Is Cut Quality Over Hyped?

[RockNSake]

Hello, I have been following these forums for a while now and have recently decided to purchase a diamond for engagement purposes. I have been going around and checking out a lot of different cut size and colors (all round cut) and feel like its been very interesting to see the differences from stone to stone. Then the other day I met with someone who put an interesting new perspective on my search.

It was a woman (first woman that I have looked at a Diamond with) and after checking out a few things I showed her a diamond I really liked and had the paperwork on from a different jeweler. The first thing she said was, its a very nice diamond, but why do you like it? I told her the cut quality was excellent (table/depth/angles/ with HCA score < 1) and the color was just nearly colorless enough to be able to compete nicely with colorless d-f diamonds of average cut in the same size class. The rock in question was a round 1.5x ct and was h/g in color SI1 clarity. She took out a 1.7x ct SI1 J color stone that just had a good cut, and asked me what I thought. To be honest the stone looked perfectly fine, was eye clean, and was beautiful. She even layed a similar E color stone beside it that was of better cut, and I still thought the J color stone was quite nice (both very eye clean) and was at the very least, not worthy of dismissal. Then she asked me, which one do you think your girlfriend would pick? I laughed and instantly choose the larger 1.7x J color SI1 stone, and she agreed. She then explained to me that alot of these fine cut stones with great HCA rating are all part of the marketing hype and are basically just ways to justify wiggling more money out of your pocket for little in return, and that alot of the qualities I was using to determine my purchase were not going to be visable or appreciated by my girlfriend, but WILL cost me. I thought it was an interesting point. The bigger stone was a few hundred dollars less. She even told me that I would be better off spending the money on a E or F color ring with a less ideal cut becuase it will show better once its dirty, and/or in bad lighting situations due to its very white color. Now after I thought I had found the stone I was going to buy, I feel like its back to the drawing board to start again.

Will an ideal (ex,ex,ex --0.9 HCA) g/h color, eye clean 1.5x ct SI1 stone show/compare well with a good e/f eye clean 1.5xct SI1 of about the same size? Or should I say forget about the super ex cut, nearly colorless stone, and go for a less refined i/j color 1.7x sized stone instead?

I mean how many diamond experts will see this ring? Probably zero! Will she be able to say hers is bigger? Yes!
Will she be able to tell hers is lighter/more colorless? Hard to say, but possibly...

Will she be able to differentiate the finer cut qualities? I know I seem to be able to.

Am I wasting money on something she won''t be able to appreciate?

Thoughts? Any input would be appreciated. I feel like I have hit a brick wall.

Its going to go on a solitaire so there will be nothing else to distract the eye, it is the main event.

Thanks

 

[stone-cold11]

Give us the numbers of the 2 stones or we won''t know what you look at. There can be good cut that perform well too. What viewing condition are you look at the stone in?

 

[oldminer]

There is no question that those folks who keep an open mind about what they are willing to consider buying will often find they do not require an "ideal" cut eventhough it can be proved to have more of certain light return elements. Diamond buying for nearly everyone is a complex equation of making smart compromises. You definitely want to a the diamond your fiance'' will love and it may be the larger one sometimes rather than the "ideal" cut even when all the numbers back it up as "better". What is better for you may not be better for someone else.

The coming of age of the "ideal" cut has aided the Intneret shopper in eliminating questionably cut or poorly cut stones from the most desired level of consideration. When buying somewhat blind, you want to make a good choice and the ideal cut provides a very safe way to not make a mistake on getting a beautifully performing stone. The premium charged is justified by the free market. If there were no difference there would be no premium. No one controls the prices except for open competition. It isn''t a rip-off to pay more for "better" quality, but it is your choice to look and make a judgment about what you prefer. many diamonds in the near top range of cut don''t make an ideal grade yet are perfectly acceptable and very pretty. It isn''t all hype about ideal cuts, but the system in place does lead people who don''t wish to know all the facts to make good choices quite rapidly. When time is essential, a rapid method is a good thing.

 

[yssie]

A humble newbie opinion:

I think that yes, it''s true, the layperson (ie. anyone looking at the ring, unless they happen to perhaps be a veteran ps''r) wouldn''t be able to distinguish between perfect optical and physical symmetry as presented in true H&A and the vast majority of AGS0s. True H&A stones are for mind-clean, and personally I''m very happy without it, as FI would''ve paid for something neither of us could appeciate.

