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Is my sapphire real? 18k, platinum, diamonds, yes, but... sapphire...?!

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millyvanilly

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Hello!


Love this forum, been lurking for years as a massive diamond fan.


Recently acquired this ring. Love diamonds, know diamonds, satisfied the diamonds are real. Set in 18k and platinum as per hallmark, hallmarks date to around 1930s.


But the sapphire..?


This is one of my first colored gemstone purchases and it was a private sale. The sapphire just looks a bit.. unrealistically blue? to me. It is 6mm by 5mm in size and I can''t see any inclusions. I also wonder whether it is a replacement stone as the platinum claws don''t look as... happy... as the ones holding the diamonds.


I''d love some opinions! I won''t hold anyone to what they say, just would love to know what you all think. Also if I should take another angle please let me know.

Thank you!

millyring1.jpg
 

Pandora II

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It could be real - or it could be a synthetic.

You will need to take it to be tested I''m afraid.
 

millyvanilly

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Thank you. I thought as much, though a proper, reliable laboratory appraisal where I live is extremely expensive, so I thought I''d just seek some opinions first - whether it was more likely to be one or the other just from the pics, or if there is something I can do to get an idea myself, not really having experience with non-diamonds. Just some ideas and thoughts would be great.
 

T L

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Date: 2/16/2009 10:21:18 AM
Author: Pandora II
It could be real - or it could be a synthetic.

You will need to take it to be tested I''m afraid.
Ditto
 

platinumrock

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Date: 2/16/2009 10:59:26 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 2/16/2009 10:21:18 AM
Author: Pandora II
It could be real - or it could be a synthetic.

You will need to take it to be tested I''m afraid.
Ditto
Thritto. It''s a nice color though. I''m hoping it''s real.
 

LD

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Fritto! Is that a word?


There are other stones it could be and Kyanite is a possibility.
 

T L

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Date: 2/16/2009 2:42:34 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Fritto! Is that a word?


There are other stones it could be and Kyanite is a possibility.
LD,
For a second I thought you said it could be "kryptonite." I''ve been watching too much "superman" with the kids lately. LOL. If that was a kyanite, it would be a really nice one.
 

tlh

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It is lovely! But I don''t think you can tell from a picture, if it is real or synthetic... at least I can''t!
 

platinumrock

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Date: 2/16/2009 2:42:34 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Fritto! Is that a word?


There are other stones it could be and Kyanite is a possibility.
LOL....Fritto??? And Kryptonite??? LD, your post cracked up. Now you got me thinking of Superman eating Frito Lays.
 

chrono

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Nice colour, but the only way to know for sure is to get it tested. I doubt it''s a kyanite though; those are way too soft for anything although the colour would be unbeatable!
 

marcy

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It''s very pretty and a lovely color but I can''t say if it''s real or fake.
 

mochi

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Date: 2/16/2009 5:07:17 PM
Author: platinumrock

Date: 2/16/2009 2:42:34 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Fritto! Is that a word?


There are other stones it could be and Kyanite is a possibility.
LOL....Fritto??? And Kryptonite??? LD, your post cracked up. Now you got me thinking of Superman eating Frito Lays.
Did you know that boxer dogs paw have a smell that''s just like Frito''s? It''s true, I''m sniffing my boxer''s paws right now!


Milly vanilly: I love the color of that sapphire. It''s very pretty.
 

platinumrock

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Date: 2/16/2009 10:35:58 PM
Author: mochi



Date: 2/16/2009 5:07:17 PM
Author: platinumrock




Date: 2/16/2009 2:42:34 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Fritto! Is that a word?


There are other stones it could be and Kyanite is a possibility.
LOL....Fritto??? And Kryptonite??? LD, your post cracked up. Now you got me thinking of Superman eating Frito Lays.
Did you know that boxer dogs paw have a smell that''s just like Frito''s? It''s true, I''m sniffing my boxer''s paws right now!


Milly vanilly: I love the color of that sapphire. It''s very pretty.
Hahahaa!!! No, I didn''t know that! How did YOU know that? Your dog is probably looking at you funny. So Mochi, does it smell like Fritos?
Speaking of Fritos, I just bought a big bag yesterday. I ate some today with a giant tub of sour cream. It''s really good! Also, pretzels are really good with French Onion Dip.

Mmmm....French Onion dip....
 

millyvanilly

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Thank you for all your lovely comments about the color!

And interesting diversions! I got thinking about quitto, and whether when it got to ten it goes back to ditto again...


Well anyway here''s an amusing update - I went to scrap a gold chain today to pay for my ring habit


The ''resident gemologist'' had a look and said she thought it was glass.

Then I went to a jeweler down the road and he kindly had a look at it through a loupe.

''Sapphire'' he said. Then paused. ''Is it blue?''
''Pardon?'' I said
''I''m colorblind. Is it blue?''
''Oh! Er... yes, it is blue. But ...unrealistically blue, I think.''
After another long pause, and much squinting through the loupe:
''Definitely sapphire''. Another pause. ''Sapphire or synthetic sapphire. Definitely one of the two''.

I grinned and said thank you and skipped out.

Right! Methinks I need to find a lab...

