Is GIA Ruby cert saying transparent a joke?

[Stone Hunter]

I don't buy rubies so I'm not concerned with GIA certs on them. I don't consult GIA about my meager colored stone purchases. Yet I don't want to buy lead filled, infused or synthetic stones. So I have my very experienced jeweler check out my CS before the sales is final.

If I was planning on spending "real money" on a CS, ala a member of the Morgan family, I would do it the same way. Cause my gold needs some beautiful colors to go with it.

 

[chrono]

You obviously didn't look at the actual ruby reports I linked for you or at the descriptions of the different AGL reports that's on the AGL web page Chrono first provided you.

As Molly pointed out, look at the far right of the FULL prestige report for the clarity grading. If you want standardization on all labs, that will be the equivalent of a company having a monopoly, which you have expressed strong disdain for. There is, however, a lab consortium made up for 5 major labs, that jointly agree on treatment, classification and more, in an effort to have some sort of uniformity.

 

[drruby]

Several people 'taught' me the ropes and when I looked at a stone in front of at that time the 2nd highest degreed person at GIA she was awed at how fast I found a very slight flaw in the stone she gave me.

So the first issue I have with GIA certs is that what I said all along about them was proven in 2005, it's an OPINION of a grader and graders can and will be BOUGHT.

So in early 80's I meet a guy with a wife from Europe a lovely older couple since I was very young then, she had a doctorate from a elite European University and had also gotten a gemology degree from GIA and had been a ballerina he was one of the guys that had won the coveted Sommelier award in France years earlier.

So me and the guy are doing a business deal and he finds out I buy big gemstones, he says you need to meet my wife she's one of the top people at GIA.

So in her home lab she gives me some stones to 'test' me and without even looping them I'm saying dead on weights and my grades, she's amazed, wow, you can grade stones by the eye better than anyone I've ever seen. I say yeah my wife has over 100 carats in gems and my collection is very large, I like rocks.

Then she shows me a nice stone, eye perfect, I say this is too clean to be real, it feels real. I say you have SG fluid, she says yeah, it floats. I say hmmm, it's probably a very clean stone let me loop it, it's flawless. I say IF I didn't see it float I would say fake.

She says it's the death of diamonds, it's a real diamond but lab grown and soon they will have the ability to put in flaws.

Next day I unload every IF stone I had and told my wife she needed to move into CG I was not buying one more diamond.

Guys that taught me the ropes some in NYC Jeweler district, a few guys on Sansom street in Philly.

Looking at lots of stones over 40 years now.

Having a lighted loop for 30 years and lab microscope with great lighting.

Having SG fluid and just a general knowledge of chemistry and mineralogy and actual buying/investing experience for around 40 years means I can look at stones quickly and find flaws and know what is 'unusual' or a flag usually.

No one is flawless in gemology, but my opinion is worth to me way more than any cert by any lab.

 

[drruby]

You obviously didn't look at the actual ruby reports I linked for you or at the descriptions of the different AGL reports that's on the AGL web page Chrono first provided you.

As Molly pointed out, look at the far right of the FULL prestige report for the clarity grading. If you want standardization on all labs, that will be the equivalent of a company having a monopoly, which you have expressed strong disdain for. There is, however, a lab consortium made up for 5 major labs, that jointly agree on treatment, classification and more, in an effort to have some sort of uniformity.

I've seen lots of AGL reports and none I've seen have had grading and yes the link M provided has a attempt at a clarity grade using made up lingo no one in CG uses IMO.

Now I've searched AGL site and sure enough the reason I've never seen an AGL report with clarity on a prestige report is simple, it's the 3rd level of AGL prestige report and for 500 or more most dealers won't buy it.

So Prestige has 3 levels of reports and only the more expensive one costing 500 bucks has clarity grade.

The rest do not grade clarity.

Now that I've seen their attempt to put a grade on clarity I say great for them, they are trying to actually create a 'standard' but the letters they are using are not something most who actually deal in rubies use.

I've never once heard any ruby dealer say oh the clarity is MI

SI all the time.

But AGL will attempt to put a clarity grade if you dish out 500 bucks for a 3rd level prestige report for rubies between 3Ct and 10Ct which is where most of my rubies are.

http://aglgemlab.com/pricelist/

PS

I just almost stroked out laughing so hard when I read who now owns AGL.