That said, you pay, relatively speaking, pennies more for better cut (not branded H&A) than for, say, better colour or clarity - certainly carat, so I wouldn''t call this wiggling for cash - there are easier ways for them to do that! You can have a GIA ex/ex/ex that is steep/deep and thus a poor performer, you can have a GIA vg that got marked down for excessive depth or an AGS1 without ideal polish that has excellent light return... you can even have a GIA good with a vthick girdle that performs like a pro. The amount of light returned face-up, and whether it is returned as white or coloured, depends solely on CUT: the angles, the facets and the way they interact, any brillianteering (and in rare cases clouds/inclusions) - there is no colour dependence. The only thing colour can affect is the hue of light returned.

A shallower (but still ideally cut) stone will perform better when it''s dirty (see Garry H''s multiple posts), and I can personally second this - though my opinion is much less compelling

. Colour - again - doesn''t matter.

I second Stonecold''s suggestion: go back, ask to look at all those stones in different lighting (those jewelry lights don''t count!) outside, inside, "office" lighting... the best cut one will consistently perform better across these various lighting conditions, and I do think you will SEE the difference. In the case above, the "best cut" would be either the GIA vg with the slighly excessive total depth or maybe even the GIA good with the overly thick girdle, both of which have "cherry numbers", not the leaky EX/EX/EX.

 

[hihowareyou]

Everyone has different preferences when buying a diamond, to some a high colour is important, to others it is size or cut precision, some people will even seek out diamonds with flawless clarity as their priority. I would try to put myself in your girlfriend's shoes. Which qualities will be most important to her?

As the poster above me said, it can be as much about having a 'mind clean' stone as it is about being able to visually see the difference.

 

[kenny]

Well cut diamonds look better than poorly cut ones but unfortunately most diamonds sold are poorly cut.

Sounds to me like good cut is not hyped enough.

 

[Todd Gray]

When we first decided to represent ideal cut diamonds, we began by introducing them to our clients to determine whether they could see a distinction between the zero ideal cut diamonds and the "diamonds of fine make" that we were known for... Almost every client was able to see a difference and elected to purchase the ideal cut option, very few decided to purchase the "fine make" option after being shown the difference in visual performance... Thus we stopped carrying diamonds of fine make and became a "house of ideal".

Over the years I''ve certainly seen some very large diamonds, but the ones which peak my interest are the ones that I can see sparkling from across the room... My fiance Valerie wears ideal cut diamonds in her ears and is frequently stopped by women who comment on them, awhile back she was kind of happy when she was out with a friend who wears a larger pair of earrings because somebody stopped to comment on how pretty hers were while her friend was standing right next to her... Diamond Cut Quality is where it all begins IMO.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Well like anything in life a good balance is more important than a single extreme. You could have the most perfectly cut I3 stone in the world and I don''t think many women would sport it with utmost pride (unless they had an odd sense of taste, which some of us do). Contrastly, a traditionally superior D IF no fluor can look very inferior indeed aside a beautifully cut K VS2.

What you need to do is look at your own personal set of priorities, order them, and weigh them.

I would do it as such:

Cost - Set a bottom line, know your limit.
Cut - Get the best cut you can in balance with your other needs.
Clarity - Know your personal limit but allow yourself to consider lower clarity than you might expect.
Carat - If everything else is in line - get the biggest stone you can find.
Color - For me the least important of all... but for others it may fetch a higher rank.

But you have the opportunity to arrange those in any order you want... if you want to sacrifice cut performance for size - that''s certainly a choice and you wouldn''t be the first. This is a list that maybe you can use to help you figure out your own personal checklist.

 

[Cehrabehra]

sorry threadjack - Congrats Todd!!!

 

[DianaBanana]

Date: 9/28/2009 3:14:54 PM
Author: yssie
A humble newbie opinion:

I think that yes, it''s true, the layperson (ie. anyone looking at the ring, unless they happen to perhaps be a veteran ps''r) wouldn''t be able to distinguish between perfect optical and physical symmetry as presented in true H&A and the vast majority of AGS0s. True H&A stones are for mind-clean, and personally I''m very happy without it, as FI would''ve paid for something neither of us could appeciate.

