Is my diamond an Old European Cut? (Insurance question)

[rubybeth]

Is my diamond an Old European Cut? And will this matter for insurance reasons?

I ask because I had an appraisal done locally, and was not happy with the results (description very brief and valuation way too high). Normally, I've had really good experiences with appraisals at this place, so when I got back this very brief "18k gold solitaire with 1.43 M VS1 round brilliant" description on a piece of letterhead with a value 2.5 times what I paid, I e-mailed to complain and show a comparison to other appraisals done by the same place. They made the appraisal more detailed and are willing to value it lower, but are saying this isn't an OEC. They wrote, "it is actually a modern round brilliant diamond with 58 facets and a large culet." I am no expert on OECs, but to me, this looks very flowery and the faceting is very different from a typical round brilliant, but I am not sure. Ultimately, will this matter very much when it comes to insurance? My main concern is that, if something happens to this stone, Jeweler's Mutual will replace with a very good cut round brilliant. Anyone have experience with JM and OECs? Can you work with whichever old cut vendor you like?

Link to GIA report on the stone, photo below: http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2161045016

 

[chrono]

GIA's standards to label a diamond OEC is very stringent. To me, it should pass as an OEC, or at the very least, a transitional stone. If your appraisal calls it a modern round brilliant, expect the insurance company to find you a true MRB should you need a replacement stone, which is the last thing you want!

 

[missy]

Hi Ruby, I would want the appraisal or whatever document I need for the insurance company to state that it is an OEC for fear that if you ever need to replace it you will be up the proverbial creek. Do you have the original document from the vendor you purchased the stone from and will that be sufficient should you ever need to replace it?

If your local appraisal company won't work with you can your vendor recommend an appraiser that will? We have some very good PS approved appraisers as you know.

 

[arkieb1]

Try someone like Dave Atlas or an appraiser that is used to working with Antique stones and yes it's an OEC.

 

[rubybeth]

Whew, you have no idea how much better all of you have made me feel! I can feel my heart pounding in my chest whenever I start thinking about this, it's made me so upset, and of course nobody in my real life truly understands (DH kinda does, so that helps).

Chrono, you are right, I would not want a round brilliant replacement! missy, I purchased the stone pre-loved but the original vendor is Love Affair Diamonds where it was described as an OEC, of course. All I have is the GIA report. I could submit the photos from LAD, that clearly show the faceting is flowery and not the splintery traditional RB look. I suppose I could e-mail JM to ask how this would work if the stone isn't described well. arkieb, I just may have to do this. It's a bummer, because my 5-stone ring has OECs, and they were appraised correctly--the description actually says "Old European Cut diamonds with high crowns and small tables," so I expected a similar description for this stone.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Looks closer to a transitional to me with the 54 table, etc. I would maybe see if you can get Erica to write an insurance valuation for you since she sold you the stone.

 

[rubybeth]

Looks closer to a transitional to me with the 54 table, etc. I would maybe see if you can get Erica to write an insurance valuation for you since she sold you the stone.

I did not think of that! I didn't buy directly from Erica, but rather bought the stone/ring via the Pre-Loved forum here, but could contact Erica to see if she would be willing to provide more information or a value of the stone. I'm eventually going to have the stone reset so don't much care about the current setting.

 

[Tourmaline]

This stone has modern round brilliant angles, but OEC pavilion facets. It's totally a "transitional" diamond, and if your appraiser doesn't know that, he or she is not educated in diamond cut. Period.

 

[WinkHPD]

Make sure that the appraisal also has a GOOD close up photograph of the stone so that the faceting pattern is displayed properly.