I wouldn't send them even GLASS to get graded.

The new owner is from the clown/con group COLLECTORS UNIVERSE.

WORTHLESS

Anyone familiar with CU?

haha

So you guys are actually trusting a lab owned by one of the CU guys?

WOW

I met another major CG collector once, we hung out a few times, the guy had the only patented method for authenticating of all things old sports cards.

He showed me some amazing cards. He had a stack of cards in CU cases they own PSA and he showed me som PCGS ancient coins. In his truly EXPERT OPINION every example he showed me FAKE and yet authenticated as real by CU.

Now a guy from CU has moved into CG, WOW.

That info needs to be put out, AGL is now owned by a guy from CU and CU is known for saying FAKE cards are real and FAKE ancient coins are real.

LOL

WOW

I knew GIA has major credibility issues but now AGO is owned by a guy that made his dough with CU.

WOW

 

[jordyonbass]

So several unnamed people taught you 'the ropes', you've called AGLs clarity grading an attempt, the 2nd highest person degreed at GIA is impressed by you and you trust yourself over any GG. Am I getting this right?

If so then I guess we better take your word for it, when and where do we send our stones to you? Your self proclaimed resume is better than any I have seen when I was an employer.

 

[Cognition]

You obviously didn't look at the actual ruby reports I linked for you or at the descriptions of the different AGL reports that's on the AGL web page Chrono first provided you.

As Molly pointed out, look at the far right of the FULL prestige report for the clarity grading. If you want standardization on all labs, that will be the equivalent of a company having a monopoly, which you have expressed strong disdain for. There is, however, a lab consortium made up for 5 major labs, that jointly agree on treatment, classification and more, in an effort to have some sort of uniformity.

I've seen lots of AGL reports and none I've seen have had grading and yes the link M provided has a attempt at a clarity grade using made up lingo no one in CG uses IMO.

Now I've searched AGL site and sure enough the reason I've never seen an AGL report with clarity on a prestige report is simple, it's the 3rd level of AGL prestige report and for 500 or more most dealers won't buy it.

So Prestige has 3 levels of reports and only the more expensive one costing 500 bucks has clarity grade.

The rest do not grade clarity.

Now that I've seen their attempt to put a grade on clarity I say great for them, they are trying to actually create a 'standard' but the letters they are using are not something most who actually deal in rubies use.

I've never once heard any ruby dealer say oh the clarity is MI

SI all the time.

But AGL will attempt to put a clarity grade if you dish out 500 bucks for a 3rd level prestige report for rubies between 3Ct and 10Ct which is where most of my rubies are.

http://aglgemlab.com/pricelist/

PS

I just almost stroked out laughing so hard when I read who now owns AGL.

I wouldn't send them even GLASS to get graded.

The new owner is from the clown/con group COLLECTORS UNIVERSE.

WORTHLESS

Anyone familiar with CU?

haha

So you guys are actually trusting a lab owned by one of the CU guys?

WOW

I met another major CG collector once, we hung out a few times, the guy had the only patented method for authenticating of all things old sports cards.

He showed me some amazing cards. He had a stack of cards in CU cases they own PSA and he showed me som PCGS ancient coins. In his truly EXPERT OPINION every example he showed me FAKE and yet authenticated as real by CU.

Now a guy from CU has moved into CG, WOW.

That info needs to be put out, AGL is now owned by a guy from CU and CU is known for saying FAKE cards are real and FAKE ancient coins are real.

LOL

WOW

I knew GIA has major credibility issues but now AGO is owned by a guy that made his dough with CU.

WOW

and how is the price different from the lab report fee for gubelin? on average, I spend 400-1000USD for gubelin report

and... what's wrong with Mr. Smith?

 

[drruby]

AGL was owned by CU collectors universe and they are known to say FAKE stuff is REAL.

Smith was a VP in CU

Enough said, I wouldn't send glass to AGL now that I've seen their attempt at clarity grades and found out their CU connection.

Enough said move on.

AGL is not a legitimate lab to me for three reasons.

