Is Chivalry dead?

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 3/25/2009 7:37:59 PM
Author: trillionaire

So cool to hear about different cultural orientations towards chivalry. As a matter of fact, I experienced something very similar when I travelled to Atlanta, GA from Los Angeles. Everyone was so nice and helpful in GA, it was a total shock! Pleasant surprise though, with people carrying my bags and openning doors and being ever so helpful!

Hehe that''s the South for ya!

I''d like to say it''s that way all throughout the South, but sadly it''s not so true anymore. Lots of people are just plain jerks. But there are lots of good ones still left, and lots of them are bringing up the next generation to be that way too, which is so great.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

I have to say my FI is very chivalrous. Not just good manners, but he watches out for me and takes care of me, which is something that is a necessity for me. That''s how I we were both raised, and that''s how I think a man should act with his woman - take care of her and put her first. That''s what chivalry is - making sure the woman is comfortable and taken care of. It''s also helping others out, not just your woman.

FI always takes care of the doors, opens my car door for me most times, even from the inside when he''s picking me up. He carries most of the bags, walks where I''m the safest, watches out for me when there are creeps around... and is just overall a very polite and caring guy. He''s helped strangers out with their dead cars, opens doors for other men and women, and does all sorts of things for his older grandparents.

I''d like to think I''m "chivalrous" too, in a female sense. I try to be polite to everyone I''m in contact with (unless something else is necessary

), hold doors for people behind me, or people with full hands or children, and just try to be a "good neighbor/citizen" in the sense. I like to think it makes other people feel better, as it always makes me feel better when someone is nice or polite or helps me out.

 

[Haven]

Holly--I completely agree that women are to blame for the slow death of chivalry, as well.
I imagine there is some correlation between how well mannered (or just plain nice) a woman behaves, and the amount of chivalrous nods she receives from strangers. I know I would be less inclined to rush to open the door for a rude woman (for example) if I were a man.

I find that strangers are infinitely kinder and more receptive to me if I walk around with a smile on my face than they are if I walk around with a scowl (or a phone stuck to my ear.) Not that I would ever walk around with a scowl on my face or a phone stuck to my ear . . .

 

[sba771]

I think it is very rare but it always excites me when it happens. (My Fi is chivalrous, but I am thinking outside of him) I will never forget how impressed I was when I was at Penn Station in NY and I had a HUGE duffel bag and there was a gigantic set of stairs. A man who had already gone up saw me, came all the way down, picked up my bag, took it up the stairs, smiled and continued on. He would barely let me thank him. Little things like that brighten my day. Or when I see people helping women up stairs when I see them struggle with a stroller. I always run and help if my hands are free.

One example which pissed me off and made me think it was dead was when i was on NJ transit with that same big duffel. The train was not full and I squished my bag into the seat next to me. It was on the floor but no one would fit there to sit, but there was no need. The ticket collector comes by and tells me I have to put my bag up on the rack. I look at him, I look at the bag and I ask well are you going to help me? He said no, so I just said well I guess its staying there then. I physically could not get it 3 feet in the air. I mean really!

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I think that basic manners have been exiting the stage for a while now and true chivalry lead the way. I try my best to hold a door open for people, offer a seat to an elderly person or obviously pregnant woman or let the lady behind me in the store with only a few items go ahead of me.

My DH used to be much better at being chivalrous - he''d hold the door open, open the car door and help me out and pull out the chair for me and now I''m pretty much on my own. He''s nice for other people though

Speaking of basic manners, when I was hugely pregnant last summer I went out with my SIL, her DH and some of their friends while my DH was stuck at home painting the nursery. We went to a local bar/restaurant and were waiting at the bar for our table to be ready. There was an empty stool next to this gal who was busy texting on her phone so I took it. She gave me the death glare and yelled that her boyfriend was sitting there

I calmly told her that I didn''t see him anywhere and his name wasn''t on the stool. She glared at me and told me I couldn''t just take someone''s seat. I said well, there''s two of us and only one of you while giving my big, round belly a overly exagerrated rub. At that point my BIL stepped in and found another stool. The gal was crazy and beyond rude to me.