That said, you pay, relatively speaking, pennies more for better cut (not branded H&A) than for, say, better colour or clarity - certainly carat, so I wouldn''t call this wiggling for cash - there are easier ways for them to do that! You can have a GIA ex/ex/ex that is steep/deep and thus a poor performer, you can have a GIA vg that got marked down for excessive depth or an AGS1 without ideal polish that has excellent light return... you can even have a GIA good with a vthick girdle that performs like a pro. The amount of light returned face-up, and whether it is returned as white or coloured, depends solely on CUT: the angles, the facets and the way they interact, any brillianteering (and in rare cases clouds/inclusions) - there is no colour dependence. The only thing colour can affect is the hue of light returned.

A shallower (but still ideally cut) stone will perform better when it''s dirty (see Garry H''s multiple posts), and I can personally second this - though my opinion is much less compelling

. Colour - again - doesn''t matter.

I second Stonecold''s suggestion: go back, ask to look at all those stones in different lighting (those jewelry lights don''t count!) outside, inside, ''office'' lighting... the best cut one will consistently perform better across these various lighting conditions, and I do think you will SEE the difference. In the case above, the ''best cut'' would be either the GIA vg with the slighly excessive total depth or maybe even the GIA good with the overly thick girdle, both of which have ''cherry numbers'', not the leaky EX/EX/EX.

Great post yssie, newbie or not!

I agree, cut is King. A "good cut" might look great in the jewelry store but an ideal cut stone will be your own personal disco ball.

 

[tap02150]

I kind of read through most of these threads but skimmed a few as well. I''m not sure if someone asked if you saw these diamonds in different types of lighting? Jewelry store lighting can help enhance lesser quality diamonds. But my vote is for ideal cut!

 

[dddiamonds01]

Thanks for all the replies. The reason I was focused on high clarity/near colorless diamonds at fist was because I am new to the process and wanted to filter out the junk by setting the quality high. As i read up more on diamonds I am getting more comfortable going down in quality (but not all the way down).

On ASET images, should the image look symetrical? i.e. if the ASET image colors look good but the center is slightly off diamond does that make the diamond less ideal?

Here is an example. If you look at ASET the center is off slightly to the upper left. (only a bit but imagine it was more off). does this affect the quality of the diamond?

http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-68014.htm#

 

[Regular Guy]

RocknSnake, always good to take a fresh look. But, the issues about color, for example, yssie bring up ring truer, and that lighting may make a significant difference.

Todd...also congratulations!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 9/28/2009 2:44:52 PM
Author:RockNSake
Hello, I have been following these forums for a while now and have recently decided to purchase a diamond for engagement purposes. I have been going around and checking out a lot of different cut size and colors (all round cut) and feel like its been very interesting to see the differences from stone to stone. Then the other day I met with someone who put an interesting new perspective on my search.

It was a woman (first woman that I have looked at a Diamond with) and after checking out a few things I showed her a diamond I really liked and had the paperwork on from a different jeweler. The first thing she said was, its a very nice diamond, but why do you like it? I told her the cut quality was excellent (table/depth/angles/ with HCA score < 1) and the color was just nearly colorless enough to be able to compete nicely with colorless d-f diamonds of average cut in the same size class. The rock in question was a round 1.5x ct and was h/g in color SI1 clarity. She took out a 1.7x ct SI1 J color stone that just had a good cut, and asked me what I thought. To be honest the stone looked perfectly fine, was eye clean, and was beautiful. She even layed a similar E color stone beside it that was of better cut, and I still thought the J color stone was quite nice (both very eye clean) and was at the very least, not worthy of dismissal. Then she asked me, which one do you think your girlfriend would pick? I laughed and instantly choose the larger 1.7x J color SI1 stone, and she agreed. She then explained to me that alot of these fine cut stones with great HCA rating are all part of the marketing hype and are basically just ways to justify wiggling more money out of your pocket for little in return, and that alot of the qualities I was using to determine my purchase were not going to be visable or appreciated by my girlfriend, but WILL cost me. I thought it was an interesting point. The bigger stone was a few hundred dollars less. She even told me that I would be better off spending the money on a E or F color ring with a less ideal cut becuase it will show better once its dirty, and/or in bad lighting situations due to its very white color. Now after I thought I had found the stone I was going to buy, I feel like its back to the drawing board to start again.