A. it was owned by CU collectors universe
B. it is now run by a former VP in CU
C. the lingo they use in their clarity report is made up by AGL and it has no real world meaning in CG IMO

AGL is not a gem lab IMO

I don't need to harp on it, AGL was owned by collectors universe enough said.

They (CU) had similar issues as GIA has had with pay for grade graders.

That's why high end gems never have AGL on them, the CG I've seen with AGL certs not one had a clarity grade and now that I know CU is or was the owner, I will laugh very hard any time a dealer produces an AGL cert for me to look at.

I might actually go back to some dealers that had AGL certs just to break their hearts their certs are worthless.

IMO

In sports cards CU owns PSA and a PSA 10 is usually sold way cheaper than a BGS 9.5 grade.

Granted sports cards are not my forte, but the guys I know that are into them, PSA is a joke and so is PCGS since they often miss FAKES.

So CU can't even tell what sports cards or ancient coins are FAKE and you all think what they say about a Ruby grade means anything?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Best laugh I had in very long time.

WOW

 

[lovedogs]

Mods--can we please take care of the excessive trolling going on here?? DrRuby has started tons of threads just with the purpose of insulting people and spewing rhetoric and attitude that are misleading at best, purposely incorrect at worst. This is taking away time from legitimate questions and posts where people want advice and help, and taking away from the enjoyment factor overall.

 

[drruby]

I'm not trolling I asked a legitimate question about top labs doing clarity grades in one thread and about what I observed is wrong on lots of GIA certs for rubies.

I haven't been abusive to one member here even though some have been abusive to me.

My newest thread is about if anyone here has a high degree in gemology related fields with an advanced gemology degree.

Anyone that knows CG can see I am very knowledgeable about CG

Granted my opinions on GIA due to their 'scandal' getting caught by the FBI in a pay for upgrade grading scandal may upset some here but it's not trolling since I don't consider GIA to a legitimate CG lab.

Sure some offered AGL as a solution to my question in another thread, but for now obvious reasons I would never use AGL for anything.

Thus far not one person has offered an opinion on the transparency issue I find with lots of GIA ruby certs.

Thus far not one person has offered a legitimate lab that does clarity grading, although some tried to say AGL did it, and they do have a 3rd level report with their own clarity grading system, but now that I did minor research on who has owned AGL I would not consider them a legitimate gem lab.

So while I have not abused one member here I have been abused for merely stating my opinion on ruby certs issued by GIA which may be okay in carbon reports unless you have one of the GIA certs a dealer paid or bribed GIA to upgrade to a higher grade than the stone deserves.

The questions I raised about CG reports are very pertinent to CG and belong in this forum.

If you don't like my views, do they have an ignore feature? You should use it if this forum does.

 

[chrono]

You have insulted more than one member's ring, which is very rude.

 

[lovedogs]

I'm not trolling I asked a legitimate question about top labs doing clarity grades in one thread and about what I observed is wrong on lots of GIA certs for rubies.

I haven't been abusive to one member here even though some have been abusive to me.

My newest thread is about if anyone here has a high degree in gemology related fields with an advanced gemology degree.

Anyone that knows CG can see I am very knowledgeable about CG

Granted my opinions on GIA due to their 'scandal' getting caught by the FBI in a pay for upgrade grading scandal may upset some here but it's not trolling since I don't consider GIA to a legitimate CG lab.

Sure some offered AGL as a solution to my question in another thread, but for now obvious reasons I would never use AGL for anything.

Thus far not one person has offered an opinion on the transparency issue I find with lots of GIA ruby certs.

Thus far not one person has offered a legitimate lab that does clarity grading, although some tried to say AGL did it, and they do have a 3rd level report with their own clarity grading system, but now that I did minor research on who has owned AGL I would not consider them a legitimate gem lab.

So while I have not abused one member here I have been abused for merely stating my opinion on ruby certs issued by GIA which may be okay in carbon reports unless you have one of the GIA certs a dealer paid or bribed GIA to upgrade to a higher grade than the stone deserves.

The questions I raised about CG reports are very pertinent to CG and belong in this forum.

If you don't like my views, do they have an ignore feature? You should use it if this forum does.

Believe me, I looked for an ignore button yesterday as soon as I realized you are only here to troll. Sadly I can't find one.

