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Is it okay to publicly shame people into voting?

Is it okay to publicly shame people into voting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • No

    Votes: 27 84.4%
  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,179
This is not a political thread to bash one side.
It's about the voting process itself.

I think most agree that in a democracy voting is good, and not voting is bad.
However we do have the right and freedom to not vote.
Some feel that not voting for either 'jerk' is the statement they want to make.
That civil right (to do something largely seen as bad) is being threatened.

A decade ago political scientists tested a new Get Out the Vote technique.
They sent out a mailing (with full names and addresses) telling recipients that their neighbors will be told whether or not they voted in an upcoming election.
It worked.
Voting increased.

Last weekend a major candidate did it, but with additional twists.
They gave it the look of a report card ... "They had people's names and they gave them an F rating for how they voted. I think a lot of voters are disturbed by it." ... "The mailing also states that a 'follow up notice' will be sent following the caucuses on Monday. ... "
Also, it was designed to appear to be a VOTER FRAUD notice, presumably so people would not throw it away as junk mail.

Source:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/30/cruz-mailer-inspired-by-political-scientists-is-condemned-by-iowa-secretary-of-state/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pp-cruz-mailer-100pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

So, is it okay to publicly shame people into voting?
Please vote! :mrgreen:
 

december-fire

Ideal_Rock
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No! :shock:

Its not OK to shame someone into voting!
Its not OK to inform neighbours or publicize that someone didn't vote!

Educate people on the importance of voting.
Look into reasons why people don't vote.
Address the cause.
Don't just attack the symptom.
 

monarch64

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I don't think it's ok, but it's freaking brilliant.

Well, let me edit that "brilliant" part. It's not brilliant as in "intelligent," it's really just a basic understanding of human nature. We humans tend to be weak, we hate feeling bad and will do pretty much anything to avoid feeling bad or having "bad things" happen to us. Especially if our peers know about the bad things! So all this strategy is doing is playing into our weakness. Kind of like when someone tells you if you don't do xyz you're going to h-e-double hockey sticks. :rolleyes:
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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I have mixed emotions on the topic. On one hand, I feel like voting is something that the govt tracks (obviously need your name, id, etc) and why not have that info available? But it seems a bit invasive to me. For example, in a census, you are able to view your community/city info, but you wouldn't be able to look at your neighbors house and find that specific of info.

Tbh, it doesn't bother me if someone doesn't vote. That is their decision. It's like giving blood. Don't want to? Fine, don't. But it does bother me when they complain about the govt/policies/etc.

All in all, voting is good. Shaming is bad. If people don't want to vote, that's their problem.
I think there was only 1 election I haven't voted in (between municipal, provincial & legislative) and that was because I was very ill.
 

OreoRosies86

Ideal_Rock
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No, of course it's not ok. Maybe you have strong objections to the politics of the candidates. Hell maybe you got in a car crash that day, or your dog died. The point is no one knows why the person didn't vote and no apology or explanation is required regardless.
 

ksinger

Ideal_Rock
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Well, unless the fake "report card" is a howler arriving via owl and all my neighbors hear when I open it, this isn't public anything. It's my mail, not the town cryer. Whether I feel shame from my mail is my business, and I shouldn't get all upset that someone uses that as a tactic. Shame is used every day for charity plugs, and animal rescue, etc. "Don't you feel the least bit ASHAMED when you see that sad sad face, that you aren't immediately reaching into your pocket and sending us money?" Or, (upset bordering on horrified)"I used to feed my dog Generic Purina Dog Swill until I realized it wasn't free-range organic and paleo. Now he eats Hand-trimmed Buffalo Filet Bits!" (shame AND snobbery, a potent mix!)

As for the "voter violation" angle, well, that would just piss me off. Cruz just told everyone he sent one of those to, that he thinks they're stupid enough to fall for such tripe. Sadly, I bet some of them did too.

Seriously, I suspect I'm in the minority when I say I think people should feel a bit ashamed when they don't vote. And no, that does not mean that if I find out someone didn't vote, I'm going to post it on the social media or decorate their house or even say a word to them about it. They have to live with what they haven't done, pointing it out is not my job. But being protected from having to hear that there are people in the world who think it is shameful enough to use that shame via a piece of junk mail? Well, I don't think anyone is owed that either. I just know the times I've not voted (in local elections, not the big ones, I always vote the big ones, which is a bit ironic, because local/city elections usually impact me more on a day to day basis) I've always felt a bit of shame. How hard fought was the right to vote, especially for women? And here I'm going to throw it away because I'm pissy about my choices? Yeah, that's worth a spasm of well-earned shame when I check out from the level of participation without which I can absolutely guarantee, our form of government will neither hold nor have the least chance of responding to new realities in any way that I consider important.