Will an ideal (ex,ex,ex --0.9 HCA) g/h color, eye clean 1.5x ct SI1 stone show/compare well with a good e/f eye clean 1.5xct SI1 of about the same size? Or should I say forget about the super ex cut, nearly colorless stone, and go for a less refined i/j color 1.7x sized stone instead?

I mean how many diamond experts will see this ring? Probably zero! Will she be able to say hers is bigger? Yes!
Will she be able to tell hers is lighter/more colorless? Hard to say, but possibly...

Will she be able to differentiate the finer cut qualities? I know I seem to be able to.

Am I wasting money on something she won''t be able to appreciate?

Thoughts? Any input would be appreciated. I feel like I have hit a brick wall.

Its going to go on a solitaire so there will be nothing else to distract the eye, it is the main event.

Thanks

What lighting were you looking at these stones under? Under those LED or bright store lights they ALL look good!! take them under a table or in normal daylight and you will start to see much bigger differences. Its under lower light conditions when the ideal cut starts to shine. Also whose definition of ideal cut or good cut were you accepting as fact? GIA? The stores?
We at PS use an Idealscope to determine light leakage especially for GIA certed stones, even stones
Color in diamonds is also much more noticeable in low lighting conditions as well the best thing to do is to compare them on your skin, the same size and close to the same cut in different lighting, candlelight is when I notice the color most in my Fiance''s H colored diamond. Some people are more color sensitive than others.

You have to seperate a few variables:

1) Changing the color from J to E in the same size stone could cost 50% more for the same size, look at the two side by side in normal daylight does that matter to you? Color doesn''t translate to light return, but it does change the appearance of the diamond, some gals just have to have the icy white color what about yours? Many high end stores won''t go lower than an I in color as you start to see a yellow tint in the body color.
2) Getting an ideal cut or near ideal may only cost you 5 - 15% more and if you shop carefully you can get a near ideal stone for pretty close to the same price as a good cut, shopping online you save much more than brick and morter as well and its just not worth getting the most mind clean stone you can.
3) Size does matter for most women but I''m not sure the size between a good cut 1.5ct and a ideal cut 1.40ct is going to be all that noticeable. The difference in size between a 1.7 J and a 1.5F will certainly be noticeable.
4) Eye clean is eye clean no need to go higher than eye clean SI1 if you are comfortable with it.

 

[RockNSake]

Ok thanks for all the replys/interest.

I live just outside NYC and have been working with several people who are on PS and some other local people. No lighting games are being played and I have seen the stones in daylight. All the stones are GIA cert''d. I have not held them to my skin though, as this is the first time I have seen/heard it suggested, but i will give it a try.

I just feel like to a certain extent that I have been so bent on finding the best cut stone my budget can afford, that I am now only looking to buy a stone that has qualities that may not even really be able to be detected by the naked eye, let alone by my girlfreind and her snooty freinds. I guess the question is, at what point is enough enough in terms of cut, and how much worse would a strong performing lesser cut grade stone compare? I think maybe a strong performing VG or G (GIA) cut stone would be a good option, and allow for maybe a bit better color, or more carats ( I would prefer the latter). I have also seen a few ex cut''s that perform somewhat poorly and feel that there is a problem with that. How can a stone of lesser cut quality outperform a stone with a higher graded cut?

I am fine with eye clean SI1 and would even go SI2 if it was clean enough.

The best cut stone I am looking at is an GIA Ex cut, ex polish, ex symm, SI1 (but very eye clean) in H color. It also seemed to do well under the scope, and when placed next to an identical stone w similar proportions and cut that scored a 4.1 on HCA, the one i like seems to blow it away.

The specs are:

Size: 1.5ct
Color: H (guy says its a strong H)
Clarity: SI1 (very clean)
Cut Grade: Ex
Polish: ex
Symm: ex
Floures: None
Culet: None
HCA score: .9
Table: 56
Depth: 60.9
Crown angle: 33.5
Pavillion Ang: 41.0
Facet: Thin-Med 3.0%
Table: 33.5 deg
Measures 7.38X7.47X4.52
More Proportions:
above the facet 14.5%
below the facet 43%

Also saw and liked a

1.4 ct
G
vs2
Ex cut
Ex polish
Ex symm
Depth: 61.7
Table: 57
Crown Ang: 35.5
Pav Ang: 40.8
HCA: 2.6
Branded H&A
7.16x7.20x4.43
Culet: None
Flours: None
Facet: Med 3.5%
Proportions:
Above facet: 15%
Below: 43%

One of the bigger ones (dont have the cert in front of me)

1.73 ct
J color
SI1 clarity
Good cut
good polish
good sym
Table: 56%
Depth: 64.2
7.56x7.6x4.89

(dont have the rest in front of me)


All stones are about the same $ expcept the bigger one which is a couple hundred less.