 

[drruby]

I'm not trolling and if you don't like my views then just ignore any threads I started since that is where most of my posts are located if they upset your view of the CG world.

I consider you calling me a name like a troll is abuse, IMO.

I'm merely asking others interested in CG about important topics.

Are there any major labs issuing clarity reports.

Is GIA overgrading transparency on rubies.

Threads that the mods can see are not troll based.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Wasn't AGL started by Bear Williams? He sold to Chris Smith. Bear Williams has an exceptional reputation.

I have a lovely ruby that is translucent. I asked the person who appraised it why the value was so high. He explained that it showed the ember inside, was flurescent,(Sp) and had good color. I have never sent it to a lab. Its in a ring and looks beautiful to my eye.

I was in a high end jewelry store in Las Vegas and spoted an opaque ruby just sitting there. I questioned how an opaque stone could be valued so high. He said color. It was a great red to me. I have one similar so I keep it hoping the color is enough to be considered not junk.

It requires a specialized machine to check for diffusion, so I wouldn't be so complacent thinking that you can tell this in your lab, with the equipment you have,

I find you behind the times. I find your so-called facts, only an interpretation of what you have read. Look at how quickly you said that AGL was owned by some crooks. I don't believe you are as you have presented yourself.


Annette

 

[Marlow]

Don't feed the troll!

 

[drruby]

Hi,

Wasn't AGL started by Bear Williams? He sold to Chris Smith. Bear Williams has an exceptional reputation.

I have a lovely ruby that is translucent. I asked the person who appraised it why the value was so high. He explained that it showed the ember inside, was flurescent,(Sp) and had good color. I have never sent it to a lab. Its in a ring and looks beautiful to my eye.

I was in a high end jewelry store in Las Vegas and spoted an opaque ruby just sitting there. I questioned how an opaque stone could be valued so high. He said color. It was a great red to me. I have one similar so I keep it hoping the color is enough to be considered not junk.

It requires a specialized machine to check for diffusion, so I wouldn't be so complacent thinking that you can tell this in your lab, with the equipment you have,

I find you behind the times. I find your so-called facts, only an interpretation of what you have read. Look at how quickly you said that AGL was owned by some crooks. I don't believe you are as you have presented yourself.


Annette

I never said AGL was 'crooks' I pointed out CU owned them and then Smith a VP at CU took AGL private.

As to CU, they're a public company with many negative reviews due to authenticating what are now known fakes in both coins and sports cards.

I don't collect ancient coins nor sports cards, I have heard opinion on CU though from guys that are into both ancient coins and sports cards.

So CU has credibility issues and they had very recent ownership in AGL and Smith was a VP for CU.

That's enough for me to say publicly I don't consider AGL a legitimate Gem Lab, my opinion.

The fact is some modern equipment is used to help newer gemologists that don't have decades of experience in CG find things more experienced gemologists can find without most equipment. Some equipment does it easier but a high powered proper lighted gem microscope is still the most valuable tool in the hands and eyes of a very experienced gemologist.

As to modern equipment and CG, do you know how many labs used RI equipment to say LGFF rubies were real. LOL

Yet, the experienced eyes of a real gemologist looking at the stones with a good old fashioned microscope easily says it's severely ENHANCED.

So tech is only as good as the person using it.

 

[katharath]

Please everyone, just don't reply to that poster.

Yesterday everything died down because no one was replying, we were able to have some "normal" board time by the evening - I'm really hoping that will happen again soon.

This is one of those situations where replying will probably never, ever be productive.

 

[Garnetgirl]

Is Liao back??

or maybe DoctorD ??

 

[junebug17]

Believe me, I looked for an ignore button yesterday as soon as I realized you are only here to troll. Sadly I can't find one.

Click on where it says "welcome" in the upper left hand corner and then click the friends and foes button.

 

[drruby]

So now Molly there you have it, add me to FOES and then my lovely prose will be lost upon your eyes forever more...

I bet she can't do it, she'll have to linger upon every word that comes from my keyboard.

DR RUBY

haha

 

[Ella]

Ladies and gentlemen, please ignore posts you don't like, don't use abusive language, and if you suspect someone of being a troll, report it, no need for name calling in a thread.