Shame can only be really ginned up when there is some there to tap into, and I haven't seen much shame in people anymore, just people whining that some mean person even TRIED to shame them. If people are so totally OK with not voting, then by heck, beat them all to the punch and sport a counter-sticker on election day that says, "I didn't vote. AGAIN! Suckahs!"
 

amc80

Ideal_Rock
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People should want to vote. If they don't vote, it's their loss. I'd rather have people not vote than make an uneducated vote because they felt shamed into voting for someone.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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21,672
Most the people I know who dont vote do not know anything about who's running and what they stand for. Do I want them to be
shamed into voting? No, I don't want them voting at all.

Would I like for everyone to know the candidates and have a reasonable explanation of why they chose someone? Yes, but I don't
think you're going to get that from shaming someone.

edit - well now that I read some of the post I think I could have just dittoed amc above!
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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12,194
No, it's a right not an absolute. I get annoyed when people don't exercise that right but complain to the high heavens on what is going on with the government. Many people have fought and died for us to have that right. Pay attention and know something about what is going on in your country and with your representatives, etc.

On the other hand, trying to shame people into voting just isn't the answer. An uninformed voter going to the polls because they've been shamed into doing so can be very dangerous. If he or she is just randomly voting with no forethought to the process we lose far more than if they had just stayed home.
 

Amber St. Clare

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december-fire|1454436023|3985698 said:
No! :shock:

Its not OK to shame someone into voting!
Its not OK to inform neighbours or publicize that someone didn't vote!

Educate people on the importance of voting.
Look into reasons why people don't vote.
Address the cause.
Don't just attack the symptom.
You said it perfectly, December-fire. It's no-one's god-damn business if I vote or not. Is it the voter's fault that too may times casting a vote amounts to choosing between the least objectionable? I know I will in all probability be sitting out this election because I can't find a least objectionable in the lot.
 

momhappy

Ideal_Rock
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Mar 3, 2013
Messages
4,660
^Actually, casting a vote is a LOT more complicated than that.... because of the Electoral College system it is possible for a candidate to get the least number of total votes but still be elected President, so as much as I'd like to think that my vote matters, it really doesn't.
As far as publicly shaming people, the whole system is pretty flawed, so I can't say that I'm surprised - although I agree that it's really nobody's business.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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momhappy|1454459322|3985912 said:
^Actually, casting a vote is a LOT more complicated than that.... because of the Electoral College system it is possible for a candidate to get the least number of total votes but still be elected President, so as much as I'd like to think that my vote matters, it really doesn't.
As far as publicly shaming people, the whole system is pretty flawed, so I can't say that I'm surprised.
I could not agree more with momhappy. In NY my vote doesn't matter. Do I still vote? Sure. But I don't fool myself into thinking my actual vote matters. However I do think voting is important. I usually do it by absentee ballot so it is more convenient and that way there is no reason not to vote.

I don't think public shaming is right however and agree with December Fire's and Amber St Clare's comments.

Amber St. Clare said:
december-fire|1454436023|3985698 said:
No! :shock:

Its not OK to shame someone into voting!
Its not OK to inform neighbours or publicize that someone didn't vote!

Educate people on the importance of voting.
Look into reasons why people don't vote.
Address the cause.
Don't just attack the symptom.
You said it perfectly, December-fire. It's no-one's god-damn business if I vote or not. Is it the voter's fault that too may times casting a vote amounts to choosing between the least objectionable? I know I will in all probability be sitting out this election because I can't find a least objectionable in the lot.
 

Tacori E-ring

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Joined
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Messages
20,038
It is not okay to shame people into anything.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Public-shaming people into voting is not OK, IMHO.