So from the overwhelming consensus on here, should I stick with my well cut H color stone? Her best freind has a 1.5 E color SI2 with an GIA good cut. Should my excellent cut H stone show better or will it look inferior because of the color difference? i am concerned it will look off white next to her E stone of avg cut...??

 

[RockNSake]

Date: 9/28/2009 3:27:56 PM
Author: kenny
Well cut diamonds look better than poorly cut ones but unfortunately most diamonds sold are poorly cut.

Sounds to me like good cut is not hyped enough.

What do you define as a poorly cut diamond? Is a GIA graded good cut diamond a poor cut in your eyes?

 

[stone-cold11]

One of the reasons why we prefer ideal is the stone you like. The stone has a lot of hidden weight. Ideally a 1.73c approx 7.75mm. The 1.73c stone you look at has the equivalent spread of a 1.65c stone. So what is the price of an ideally cut 1.65c J SI1? Is it a bargain then to still buy the 1.73c G cut stone against a 1.65c Ex cut stone? Stones are mainly priced by weight.

You may also be one of the people who like lower color stones and that is influencing your perception of which stone is more beautiful. Try getting a J ideal cut and compare with that stone again.

Also, some prefer the splintery look of a good symm stone to the orderly pattern of an Ex symm stone.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/29/2009 9:55:56 AM
Author: RockNSake

Date: 9/28/2009 3:27:56 PM

Author: kenny

Well cut diamonds look better than poorly cut ones but unfortunately most diamonds sold are poorly cut.


Sounds to me like good cut is not hyped enough.

What do you define as a poorly cut diamond? Is a GIA graded good cut diamond a poor cut in your eyes?

that is highly subjective - some would think anything less than an ideal H&A poorly cut lol

 

[Lula]

The problem, as I see it, is you're trying to make a decision based on too little information.

It is possible to find great performing stones outside of the GIA and AGS top grades, but it is a bit harder to do it just based on the numbers and the HCA score.

An HCA score of less than 2 only tells you that the stone has the potential to be a good performer; it will weed out stones that are less likely -- the key word there is "less" -- to be good performers. A score above 2 does not automatically mean that the stone should be ruled out. It simply means that more information is need to assess the stone.

For example, beyond what you've provided (basic numbers on cut, color, clarity; HCA scores; visual inspection under several types of lighting), you would also want to look at:

Lower girdle facets %
Star %
ASET image
IS image
Sarin/Helium reports if available
If being sold as H&A you will also want to see hearts and arrows images (esp. hearts).

It may be very difficult, if not impossible, to obtain this information on the stones you are looking at. That's why many people choose to short-cut the process and buy their diamonds from vendors like GOG, Whiteflash, Nice Ice, High Performance Diamonds, and Brian Gavin Diamonds, among others, who provide this information on all the stones they sell.

The way you are going about choosing your diamond will lead to a fine stone that will rival anything her girlfriends' are wearing on their fingers; however, you will need to do more research on each of these stones to truly compare their performance with each other and with other stones.

At to being able to see a difference between H and E color stones, I'm sorry to tell you that that really depends on a person's eyesight and "color sensitivity." For example, your girlfriend and you may not be able to see any difference, but her friend may be very color sensitive and be able to tell the difference (and of course there are always people who will tell you they can see a difference even if they can't

ETA: Re looking at stones in different lighting -- the toughest judge of light performance for a RB, in my opinion, is under low lighting conditions, e.g., incandescent light in your home, under a nightlight in a dark room. If an RB looks good under low light, it will also look great under lighting conditions that most diamonds look good in -- diffused sunlight, spotlighting, etc.

 

[Stone Hunter]

I think the answers to your questions really depend on your GF. What she likes and values is what you are looking for. Get a few well cut stones of good color and then pick from them. It''s nice that you think you can pick a better cut out of a line up, but if she''d rather have a visually larger stone then that''s what you should go for, rather than a perfect cut.