 

[eastjavaman]

Is Liao back??

or maybe DoctorD ??

Informative, but more aggressive than Liao's

 

[Cognition]

where are u drruby? I need a daily dose of your knowledge

 

[drruby]

see today's posts

lot's of rare knowledge about tech used at university levels and what is being used in 'gem labs' which don't have all the tech most think they have

many labs borrow tech from major universities

you can to, but they charge fees to use high end atomic level analysis machines

gemologists are low level people in academic circles compared to major geologists with phd's in geology and mineralogy

gemologists are actually a joke in academia

sales people basically the gem trades need to over hype gems

 

[digdeep]

You are wandering onto threads or starting threads to pontificate....... You did not come here to ask a question, you came here to carry a grudge and display self righteousness. Not good qualities in life or online------which for some, may be the same thing.
The majority of people on this forum are more educated than you realized........ Amongst those are the people that cited actual documentation to back up their comments (Chrono, MM, and others) rather than going on and on with their opinions assuming that facts are interchangeable with opinions----um, that would be you.

This reminds me of a Big Bang episode in which Sheldon said something that was scientifically factual and his south Texas Mom (no offense to S. Texas) responds to him: "And that's your opinion...." said with the determination of anyone who denies factual information.

 

[drruby]

actually I admitted I LEARNED a major thing today

the three main devices labs are now using to detect treatments are destroying magnificent gems to drill huge holes visible with 10x into some flawless and or pretty close to flawless gems

if you know where to LOOK in the girdle area you can see the huge HOLES now being drilled into gems

so that has actually changed my mind on the whole world of 'gems'

if you have to make huge holes in girdle areas to prove a gem has not been treated, that HOLE if on a facet would be a serious FLAW

so labs are destroying IMO really magnificent gems and hiding the destruction in the girdles

I KNOW A LOT and now that I KNOW THIS

I'm looking at my older gems and I see perfection and they were obtained before all these new treatments started to be used

every recent gem I bought I WISH I DIDN'T buy now

I honestly think once other 'collectors' become aware of what labs are doing to drill HUGE HOLES in great gems will also make them look at every tested gem now as FLAWED

 

[minousbijoux]

digdeep et al:

It is not a good idea to respond to this poster. If we all go about our business and overlook this poster, perhaps they will move on to Gemology Online where the professionals hang out, or realize that maybe they should tone down the rhetoric and incoherent writing style to get more response.

 

[katharath]

Thank you Minous.

I know that it's difficult because no one here wants to see misinformation spouted left and right, uncorrected, but replying just means that it literally doesn't end.

It's very satisfying seeing that no one has replied to several of the multiple threads started. Makes me proud of everyone for acting like adults. If everyone just refuses to reply, then you are left with someone who is simply talking to themselves; and eventually they will get bored with receiving no attention and leave. It's that simple.

 

[Marlow]

digdeep et al:

It is not a good idea to respond to this poster. If we all go about our business and overlook this poster, perhaps they will move on to Gemology Online where the professionals hang out, or realize that maybe they should tone down the rhetoric and incoherent writing style to get more response.

Is it a violation against the forum policy that you post the name of the other forum??

In my opinion it is unfair what you are doing.

 

[katharath]

digdeep et al:

It is not a good idea to respond to this poster. If we all go about our business and overlook this poster, perhaps they will move on to Gemology Online where the professionals hang out, or realize that maybe they should tone down the rhetoric and incoherent writing style to get more response.

Is it a violation against the forum policy that you post the name of the other forum??

In my opinion it is unfair what you are doing.

What is she doing?

 

[lovedogs]

Thank you Minous.

I know that it's difficult because no one here wants to see misinformation spouted left and right, uncorrected, but replying just means that it literally doesn't end.

It's very satisfying seeing that no one has replied to several of the multiple threads started. Makes me proud of everyone for acting like adults. If everyone just refuses to reply, then you are left with someone who is simply talking to themselves; and eventually they will get bored with receiving no attention and leave. It's that simple.

+1!!!! I had a difficult time inhibiting my desire to respond, because I HATE that there's tons of misinformation. But now that we've all stopped things have calmed down