 

[atroop711]

I think it's a on it's way but not there. I have HOPE will won't die! I was raised with manners and I have passed this on to my children. My husband has manners (not the best

but considering the wolves that raised him

, he's got amazing manners

( BEHAVE ANNETTE!!

Recently I was pregnant and taking the bus is where you can see if chivalry is dead or not. I ALWAYS offer my seat to someone eldery, disabled, with a child, pregnant, ect. It amazed me how many men wouldn't offer me or any one else (like an elderly person) a seat. I had a boy and promised him that he will be taught manners just as I have taught his sisters.

I think it's all about teaching by example.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 3/25/2009 5:25:11 PM
Author: steph72276

Date: 3/25/2009 5:22:18 PM

Author: AmberGretchen

Not dead, but certainly rare...

Agreed. My hubby always opens doors for women and has taught my 4 year old son to do the same. My little one and I were going to eat at Panera Bread the other day and he opened the door and said to the lady in front of us ''ladies first''! But I must say, it is rare...like when I was 6 months pregnant on a train going to the airport terminal and no one offered a seat and I had to stand up...that is so rude. I''m not a man, and I always offer my seat to pregnant or elderly people and I always hold doors open for people right behind me. Some people just don''t have manners anymore.

This drives me NUTS!!! I always give up my seat to older people, pregnant women or injured people. I hurt my arm a few weeks ago and was in a sling. I take the subway to work and one day on my way home, the train was really crowded and I had to stand. I couldn''t hold my bag and the pole at the same time because I had a bum arm. No one would give up their seat even though it was very obvious I was having trouble. Not to mention I would have been a danger to other people on the train had I fallen while it was moving. I finally picked a young guy and LOUDLY said "excuse me sir, I have a broken arm, may I please sit down?" He looked SO embarrassed and ashamed when he got up. He knew he should have offered it. I''ve done the same thing to people when there''s someone who needs a seat and people are ignoring them. There was one little woman who was a good 7 months pregnant and no one offered her a seat. Once again I picked out a young guy who was on his ipod and trying hard not to make eye contact and asked him to give his seat to the woman.

I admit, some people are just oblivious to the world around them. I can be that way too sometimes. But there''s no excuse when people are clearly just inconsiderate jerks.

 

[princesss]

I''ve got to tell you, that''s one nice thing about being in the South, lol. Most of the guys I know will open doors and carry heavy things. It took me totally by surprise the first time I was getting a box of books from the bookstore in college and 3 guys offered to carry them to my dorm for me! BF is not so much chivalrous as he is polite. I don''t need or expect him to open doors, pull out chairs, etc. but I think it''s wonderful when he does that. I do, however, expect that he will help the elderly, offer up his seat to a woman, child, or elderly person on a bus/train, and generally be a gracious person. (Of course I do the same.) It''s all really natural with him - unless he''s distracted, in which case I''ll start to get up to offer my seat, help out, etc. and he sees me and beats me to it.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 3/26/2009 10:36:36 AM
Author: luvthemstrawberries
I have to say my FI is very chivalrous. Not just good manners, but he watches out for me and takes care of me, which is something that is a necessity for me. That''s how I we were both raised, and that''s how I think a man should act with his woman - take care of her and put her first. That''s what chivalry is - making sure the woman is comfortable and taken care of. It''s also helping others out, not just your woman.


FI always takes care of the doors, opens my car door for me most times, even from the inside when he''s picking me up. He carries most of the bags, walks where I''m the safest, watches out for me when there are creeps around... and is just overall a very polite and caring guy. He''s helped strangers out with their dead cars, opens doors for other men and women, and does all sorts of things for his older grandparents.


I''d like to think I''m ''chivalrous'' too, in a female sense. I try to be polite to everyone I''m in contact with (unless something else is necessary

), hold doors for people behind me, or people with full hands or children, and just try to be a ''good neighbor/citizen'' in the sense. I like to think it makes other people feel better, as it always makes me feel better when someone is nice or polite or helps me out.