Am i right in thinking that even a gemologist won''t be able to tell just by looking, that it needs to be sent off and tested with spectrometry and all that jazz? And that some sort of stone-ometer-type thing you can buy off the net won''t give a reliable result either?

Diamonds seem so simple by comparison!!!
 

Pandora II

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Date: 2/17/2009 8:15:34 AM
Author: millyvanilly
Thank you for all your lovely comments about the color!

And interesting diversions! I got thinking about quitto, and whether when it got to ten it goes back to ditto again...


Well anyway here's an amusing update - I went to scrap a gold chain today to pay for my ring habit


The 'resident gemologist' had a look and said she thought it was glass.

Then I went to a jeweler down the road and he kindly had a look at it through a loupe.

'Sapphire' he said. Then paused. 'Is it blue?'
'Pardon?' I said
'I'm colorblind. Is it blue?'
'Oh! Er... yes, it is blue. But ...unrealistically blue, I think.'
After another long pause, and much squinting through the loupe:
'Definitely sapphire'. Another pause. 'Sapphire or synthetic sapphire. Definitely one of the two'.

I grinned and said thank you and skipped out.

Right! Methinks I need to find a lab...

Am i right in thinking that even a gemologist won't be able to tell just by looking, that it needs to be sent off and tested with spectrometry and all that jazz? And that some sort of stone-ometer-type thing you can buy off the net won't give a reliable result either?

Diamonds seem so simple by comparison!!!
You need to find a gemmologist who can check the RI (if the prongs allow this), put it into a proper gem microscope and have a look with a spectroscope.

Just looking with a loupe is not really enough - you would be relying on seeing specific inclusions to use that.

Synthetic sapphire is identical to natural sapphire in terms of physical, chemical and optical structures so an electronic stone tester will indicate corundum whether it came out of the ground or not.

I doubt it would be kyanite - too soft and all the examples I have seen have had inclusions and milly says that this stone has none.
 

innerkitten

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Maybe a looking at it with a microscope would tell you more. I say save your old gold, the price may keep going up.
 

Kelli

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It''s pretty, so I hope it''s real:) Let us know if you have it tested!
 

cofor

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As everone else says it''s not possible to test if it''s the real deal or not by looking at an image.
But if a gemmological test would show it to be, real stones with that kind of hazyness I have seen before have all come from Kashmir or Kanchanaburi, Thailand. I really like that "sleepy" intensity in a sapphire.
 

millyvanilly

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Hello again everyone!
Thanks all for your great input.

Well, I have the solution!

How I got there - well, I went to the GIA website and found we have an true expert in my own country (United Kingdom), Adrian Smith FGA AJA.

I went to his website http://www.adrian-smith.co.uk/index.htm

and thought, this is the person who needs to see my ring. I emailed and explained the situation, and received the most courteous reply, and for a very reasonable fee Mr Smith agreed to look at and informally identify my ''sapphire''. I posted it to him on Friday and I was honored to receive a phonecall from him today.

It was wonderful - he explained at length that what I had was in fact a garnet-topped doublet. There is a reference to one here, it''s the third story ''Less Can Really Be More'':
http://www.adrian-smith.co.uk/interest-item.htm - the difference is mine is somehow a vivid blue!

He explained to me how I can specifically look at the stone myself with a loupe to see the cement where the doublet and glass are joined, and how to examine it, in water under a lamp, to see more characteristics, that you can see in the magnifications in the link above. I mentioned I was doing a jewellery-making course, and he was just great, recommending all sorts of reasonably priced gem courses and links to free clubs near where I live (London), and he has signed me up to his newsletter too.

I''m so glad I have this ring now, as it''s taught me so much about so much!

I know where I will get my valuations done in the future, and I also know which forum I can post my gem stories and get support and advice!

Thanks again guys for all your input. So much appreciated.
x
 

Pandora II

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Interesting! Did he show you how if you turn the table side down you can often see a tell-tale pink line running round the stone? I''ve been trying to buy one for a while but it''s hard to find one that is disclosed as such (they are a standard on the FGA exams).

Glad to see another Londoner (perhaps the ONLY other Londoner) on the board! I''m studying for the FGA at Gem-A in Greville Street - they used to have a testing lab, but they haven''t got funding at the moment so it''s shut. Holt''s in Hatton Garden will do lab work still I think.

I''d be interested to know about the other courses - I''ve got a year of maternity leave coming up in May and intend to spend a good part of it sans enfant...

I''m based in SE London - but pretty centrally, which bit are you from?
 

AllieGator

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Date: 2/16/2009 10:35:58 PM
Author: mochi
Date: 2/16/2009 5:07:17 PM

Author: platinumrock



Did you know that boxer dogs paw have a smell that''s just like Frito''s? It''s true, I''m sniffing my boxer''s paws right now!



Milly vanilly: I love the color of that sapphire. It''s very pretty.
Haha, my dog (a lhasa apso/terrier mix) smells just like fritos when she needs a bath!

I don''t know if it''s real or not, but that is one gorgeous ring!
 

innerkitten

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Glad you were able to solve the mytery :)
I''m taking a jewelry making course too BTW. Starting with the simple stuff like bezel setting.