On the subject of whether a person votes or not, I just want to add an aside: As a woman, personally I feel that it's very important for me to vote. I always use my vote because I'm aware of what women went through years ago during the suffrage movement. It was less than 100 years ago that women had the vote. I am deeply grateful to those women. Casting a vote is my small way of thanking them and ensuring that their efforts are appreciated. Even if a vote doesn't "matter" in a practical sense as some posters have mentioned above, I think of those women who fought so hard for us, the women of the future, and my vote is a salute to them.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Tacori E-ring|1454463058|3985949 said:
It is not okay to shame people into anything.
Well I might be OK with shaming them into picking up their litter that they throw on the ground or picking up their animal poop they leave on the sidewalk. I'm OK with that kind of shaming. After asking nicely first to please pick up after themselves. But not shaming about voting and other things that are none of my business.
 

december-fire

Ideal_Rock
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Jambalaya|1454463380|3985955 said:
Public-shaming people into voting is not OK, IMHO.

On the subject of whether a person votes or not, I just want to add an aside: As a woman, personally I feel that it's very important for me to vote. I always use my vote because I'm aware of what women went through years ago during the suffrage movement. It was less than 100 years ago that women had the vote. I am deeply grateful to those women. Casting a vote is my small way of thanking them and ensuring that their efforts are appreciated. Even if a vote doesn't "matter" in a practical sense as some posters have mentioned above, I think of those women who fought so hard for us, the women of the future, and my vote is a salute to them.
Jambalaya,

Absolutely! I always vote. I appreciate the fact that I live in a democracy. I also appreciate the fact that, as a woman, I have the right to vote.

In Canada, women got the federal vote in three stages: the Military Voters Act of 1917 allowed nurses and women in the armed services to vote; the Wartime Election Act extended the vote to women who had husbands, sons or fathers serving overseas; and all women over 21 were allowed to vote as of January 1, 1919. Provincially, women were given the vote in 1916 in the four western provinces, in 1917 in Ontario, in 1918 in Nova Scotia, in 1919 in New Brunswick, in 1922 in Prince Edward Island, and in 1940 in Quebec. 1940! :wall:

I think some people deliberately spoil their ballots to send the message that they're 'voting' but not happy with the candidate options.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
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Spoil their ballots? Goodness, it wouldn't occur to me to do that. Does spoiling mean that you can't tell what the vote says, or does it mean just picking a candidate at random? If the former, then really it's the same as not voting.

I'm aware also of what women went through in other parts of the world. Being force-fed, being jailed, being run over by a horse, and more. I never forget my debt to the suffragette movement. When you think about it, it's really amazing how recently women did not have the vote. And the last bastion fell in Canada in 1940? :-o

ETA: A few weeks ago while Googling antique websites for Edwardian pendants, I became aware that there is such a thing as suffragette jewelry. The colors are green and purple, so the items are peridot and amethyst. A suffragette pendant is on my wishlist - to wear on voting days!
 

jordyonbass

Brilliant_Rock
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While I do not believe it is OK to publicly shame people into voting, I believe that is even worse to try shame someone into voting for a particular party that they usually wouldn't vote for. That's a failure of democracy and unfortunately it's something I see a lot of here in Australia.

I'm not talking about supporters of a party handing out information about policies and promises etc; I am talking about those people who would call an acquaintance, friend or family member some kind of derogatory name or make them feel terrible for wanting to vote for a particular politician or political party and subsequently advise who the person should vote for i.e. their own preferred political party.

If you publicly shame me into voting for a certain political party then it's not democracy, but if I am shamed into the voting process when I don't want to then I can always draw huge cartoons of boobs and penises on the voting ballot (it's a metaphor :lol: ) and enter a dummy vote for the same result as though I were not voting.

P.s. this may seem silly to ask but voting in the U.S. is anonymous - yes?
 

december-fire

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Jambalaya,

My mistake; the correct term is 'spoiled vote'.
A spoiled ballot is something different.

But, yes, some people will spoil their vote by marking nothing at all, marking all choices, or some other act that does not clearly indicate the selection of one candidate.

Per Wikipedia: "The total number of spoilt votes in a United States election has been called the residual vote. In Australia, such votes are generally referred to as informal votes, and in Canada they are referred to as rejected votes."

In Canada, some provinces (Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta) legislation pertaining to provincial elections allow a ballot to be refused on the grounds that no party satisfies the elector's vote. However, the process is that the voter takes the ballot from the official and then hand it back. I'd never heard of this option before, however, its been criticized due to the action taking place in front of other voters and officials, and therefore it is not private. Some argue that there should be a 'None of the Above' option on the ballot.