FI is also very much like this. He won''t let me do things like rake leaves or shovel snow by myself. He either wants to do it himself or do it together as a team. His ex used to not do anything herself, so this was a big adjustment for both of us. He gets really annoyed when he catches me doing things (like shoveling snow) without him. He feels like it''s his "job" as the guy, which I think is totally silly. He doesn''t open/close the car door for me, but that''s because I''m too quick and I do it before he can.

 

[elrohwen]

It's not totally dead. I notice that most men still let me pass through a doorway first, hold the door, etc and I consider that chivalry. However, I have some co-workers who never ever do those things and that's fine too (though sometimes it seems odd because I'm so used to other men doing those things). Most important to me is whether my SO is chivalrous and for the most part he is. Sure there are little things he doesn't do (ex. he doesn't stand up from the table if I get up to go to the bathroom and he doesn't stand up when I get back) but he does the important things and that's all that matters.

I think chivalry is evolving to modern day interpretation, but I don't think it's dead.

ETA: I agree with others that Southern men are more chivalrous. I was in a meeting the other day and al the chairs were taken, but there was a ledge thing that we often use as a seat. A woman walked in and everyone just stayed in their seats as she walked to sit on the ledge thingy. One of the interns who is very Southern immediately jumped up and practically forced her to take his seat, despite her objections. Lol. The north east seems to view men and women as equals and both tend to be polite to each other; in the south, women seem to be placed higher and treated more respectfully than men. Just my observations.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 3/26/2009 11:02:27 AM
Author: princesss
I''ve got to tell you, that''s one nice thing about being in the South, lol. Most of the guys I know will open doors and carry heavy things. It took me totally by surprise the first time I was getting a box of books from the bookstore in college and 3 guys offered to carry them to my dorm for me! BF is not so much chivalrous as he is polite. I don''t need or expect him to open doors, pull out chairs, etc. but I think it''s wonderful when he does that. I do, however, expect that he will help the elderly, offer up his seat to a woman, child, or elderly person on a bus/train, and generally be a gracious person. (Of course I do the same.) It''s all really natural with him - unless he''s distracted, in which case I''ll start to get up to offer my seat, help out, etc. and he sees me and beats me to it.

I love manners and people in general in the south. I love bring called M"iz Stephanie"...lol...

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 3/25/2009 5:53:27 PM
Author: Pandora II
It''s certainly still here - I''ve been offered a seat on the bus or tube everytime I''ve taken either for the last 5 months (ie since I''ve ''looked'' pregnant), and have often been offered them in the past just for being female.

Most men I know will open doors for me, walk on the road-side of the pavement, wait till I''m inside my front door if they give me a lift home, carry my suitcases and generally treat me in a gentlemanly manner.

I definitely expect men to be chivalrous.

Pandora, I find your post really interesting. On the radio the other day they were talking about why women are attracted to men with accents. One of the women on the radio show is married to a Brit and she said that she thinks men in Britain are raised to have much better manners than those in the US. Your post certainly backs that up! Most men I know are generally polite, but I don''t believe they''d even know to walk on the road side of the pavement, etc. When I was in England for a short time, the men were extremely polite to me on the whole; more so than American men I think.

 

[Circe]

Date: 3/26/2009 5:04:19 AM
Author: klewis
I''m not sure I really understand what is meant by chivalry. I think it''s the special courtesy a man gives to a woman.

Regardless of their gender, I would almost always open the door and let the other person through first ,but I would never pull back a chair to help some one take their seat (yes, maybe that''s a cultural difference), unless they are elderly. It seems patronizing to single out women to be treated this way. I suppose chivalry is treating a woman like a Queen, so I guess if she''s willing to treat him like a King , then great.

As for ''Women and Children first'' in an emergency....I think that should be changed to either ''women with children first '' or ''parents with children first'' - the children are the deciding factor to me.

I guess you wouldn''t want to be on a sinking ship with me!


<BR.

KLewis, you are awesome. Well said.