OT: Pandora, A year of maternity leave! I wish they had that here.
 

T L

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Millyvanilly,
I'm glad you took it to a reputable gemologist and figured out what it was. Regardless, it's a very pretty color, so enjoy! Thank you for sharing your results.

PandoraII
OT - I always enjoy your posts and I learn so much from you. I don't know if you had your baby yet, but if you did congrats!!
 

Deia

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It's a very pretty ring regardless!

Date: 2/24/2009 9:25:04 AM
Author: Pandora II
Glad to see another Londoner (perhaps the ONLY other Londoner) on the board! I'm studying for the FGA at Gem-A in Greville Street - they used to have a testing lab, but they haven't got funding at the moment so it's shut. Holt's in Hatton Garden will do lab work still I think.


I'd be interested to know about the other courses - I've got a year of maternity leave coming up in May and intend to spend a good part of it sans enfant...


I'm based in SE London - but pretty centrally, which bit are you from?

Sorry for threadjacking! - How are you liking your course at Gem-A Pandora? I was thinking of starting a course at the GIA ( probably distance learning because of my work) but I wouldn't mind knowing what other options I have.

I remember when I bought my tourmaline at Holts that they told me they also offer courses at their Academy, but I remember thinking they were a bit expensive...

That's makes us 3 Londoners now woot (although I've only been in London for a bit over a year now so don't know if that counts
)! Gems don't seem that popular with people here
from what I noticed anyway...

anyway again sorry to threadjack, just curious about the course!
 

Pandora II

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Date: 2/24/2009 2:19:02 PM
Author: Deia
It's a very pretty ring regardless!



Date: 2/24/2009 9:25:04 AM
Author: Pandora II
Glad to see another Londoner (perhaps the ONLY other Londoner) on the board! I'm studying for the FGA at Gem-A in Greville Street - they used to have a testing lab, but they haven't got funding at the moment so it's shut. Holt's in Hatton Garden will do lab work still I think.


I'd be interested to know about the other courses - I've got a year of maternity leave coming up in May and intend to spend a good part of it sans enfant...


I'm based in SE London - but pretty centrally, which bit are you from?

Sorry for threadjacking! - How are you liking your course at Gem-A Pandora? I was thinking of starting a course at the GIA ( probably distance learning because of my work) but I wouldn't mind knowing what other options I have.

I remember when I bought my tourmaline at Holts that they told me they also offer courses at their Academy, but I remember thinking they were a bit expensive...

That's makes us 3 Londoners now woot (although I've only been in London for a bit over a year now so don't know if that counts
)! Gems don't seem that popular with people here
from what I noticed anyway...

anyway again sorry to threadjack, just curious about the course!
I really like the course - I'm doing the distance-learning one as well. It's worth checking out the syllabus for both as they are very different in content.

Sadly I'm embroiled in a massive legal battle with my employer at the moment and have had to dedicate all my free time to that for the last 4 months plus it has made me extremely unwell and so it's had to go on the backburner at the moment.

It's a great course IF you are into the academic/theory side of gemmology - the assignments are pretty timeconsuming as well. I reckon to spend an entire weekend writing each one (they have to be hand-written) and probably a whole week of evenings doing the reading that is necessary. You are expected to read round the subject - a lot of the answers are not in the 100kg of course notes that they send you!

For me, it was exactly what I was after, but it wouldn't be what floats everyone's boat.

Coati can give better advice on the GIA as she has done that course - I've only read what is on the GIA and Gem-A's websites.

I looked at all the others, but the FGA and the GG are the top two as far as the industry is concerned and if I was going to invest the time and money I wanted something that would be a recognised and well-regarded qualification.

Pricewise, I'd say that you need to reckon on spending around the £2k + mark for each part - you will also need to buy extra books plus I really don't like the tools they send so you'll probably want to replace them and buy a few extras. Then I prefer to have my own study stones that borrow/buy the ones they can provide...

(The FGA doesn't really cover diamonds in any depth - for that you need to do the DGA after you have finished both parts of the FGA).

Hope that helps!

RE: Gems not being popular over here... it's very odd... I don't know anyone else who is seriously interested in them and who buys them (except people I know via Gem-A), but whenever people find out that it's my major interest (ie Dinners I go to for my husband's job) they are totally fascinated and I get asked loads of questions about different gemstones.

Personally I think the vast majority really don't trust jewellers and think they are all out to scam them, but the interest is there enough that when they meet someone 'safe' who is not trying to flog them anything they let the guards down a bit (having spent many hours in Hatton Garden I admit I don't trust a lot of them either - give me the Ratnapura mine owners anyday over half of that lot!)
 

Pandora II

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Date: 2/24/2009 1:32:14 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Millyvanilly,
I''m glad you took it to a reputable gemologist and figured out what it was. Regardless, it''s a very pretty color, so enjoy! Thank you for sharing your results.

PandoraII
OT - I always enjoy your posts and I learn so much from you. I don''t know if you had your baby yet, but if you did congrats!!
That''s very sweet of you TL.


Baby is due on May 19th - although she is very much making her presence known already!
 
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