NOTE: I said visually larger. Some poorly cut 1.7 ct stones will "face up" or appear smaller than some well cut 1.5 ct stones.

HTH

 

[Lula]

Date: 9/29/2009 10:25:52 AM
Author: Stone Hunter
I think the answers to your questions really depend on your GF. What she likes and values is what you are looking for. Get a few well cut stones of good color and then pick from them. It''s nice that you think you can pick a better cut out of a line up, but if she''d rather have a visually larger stone then that''s what you should go for, rather than a perfect cut.


NOTE: I said visually larger. Some poorly cut 1.7 ct stones will ''face up'' or appear smaller than some well cut 1.5 ct stones.


HTH

I agree with Stone Hunter.

Considering your girlfriend''s preferences, I''d look for a high color stone (no lower than H), eye clean SI1, in the largest size that you can find, make sure that it has good spread (i.e., won''t face up smaller than its carat weight suggests). You can read about "spread" in the education sections on PS or do a search in the archives.

As for cut, try to get at least an IS image on any stone you''re considering to check for light leakage, and worry less about what GIA and AGS are calling it. If you stay away from stones with obvious cut problems (fish eye) and hidden weight (thick girdles, and depths too much over 62%, e.g.) you should find a well-performing stone in a great size.

Is this how I would buy a stone -- no. I''m a cut fiend who loves superideals, puts cut first and then size and then color and clarity. Everyone is different, though, and you are correct, I think, to consider your girlfriend''s preferences.

 

[Fly Girl]

I see ideal cut quality as the safe harbor when purchasing diamonds over the Internet. My Crafted by Infinity stone looks stunning in more lighting conditions than my well cut diamond. The other advantage to the ideal cut is my well cut diamond loses sparkle very quickly as it get dirty. I learned to clean it every day to maintain the sparkle, and this was before PS. Certainly, you might choose a well-cut diamond when you can compare them in person, but you won''t be certain about the performance in different lighting conditions, or how the performance degrades as the stone is worn.

As Sara says, this decision is difficult because you don''t quite have enough information to make it. Any chance you can go shopping with your lady? The H vs. E issue may be no issue at all, but this is a personal preference of the wearer.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I think after a certain point, it''s a law of diminishing returns. Could I tell a deep and poorly cut stone from an AGS0? Absolutely. Could I tell an AGS0 from an AGS3 just by looking at it? I doubt it since I don''t deal in diamonds for a living.

There''s "ideal" in the technical sense, and "ideal" in the personal sense. That is, what is ideal for your girlfriend? For example, there are a lot of girls on these forums who have the most gorgeous antique cut stones that certainly wouldn''t measure up to today''s "ideal" angles, but that are beautiful and cherished. So if you know your girl would rather have the bigger stone, and isn''t too concerned about "mind clean", then I wouldn''t fret too much about the difference in cut if you can''t really see a difference.

That''s just my opinion though. On a personal note, I''m actually very color sensitive, and I have a solitaire setting where I can easily see my stone from the side. And on occasion, I pick up the slight tint in my F. I''d make sure your gf wouldn''t mind the tint in a J, especially if you go with a setting where you can easily see the stone in profile (it''s harder to detect the color when the stone is face up).

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 9/29/2009 10:56:33 AM
Author: Fly Girl
I see ideal cut quality as the safe harbor when purchasing diamonds over the Internet. My Crafted by Infinity stone looks stunning in more lighting conditions than my well cut diamond. The other advantage to the ideal cut is my well cut diamond loses sparkle very quickly as it get dirty. I learned to clean it every day to maintain the sparkle, and this was before PS. Certainly, you might choose a well-cut diamond when you can compare them in person, but you won't be certain about the performance in different lighting conditions, or how the performance degrades as the stone is worn.

This is an excellent point that I often forget to mention myself, one of the major advantages to a center range ideal cut diamond is that they tend to perform exceptionally well in poor lighting conditions where less precisely cut diamonds tend to flatten out in terms of performance. I often show clients ideal cut diamonds under a table or desk to prove this point...