P.S. - Personally speaking, I''d like to avoid the sinking ship, period.

 

[princesss]

Date: 3/26/2009 11:28:41 AM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Date: 3/26/2009 11:02:27 AM
Author: princesss
I''ve got to tell you, that''s one nice thing about being in the South, lol. Most of the guys I know will open doors and carry heavy things. It took me totally by surprise the first time I was getting a box of books from the bookstore in college and 3 guys offered to carry them to my dorm for me! BF is not so much chivalrous as he is polite. I don''t need or expect him to open doors, pull out chairs, etc. but I think it''s wonderful when he does that. I do, however, expect that he will help the elderly, offer up his seat to a woman, child, or elderly person on a bus/train, and generally be a gracious person. (Of course I do the same.) It''s all really natural with him - unless he''s distracted, in which case I''ll start to get up to offer my seat, help out, etc. and he sees me and beats me to it.

I love manners and people in general in the south. I love bring called M''iz Stephanie''...lol...

Yeah, I like being "Miss Sarah." But it freaked me out when a 17-year-old called me ma''am! I know he''s just being polite, but I wanted to say, "I''m not THAT old!" So I did, lol. What did he say? "Just trying to be polite, ma''am." Cracked me up.

 

[Circe]

"Is Chivalry dead? Would it matter if it was? How do you define chivalry?"

Going backwards first ... initially, chivalry had jack-all to do with good manners. It comes from "chevalier," and it literally just references someone who''s rich enough to own a horse and all its accoutrements. The association that those who had so much also had a responsibility to those who had little (and, given society in those days, women first and foremost) came a lot later. We can really thank the proto-feminist Eleanor of Aquitane for what we think of as "chivalry": the idea that men of a certain class should thank their lucky stars for the women who brought grace and beauty and Love (capitol "L" for courtly love) into their lives, and demonstrate their gratitude in word and deed.

Over the years, things shifted (the modern chevalier is probably measured in horsepower rather than horses - I vote Jaguar over Mustang, any day!) pretty damned significantly, and our recent move toward gender equality has led to some changes. I''d argue that chivalry is actually coming a bit closer to its original roots as it moves from being gender-based to being class-based ... but that''s just me.

Does that mean that chivalry is *dead*? Well ... in the sense of respect-towards-people, a sense of responsibility from those-who-have to those-who-have-not, no. In the sense of men owing respect to women ... maybe. I don''t need anyone to pull out my chair, hold my door, or stand when I enter a room, but I''d be really pleased if men would stop with the harassment ... or if other men would occasionally step in to say, "Not cool." It''s pretty damned embarrassing if *I* am the only one on the train telling the 20-something group of boy-men to stop hassling the 14 year old girl in the Catholic school-girl uniform, you know? I''d ask for self-policing before I''d ask for special treatment.

 

[Lorelei]

I tend to find most men are chivalrous, not something I have really noticed a decline in. In return I try to always to show good manners as I was raised to do and be chivalrous in return as LTS noted.

 

[atroop711]

Date: 3/26/2009 11:01:29 AM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Date: 3/25/2009 5:25:11 PM

Author: steph72276

Date: 3/25/2009 5:22:18 PM


Author: AmberGretchen


Not dead, but certainly rare...

Agreed. My hubby always opens doors for women and has taught my 4 year old son to do the same. My little one and I were going to eat at Panera Bread the other day and he opened the door and said to the lady in front of us 'ladies first'! But I must say, it is rare...like when I was 6 months pregnant on a train going to the airport terminal and no one offered a seat and I had to stand up...that is so rude. I'm not a man, and I always offer my seat to pregnant or elderly people and I always hold doors open for people right behind me. Some people just don't have manners anymore.

