fold, and that is what is preferred by Korean society right now. There is a emphasis on youth, just like there is elsewhere in the world.

There's also a phenomenon right now in Korean with people preferring big eyes, a small face, and a small jaw line. I think the smaller, V-shaped jaw line is preferred because it is perceived as looking more feminine, and makes one's eyes/nose/lips bigger, like a child. Just do a google search for "Korean v jaw line". This is not to look less Asian, but to capture a specific look. Here is an extreme, and obviously tragic case of plastic surgery gone wrong. She is certainly not trying to look white, but trying to look different:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547481/South-Korean-presenter-ruins-looks-drastic-jaw-surgery-achieve-heart-shaped-face.html

 

[arkieb1]

Most of the Chinese and Vietnamese and Malaysian women I have met will admit to you they do it to look more Western and less Asian. I don't know about Korean women, and I have never been to Korea.

I have had a lot of these women tell me how lucky I am that I am beautiful because I am so white/Western looking. I think they are already beautiful, more so than me so I guess I struggle to understand all the reasons they want to look more Westernised....

I accept lots of people want an eyelift to see better and to get rid of the fold you are talking about, I also agree some women want to look both younger and more childlike - what I am talking about is young women who watch Western TV and aspire to look more like US film stars.

Even this articled you linked me to states that these women aspire to look more like Western celebrities....