Wink

 

[rubybeth]

Tourmaline and Wink, thank you so much for your comments. I waited until I was calmer to write back to the appraiser and explain my concerns. I used your description, Tourmaline, about the faceting, so that was very helpful. Also, I asked if a closeup photo of the stone could be included, as per your comment, Wink--I think that would help me to feel a lot better, even if the language of the description doesn't say "old European cut," at least the photo would show it's not a typical round brilliant look. I included the link to this page/video, as well, which seems to demonstrate that the cut of my stone is not a traditional round brilliant: http://www.gia.edu/gia-news-research-round-brilliant-cut-diamond-pay

The stone is my personal "holy grail" of a 7mm diameter, low color antique-looking diamond, and I truly hope nothing ever happens to it (I've decided to bezel it, which I also hope will help keep it safe from damage), but I want to have proper insurance coverage in case something goes wrong.

 

[rubybeth]

Just an update: they are now checking with GIA on this. Fingers crossed that GIA agrees with me and not with them. Unfortunately, the GIA certificate says "Round Brilliant" when clearly it meets their own definition (according to this article I sent to the appraiser) of a transitional/circular brilliant: http://www.gia.edu/gia-news-research-round-brilliant-cut-diamond-pay

The definition of a transitional/circular brilliant is:

Lower half length: less than or equal to 60 percent
Star length: less than or equal to 50 percent
Culet size: medium or larger

For reference, my diamond has a lower half of 60%, star length of 45%, and a slightly large culet. Also, the table of 54% just barely misses GIA's table size qualification of 53% or less for an OEC designation.

Never thought I'd be pulling my hair out over an appraisal, but maybe this can be a cautionary tale for other PSers!

 

[rubybeth]

Okay, final update on this, if anyone cares. This may just be helpful info. for people trying to insure old cuts.

After the appraiser would not change the appraisal to say it's an Old European Cut (though they did offer to include the angles/percentages on the detailed appraisal), I contacted Erica at Love Affair Diamonds, where the stone was originally purchased (I bought it Pre-loved after that). Erica was extremely helpful and kind, especially since I didn't buy the stone directly form her--and she offered to send the diamond to AGS for me. The price she quoted for this seemed very reasonable, especially after I asked the appraiser if they could do the same--and they quoted me DOUBLE! Since the stone was already set in a ring, I sent Erica the complete ring, and she had the stone removed from the setting and sent it off to AGS. She gave me an update when it came back as... you guessed it, an Old European! Except now it's an AGS L VS2 when it was a GIA M VS1. I now have that rare object, a stone with double certificates. It's interesting to note the slight differences.

AGS report: https://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pdqr.php?StoneID=104081287004&Weight=1.434&D=1

GIA report: http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2161045016

Erica also reset the stone into the setting and got it so totally perfect, I am blown away. I noticed after it was resized that there was some rose gold on the white gold prongs, and the prong tips being so chubby really bugged me, and also, the faceting didn't seem aligned with the setting, but Erica's bench fixed all of that. The prong tips are pointy, the color of both metals is amazing, and best of all, it's now 'straight' in the setting. I won't be wearing this ring until my DH graduates next year, and I'm thinking of a CvB reset into a double bezel, but now that the setting is perfect, I don't feel such a need to reset quickly. MAJOR kudos to Erica at Love Affair Diamonds!!

P.S. After I sent the new AGS certificate to the appraiser, they were (surprise, surprise) willing to update the appraisal and change the value from a totally absurd number to a much more reasonable number. I am MUCH happier with this.

 

[Tourmaline]

Wonderful!

 

[Unobuck19]

So happy for you that your journey has brought a GREAT conclusion!!

I've considered getting my grandmas stone appraised/ evaluated thru GIA or AGS. I am working with Erica now on a design for my grandmas stone Transitional 1.3 "N" VS1 ( that was a local appraisal for insurance by a GIA graduate) But I have a nagging feeling that I want a real evaluation on the stone....

best of luck and I think a bezel is a great idea! I might do the same! But I love their vintage designs so not sure lol.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The stone looks beautiful, and I am glad Erica helped you get the new AGS report! I do not understand GIA's problem with correctly labeling stones! I am also glad the appraiser lowered the value for you. I never want my diamonds insured for more than I paid if new, or more than internet retail prices if second hand.