This drives me NUTS!!! I always give up my seat to older people, pregnant women or injured people. I hurt my arm a few weeks ago and was in a sling. I take the subway to work and one day on my way home, the train was really crowded and I had to stand. I couldn't hold my bag and the pole at the same time because I had a bum arm. No one would give up their seat even though it was very obvious I was having trouble. Not to mention I would have been a danger to other people on the train had I fallen while it was moving. I finally picked a young guy and LOUDLY said 'excuse me sir, I have a broken arm, may I please sit down?' He looked SO embarrassed and ashamed when he got up. He knew he should have offered it. I've done the same thing to people when there's someone who needs a seat and people are ignoring them. There was one little woman who was a good 7 months pregnant and no one offered her a seat. Once again I picked out a young guy who was on his ipod and trying hard not to make eye contact and asked him to give his seat to the woman.


I admit, some people are just oblivious to the world around them. I can be that way too sometimes. But there's no excuse when people are clearly just inconsiderate jerks.

what I hate is when we hold the door for someone and they just walk through without saying thank you...as if you are supposed to hold the door for them. It gets under my skin even more when one of my daughters hold the door for someone and the ADULT doesn't say anything to them...just walks right through. UGH..some ppl just don't have manners

 

[bee*]

I definitely think that it''s not looking so healthy at the moment. I love a chivalrous man.

 

[2Artists]

No I don''t think that chivalry is dead. Most men I have dealt with out and about both here and abroad have treated me with with great chivalry as far as the holding the door, helping me out, giving me a seat etc. Maybe it''s because I''m short? So if I am loaded down carrying a huge box or bag it looks much more pitiful.

I think everyone should be kind and considerate of each other male or female. I think it is about striving to be a decent human being and helping others out.

In all fairness though my Dad travels a great deal and has been chewed out by women before for helping or offering to help them with a a heavy bag or door or the like.

Why you would get mad at someone helping you (male or female is beyond me). When someone helps me I give a big thanks and big smile and if it is a little kid holding the door (or being a sweet little helper) I especially make a big fuss and tell them how awesome they are.

Mrs.2Artists

 

[gwendolyn]

No, it''s not. I still hold doors for people.

 

[kama_s]

Definitely on the lower end of the graph. Let me explain with a story. I was once in an elevator with a gentleman probably in his 70''s. As the elevator door opened, I held it open for him to go through first and he replied:

''Obviously chivalry is dead among men these days when a young lady is holding the door open for me. It''s quite unfortunate when a young lady like you doesn''t know that she gets to go first''

I ALWAYS hold doors open for people (even when they''re far behind me), give up seats in buses/trains, let them come ahead of me in line. Once, actually, I was in the subway when a very pregnant woman gets in. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON gave up their seat, tried to avoid eye contact and just didn''t give two hoots. Being the brat that I am, I very loudly said:

''Isn''t it pathetic that not one person would offer you a seat. What is wrong with people these days''

Five people got up and offered her a seat. She gave me a wink

 

[somethingshiny]

Chivalry is not dead. The proof lies in my 3 yr old son. He''s watched his Daddy hold open the door for others so much, he''s taken to standing at the Walmart entrance holding the door until everyone in sight is through. He also leads me by the hand to a seat, fluffs cushions for Grandma and always gives juice to his friend before himself. (even if it''s the last box)

I''m treated very chivalrously by most of the family. I can count on one hand how many times I''ve had to pump my own gas in a year. My Fil (who''s tiny compared to me) will not allow me to lift or carry anything in his presence. Any man I know will go out and start my car for me on a cold day, and dig it out of the snow if need be.

I feel that I''m pretty mannerly myself and I treat others with the same courtesy.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 3/26/2009 11:29:24 AM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 3/25/2009 5:53:27 PM

Author: Pandora II

It''s certainly still here - I''ve been offered a seat on the bus or tube everytime I''ve taken either for the last 5 months (ie since I''ve ''looked'' pregnant), and have often been offered them in the past just for being female.


Most men I know will open doors for me, walk on the road-side of the pavement, wait till I''m inside my front door if they give me a lift home, carry my suitcases and generally treat me in a gentlemanly manner.


I definitely expect men to be chivalrous.