There is no similar legislation pertaining to federal elections. However, during the 2000 Canadian federal election, a number of voters (chiefly in Edmonton, Alberta) ate their ballots, as part of what they dubbed the Edible Ballot Society, to protest what they saw as inherently unfair elections. The stunt led Elections Canada to propose that there be legislation allowing federal ballots to be officially refused. :lol:

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, ends our history lesson and threadjack of the evening! :D
 

Tacori E-ring

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missy|1454463520|3985958 said:
Tacori E-ring|1454463058|3985949 said:
It is not okay to shame people into anything.
Well I might be OK with shaming them into picking up their litter that they throw on the ground or picking up their animal poop they leave on the sidewalk. I'm OK with that kind of shaming. After asking nicely first to please pick up after themselves. But not shaming about voting and other things that are none of my business.
I am against all shame. Enforcing rules/laws (ie tickets) is very different than shaming.
 

december-fire

Ideal_Rock
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jordyonbass|1454465730|3985973 said:
...this may seem silly to ask but voting in the U.S. is anonymous - yes?
Not an American, but yes, voting in the US is anonymous.

Regarding friends/relatives, if you don't want to debate politics with the person, you could nod and smile. An anonymous vote means no one knows for whom you actually voted.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
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december-fire|1454466216|3985981 said:
Jambalaya,

My mistake; the correct term is 'spoiled vote'.
A spoiled ballot is something different.

But, yes, some people will spoil their vote by marking nothing at all, marking all choices, or some other act that does not clearly indicate the selection of one candidate.

Per Wikipedia: "The total number of spoilt votes in a United States election has been called the residual vote. In Australia, such votes are generally referred to as informal votes, and in Canada they are referred to as rejected votes."

In Canada, some provinces (Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta) legislation pertaining to provincial elections allow a ballot to be refused on the grounds that no party satisfies the elector's vote. However, the process is that the voter takes the ballot from the official and then hand it back. I'd never heard of this option before, however, its been criticized due to the action taking place in front of other voters and officials, and therefore it is not private. Some argue that there should be a 'None of the Above' option on the ballot.

There is no similar legislation pertaining to federal elections. However, during the 2000 Canadian federal election, a number of voters (chiefly in Edmonton, Alberta) ate their ballots, as part of what they dubbed the Edible Ballot Society, to protest what they saw as inherently unfair elections. The stunt led Elections Canada to propose that there be legislation allowing federal ballots to be officially refused. :lol:

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, ends our history lesson and threadjack of the evening! :D
Yeah, December-Fire! I agree with you. Stop your threadjacking. :D
 

december-fire

Ideal_Rock
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But, Kenny, Jambalaya started it. :evil:
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
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The post above teasing you is from me, not Kenny!

I think your eyes are tired and it must be past your bedtime! :lol: :lol:
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I'm innocent, I tell you.
Innocent.

screen_shot_2016-02-02_at_0.png
 

Jambalaya

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For once! :lol:
 

kenny

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Jambalaya|1454470907|3986009 said:
For once! :lol:
Actually twice!

I did not have sex with that woman.
 

missy

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Tacori E-ring|1454466232|3985982 said:
missy|1454463520|3985958 said:
Tacori E-ring|1454463058|3985949 said:
It is not okay to shame people into anything.
Well I might be OK with shaming them into picking up their litter that they throw on the ground or picking up their animal poop they leave on the sidewalk. I'm OK with that kind of shaming. After asking nicely first to please pick up after themselves. But not shaming about voting and other things that are none of my business.
I am against all shame. Enforcing rules/laws (ie tickets) is very different than shaming.
If I see someone throwing litter on the ground purposefully I will ask them politely to please pick it up. If there are other people around they may be (or more likely not be if they are the type to litter) embarrassed. I don't embarrass them on purpose but I also don't just let people litter or not pick up after their dog if I see it happening. So no matter if there are lots of people around or no one if I see something like that I am going to say something to that person. I don't do it with the intention of shaming but if it helps stop their illegal and impolite and inconsiderate behavior in the future so be it. I am always polite about it because I believe manners are underrated in the USA and even if someone else is behaving rudely I always behave politely.
 

momhappy

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I agree with missy. I think that there are some instances where shaming (even unintentionally) can be a motivational tool and I don't have a problem with it (again, in some cases). Shame is not necessarily a bad thing - shame can be a healthy and useful emotion. It is the emotion that teaches us to curb less desirable behaviors (like missy's example of littering, etc.). Shame can cause people to feel different levels of sadness, fear, anger, etc., which can reduce the likelihood that you'll repeat the behaviors that led to those feelings in the first place.
 
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