Regarding my engagement, it's not "new" just prolonged... Valerie and I have been engaged for a little while, but have to wait awhile to get married so that the fallout from the estate proceedings don't have a chance of affecting her... So you'll hear "my fiance" for a bit longer... Mentioned so that we don't threadjack RockNSake's thread further with a mix-up, but thanks for the well wishes anyway

 

[Lula]

Date: 9/29/2009 10:56:33 AM
Author: Fly Girl
I see ideal cut quality as the safe harbor when purchasing diamonds over the Internet. My Crafted by Infinity stone looks stunning in more lighting conditions than my well cut diamond. The other advantage to the ideal cut is my well cut diamond loses sparkle very quickly as it get dirty. I learned to clean it every day to maintain the sparkle, and this was before PS. Certainly, you might choose a well-cut diamond when you can compare them in person, but you won't be certain about the performance in different lighting conditions, or how the performance degrades as the stone is worn.


As Sara says, this decision is difficult because you don't quite have enough information to make it. Any chance you can go shopping with your lady? The H vs. E issue may be no issue at all, but this is a personal preference of the wearer.

Ditto Fly Girl. I have noticed the same thing with my Infinity stone -- it outperforms other diamonds in low lighting conditions and under fluorescent lighting. That's when it really "shines." As mentioned earlier in this thread, sunlight and spotlighting make most any diamond look great.

 

[JoeNewbie11]

Jon @ GOG had a video on this subject awhile back: "Why do 3ct G VS2 Cushions vary in value by over $15,000?" http://vimeo.com/4650334

To me this is a bit extreme. Unless a significantly higher amount of rough was required to cut the "ideal" cut diamond vs. a "poor" cut or a significantly larger amount of time and skill was required, I don''t think that much of a price premium is justified. Signature cuts should demand a slight premium, but we should be talking maybe 10-15%, not 30-40%.

 

[stone-cold11]

Demand and supply, if he priced himself out of the market then the stone will not move. It is his decision.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Amazing thread RockNSake!!
Yes, yes, and oh yes!

It''s been said that an "ideal" stone will look better if it''s dirty.
Of course it is likely true for those that have observed it, in their particular case,
However, although there is anecdotal proof based on some individuals experience, based on a far broader sample of "Ideal" versus very well cut non ideals, it''s simply not the case. We''ve seen many ideal cuts, as well as well cut non ideals after they have gotten dirty. A great cut won;t help gunk under the diamond.

The tests used to determine "light return" are by no means accepted by the trade as a whole. Those that don;t find value in them include companies like Harry Winston, and Cartier.
This does not mean HW is right, and those using ASET are wrong. Many buyers base decisions on visual factors over reflector tests.
If you read a lot here, it''s easy to believe you need aset to buy a well cut diamond. You do not.
It might be true that a diamond that scores well on ASET is well cut- but it''s not true that one that does not score as well is not necessarily as well cut.

Many will, as you have seen- choose a really well cut stone over a higher priced "Ideal"
For me, this trumps all the arguments about how buying "Ideal" takes the guesswork out of it. Folks might actually spend a lot more, and get a stone they''d have preferred less if they actually looked.


Of the three stones you posted, the 1.73 has a number that does seem excessive- the 64.2% depth, That will make the stone appear smaller in weight than it is. I don''t buy by the numbers- but such a high depth on a colorless round would put me off......

if you love "Ideal Cut" diamonds, then buy one- use ASET HCA, whatever you love to use.
But your question was is there hype surrounding this subject- and the answer is unquestionably so.
It''s important to find out what appeals to you- in many cases, it''s a fairly large difference in prices.
For this reason it makes all the sense in the world to look for yourself so you can separate the hype........

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 9/29/2009 12:18:43 PM
Author: sarap333
Ditto Fly Girl. I have noticed the same thing with my Infinity stone -- it outperforms other diamonds in low lighting conditions and under fluorescent lighting. That''s when it really ''shines.'' As mentioned earlier in this thread, sunlight and spotlighting make most any diamond look great.

using terminologies from highperformance diamonds
cut precision (aset/is)
cut symmetry (h&a)

with all factors reasonably equal,



which would outperform which in regular lighting ?

diamond with great cut precision and with poor cut symmetry ?
VS
diamond with great cut symmetry and with poor cut precision ?


is this even a valid question !?!?

i am thinking my answer would be for a diamond with great cut precision and with poor cut symmetry

because the precision still controls the amount of light being reflected back at the view...

am i right?

 

[Lula]

Good question, Haagen. I''m unsure what the answer is, so I''m giving this thread a bump in the hope that others more knowledgeable will share their thoughts/expertise.