Pandora, I find your post really interesting. On the radio the other day they were talking about why women are attracted to men with accents. One of the women on the radio show is married to a Brit and she said that she thinks men in Britain are raised to have much better manners than those in the US. Your post certainly backs that up! Most men I know are generally polite, but I don''t believe they''d even know to walk on the road side of the pavement, etc. When I was in England for a short time, the men were extremely polite to me on the whole; more so than American men I think.

SO does this, and it took forever for me to figure out why he was bouncing from side to side on our walks, especially with the dog. I''m not sure where he learned it, because I had never heard of it before, but he does it all the time, despite knowing that I don''t care or notice, lol.

My dad is not very chivalrous, so I guess I didn''t grow up seeing it. He will hold doors (all of us do) and carry heavy things and all, but he didn''t really treat us like girls were super special and need to be spoiled. My mom wishes that he was more doting and chivalrous, lol, but she is old school and from the south, so she likes things a certain way. Their 30th anniversary is this year, so I guess it wasn''t THAT important...

 

[oobiecoo]

I think its mostly dead.

The first university I attended is known for being friendly. Guys would ALWAYS offer their seats to the girls without fail on the bus. I thought it was so nice to see that. At my new school, I was only offered a seat maybe twice and found myself very annoyed. DH opens doors for me and will ocassionally go out of his way to do something extra special but most guys I come into contact with don''t think thats "cool".

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Date: 3/26/2009 3:10:31 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 3/26/2009 11:29:24 AM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 3/25/2009 5:53:27 PM

Author: Pandora II

It''s certainly still here - I''ve been offered a seat on the bus or tube everytime I''ve taken either for the last 5 months (ie since I''ve ''looked'' pregnant), and have often been offered them in the past just for being female.


Most men I know will open doors for me, walk on the road-side of the pavement, wait till I''m inside my front door if they give me a lift home, carry my suitcases and generally treat me in a gentlemanly manner.


I definitely expect men to be chivalrous.

Pandora, I find your post really interesting. On the radio the other day they were talking about why women are attracted to men with accents. One of the women on the radio show is married to a Brit and she said that she thinks men in Britain are raised to have much better manners than those in the US. Your post certainly backs that up! Most men I know are generally polite, but I don''t believe they''d even know to walk on the road side of the pavement, etc. When I was in England for a short time, the men were extremely polite to me on the whole; more so than American men I think.

SO does this, and it took forever for me to figure out why he was bouncing from side to side on our walks, especially with the dog. I''m not sure where he learned it, because I had never heard of it before, but he does it all the time, despite knowing that I don''t care or notice, lol.

My dad is not very chivalrous, so I guess I didn''t grow up seeing it. He will hold doors (all of us do) and carry heavy things and all, but he didn''t really treat us like girls were super special and need to be spoiled. My mom wishes that he was more doting and chivalrous, lol, but she is old school and from the south, so she likes things a certain way. Their 30th anniversary is this year, so I guess it wasn''t THAT important...

My husband does this, too. It took quite a while to get used to it.

I grew up with a father who respected women, and the treatment he always received in return was well received. He wasn''t overly fussy about it, he just always happened to relieve my Mom and my sister and I of door opening and carrying heavy items. I never really thought about it until I met my husband. It''s like a second nature to the men who were raised with this attitude. I think it''s more caring and being aware of the people around you than just protecting/caring for women.

I live in TX, and I see more polite/chivalrous acts for strangers then I have anywhere else I have lived (and I lived in London for a year

). Since the day we met, my husband has opened my car door for me, building doors, carried heavy groceries, walked with me on the inside in parking lots and on sidewalks . . . it''s unwavering and completely second nature to him.

 

[vespergirl]

No, but it''s rare. I found a good knight though who looks out for me

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I don't think it's dead...I think it has evolved.

No longer are men covering puddles with their jackets, but they are opening doors or opening jar lids that we cannot manage to matter how hard we try. It can still be found in the simple things, like carrying the heavy groceries or plugging your phone into the charger before you go to bed.

My husband often times, when I've had to park outside in snowy weather, makes a point of brushing my car off and warming it up. Or even something as simple as returning the memory seat to my setting before he shuts the door when he drives. If that isn't chivarlry, what is it?

