Is Chivalry dead?

[trillionaire]

Is Chivalry dead? Would it matter if it was? How do you define chivalry?

 

[dragonfly411]

I don''t think it''s dead, but man do I want to know how to instill it in my SO completely. He is chivalrous in some ways, and some not. Sigh.....

 

[AmberGretchen]

Not dead, but certainly rare...

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 3/25/2009 5:22:18 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Not dead, but certainly rare...

Ditto.

 

[steph72276]

Date: 3/25/2009 5:22:18 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Not dead, but certainly rare...

Agreed. My hubby always opens doors for women and has taught my 4 year old son to do the same. My little one and I were going to eat at Panera Bread the other day and he opened the door and said to the lady in front of us "ladies first"! But I must say, it is rare...like when I was 6 months pregnant on a train going to the airport terminal and no one offered a seat and I had to stand up...that is so rude. I'm not a man, and I always offer my seat to pregnant or elderly people and I always hold doors open for people right behind me. Some people just don't have manners anymore.

 

[tlh]

Date: 3/25/2009 5:25:11 PM
Author: steph72276

Date: 3/25/2009 5:22:18 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Not dead, but certainly rare...

Agreed. My hubby always opens doors for women and has taught my 4 year old son to do the same. My little one and I were going to eat at Panera Bread the other day and he opened the door and said to the lady in front of us ''ladies first''! But I must say, it is rare...like when I was 6 months pregnant on a train going to the airport terminal and no one offered a seat and I had to stand up...that is so rude. I''m not a man, and I always offer my seat to pregnant or elderly people and I always hold doors open for people right behind me. Some people just don''t have manners anymore.

Yeah - it is becoming more and more rare... sad to say. Good thing we''ve married and are raising some good ones!

 

[Pandora II]

It''s certainly still here - I''ve been offered a seat on the bus or tube everytime I''ve taken either for the last 5 months (ie since I''ve ''looked'' pregnant), and have often been offered them in the past just for being female.

Most men I know will open doors for me, walk on the road-side of the pavement, wait till I''m inside my front door if they give me a lift home, carry my suitcases and generally treat me in a gentlemanly manner.

I definitely expect men to be chivalrous.

 

[HollyS]

If you are talking manners, it is not dead but definitely limping. (And the average woman doesn''t behave any better.)

If you are talking true chivalry, where a man will protect women and children, even at his own peril, it is probably on life support.

But I don''t think either will ever be completely dead. There will always be ''real men'', even if they are a minority.

 

[JulieN]

No man is chivalrous in all ways at all times. It''ll never die out, though, because it makes men feel good.

 

[mayachel]

The problem is that it is one of those, "the good deed is its own reward" actions. If men only knew the rewards women are willing to heap on them for doing so though...

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 3/25/2009 5:25:11 PM
Author: steph72276

Date: 3/25/2009 5:22:18 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Not dead, but certainly rare...

Agreed. My hubby always opens doors for women and has taught my 4 year old son to do the same. My little one and I were going to eat at Panera Bread the other day and he opened the door and said to the lady in front of us ''ladies first''! But I must say, it is rare...like when I was 6 months pregnant on a train going to the airport terminal and no one offered a seat and I had to stand up...that is so rude. I''m not a man, and I always offer my seat to pregnant or elderly people and I always hold doors open for people right behind me. Some people just don''t have manners anymore.

That''s great Steph! I''m not sure if chivalry is dead. I think it''s polite to hold doors open for the person behind you and as you mentioned, offer your seat to someone else in need, no matter if you''re a woman or a man.

 

[strmrdr]

nope because I practice it.
Except on occasion when I''m not paying attention while thinking about something else.
But its pretty much automatic to check to see if someone is behind me when going out a door and for someone else entering when going in so that isn''t often.
I hold the door for pretty much anyone guy gal young or old pretty much every time I''m out and about.

Thankfully the 5 year phase where ladies of a certain age would get snarky if you opened the door for them is past.

The other day I was at the bank and a elderly lady came in with a walker and I let her in front of me which was jumping 5 or 6 people.
One young punk made a nasty remark about it and another guy in line asked him how he would like his leg broken so he would know how it felt for it to be hard to get around. I said you break one and I will break the other for him.
The jerk shut up.
The guy who spoke up was around 20ish the same age as the jerk so there is hope yet.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 3/25/2009 6:42:51 PM
Author: mayachel
The problem is that it is one of those, 'the good deed is its own reward' actions. If men only knew the rewards women are willing to heap on them for doing so though...

Agreed. I was telling my friends that a man that treats a woman well will see very quickly what type of woman she is. The type that appreciates kindnesses and reciprocates, or the kind that constantly demands more, more, more!

My SO, I would not really call very chivalrous. He rarely opens my car door, only pulls out my chair in social settings with others, pretty much always opens doors when we are entering buildings, but I don't consider these things to be highly imporant. (he does believe ladies first, too) However, he will help elderly people, especially my grandmother, and he will give up his seat for woman, children, the elderly, etc. He always stops to help jump people's car batteries, and will help anyone in need. These things are FAR more important to me and speak to his true nature and character than chairs and doors. And he doesn't curse in front of his mother.

(he didn't curse in front of me for years until I told him it was ok, lol!