 

[Pandora II]

For those who asked, yes I am in the UK.

I think it very much comes down to how people are taught by their parents and by their schools. At my private ''prep'' school (7-13) which was mainly boys - 250 boys to 7 girls

- we were in huge trouble (detentions etc) for not opening doors, putting hands in pockets, not standing up when an adult came into the room, basically anything that didn''t display good manners.

When I then went onto a grammar school (13-1 that was made up of a mix of children from private prep schools and the top 25% of the local state school, it was fascinating. When a teacher or adult came into the room all the prep school kids would stand up and say Good Morning, and all the others stayed sitting down. They thought it was very uncool to behave that way - and gradually everyone seemed to drift towards a middle ground as the staff didn''t put a premium on it.

I have noticed that it seems to be worse amongst teenagers, and I hate to say this but certain ethnic groups in London seem to be very much one way or another which probably comes down to cultural norms in their countries of origin.

When I lived in Italy I was shocked how unchivalrous most men were on the whole. I thought it would be a big thing over there, but it was actually very rare - and those who were tended to be extremely well-educated and from the upper-classes.

One thing I cannot abide is women who think that it is okay to be insulting to a man who treats her in a gentlemanly manner. I am perfectly capable of opening a door, pulling my own chair out etc and I doubt that anyone who knows me would ever think otherwise. Why on earth would I feel offended that someone would do this for me though? It is just as important that a woman responds in a suitably gracious manner.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 3/26/2009 3:54:01 PM
Author: Pandora II
For those who asked, yes I am in the UK.


I think it very much comes down to how people are taught by their parents and by their schools. At my private ''prep'' school (7-13) which was mainly boys - 250 boys to 7 girls

- we were in huge trouble (detentions etc) for not opening doors, putting hands in pockets, not standing up when an adult came into the room, basically anything that didn''t display good manners.


When I then went onto a grammar school (13-1 that was made up of a mix of children from private prep schools and the top 25% of the local state school, it was fascinating. When a teacher or adult came into the room all the prep school kids would stand up and say Good Morning, and all the others stayed sitting down. They thought it was very uncool to behave that way - and gradually everyone seemed to drift towards a middle ground as the staff didn''t put a premium on it.


I have noticed that it seems to be worse amongst teenagers, and I hate to say this but certain ethnic groups in London seem to be very much one way or another which probably comes down to cultural norms in their countries of origin.


When I lived in Italy I was shocked how unchivalrous most men were on the whole. I thought it would be a big thing over there, but it was actually very rare - and those who were tended to be extremely well-educated and from the upper-classes.


One thing I cannot abide is women who think that it is okay to be insulting to a man who treats her in a gentlemanly manner. I am perfectly capable of opening a door, pulling my own chair out etc and I doubt that anyone who knows me would ever think otherwise. Why on earth would I feel offended that someone would do this for me though? It is just as important that a woman responds in a suitably gracious manner.

I don''t find chivalry to be very class based in the states...

 

[Amandine]

Date: 3/26/2009 10:28:32 AM
Author: luvthemstrawberries

Date: 3/25/2009 7:37:59 PM

Author: trillionaire

So cool to hear about different cultural orientations towards chivalry. As a matter of fact, I experienced something very similar when I travelled to Atlanta, GA from Los Angeles. Everyone was so nice and helpful in GA, it was a total shock! Pleasant surprise though, with people carrying my bags and openning doors and being ever so helpful!

Hehe that''s the South for ya!

I''d like to say it''s that way all throughout the South, but sadly it''s not so true anymore. Lots of people are just plain jerks. But there are lots of good ones still left, and lots of them are bringing up the next generation to be that way too, which is so great.

I felt the same way when I first moved to Georgia! I was startled (and pleased!) to have the door held open for me, and I remember one gentleman who even stepped aside so I could go up the escalator first. Now that I have lived here longer, I know I experience it still, but notice it less. So, no, I don''t think chivalry is dead.