)

I don't need to be treated like a child (ie, you doing everything for me) but I do expect to be treated like a lady, ie, I am NOT one of the guys.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think it has slowly declined as feminism proliferated. But I, personally, really appreciate men who are!

 

[Lill_The_Thrill]

Date: 3/25/2009 5:53:27 PM
Author: Pandora II
It's certainly still here - I've been offered a seat on the bus or tube everytime I've taken either for the last 5 months (ie since I've 'looked' pregnant), and have often been offered them in the past just for being female.

Most men I know will open doors for me, walk on the road-side of the pavement, wait till I'm inside my front door if they give me a lift home, carry my suitcases and generally treat me in a gentlemanly manner.

I definitely expect men to be chivalrous.

You're in the UK if my memory serves me right?

....You ladies in the UK are spoiled

....It's realllyy *very* different there, compared to other places I've been. Chivalry is very much alive in the UK (in my opinion). I was visiting there for 5 days, men would open doors, give me their seat on the bus, etc, and I've *never* ever experienced that in Sweden (where I am), not one single person has opened a door for me here in Sweden, itäs just not common here, at ALL...Men get on the bus or train and run for the empty seat.

I remember being shocked by how nice people esp men in London were, opening doors, helping us with our suitcases on the tube, etc, and the second we got back to Sweden, and were trying to get on the train with our suitcases, people would literally push us, to get on the train before us.

Talk about reality check.

 

[strmrdr]

car doors and chairs I don''t do so much.
Just in social situations.
Wifey2b is usually in or out of the car before I am anyway.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 3/25/2009 7:31:04 PM
Author: Lill_The_Thrill

Date: 3/25/2009 5:53:27 PM
Author: Pandora II
It''s certainly still here - I''ve been offered a seat on the bus or tube everytime I''ve taken either for the last 5 months (ie since I''ve ''looked'' pregnant), and have often been offered them in the past just for being female.

Most men I know will open doors for me, walk on the road-side of the pavement, wait till I''m inside my front door if they give me a lift home, carry my suitcases and generally treat me in a gentlemanly manner.

I definitely expect men to be chivalrous.

You''re in the UK if my memory serves me right?

....You ladies in the UK are spoiled

....It''s realllyy *very* different there, compared to other places I''ve been. Chivalry is very much alive in the UK (in my opinion). I was visiting there for 5 days, men would open doors, give me their seat on the bus, etc, and I''ve *never* ever experienced that in Sweden (where I am), not one single person has opened a door for me here in Sweden, itäs just not common here, at ALL...Men get on the bus or train and run for the empty seat.

I remember being shocked by how nice people esp men in London were, opening doors, helping us with our suitcases on the tube, etc, and the second we got back to Sweden, and were trying to get on the train with our suitcases, people would literally push us, to get on the train before us.

Talk about reality check.

So cool to hear about different cultural orientations towards chivalry. As a matter of fact, I experienced something very similar when I travelled to Atlanta, GA from Los Angeles. Everyone was so nice and helpful in GA, it was a total shock! Pleasant surprise though, with people carrying my bags and openning doors and being ever so helpful!

 

[isaku5]

IMHO, mid to radical feminism has died out, thank goodness. My hubby and I each hold open doors for others as it''s our natural way of doing things. In the past, when I travelled by bus or rail, I stood for someone older, mobility challenged or pregnant. Since I haven''t use either mode of transportation for years, I''ve yet to ''test'' it.

We taught our kids to follow our example, but what they do when we''re not around, I don''t know. Same with grandgirls...

 

[packrat]

I don''t think it''s dead but I do think people''s expectations are lowered.

 

[Haven]

I think some men are still very chivalrous, while others are just plain oblivious.

I do have to say that it''s rare for a man to not hold a door open and let me through first when I''m out and about, so Chicago gets a gold star for chivalry from me. I also see a lot of courteous "good morning" type nods from strangers, and they almost always stand up when I excuse myself from a room or the table. I don''t think chivalry is dead!

My DH could stand to be more chivalrous in some areas, but he always opens doors for me, stands on the road-side of the sidewalk, and carries things for me. He''s such a sweetheart.

I suppose I''m really defining chivalry as basic good manners, and not true chivalry.

 

[Kelli]

It''s not dead, but it''s not lookin'' so healthy either. I actually get surprised now when I come across someone with good manners. It shouldn''t have to be that way, but luckily for me, my fiancee''s dad did a WONDERFUL job teaching him. He is the most polite and thoughtful guy I know

 

[FrekeChild]

FI is chivalrous. Don''t know anyone else that is though...

 

[Deelight]

Date: 3/26/2009 2:00:08 AM
Author: FrekeChild
FI is chivalrous. Don''t know anyone else that is though...

Ditto, but so was his Poppa FI is old school and I like it like that .

 

[katebar]

My husband is totally not but I BLAME his mother. She taught him that he was as 'good' as any woman and that he should have the door held for him (People I am not joking)
His Dad is very chivalrous but DH completely missed that modelling due to his mother.
I am trying to teach my son to be and its is sort of getting through. He appears respectful of his elders and tries his best. But after years of seeing his father walk first through the door etc etc it takes a bit to*show* him that this is not acceptable.
Interesting when i have called DH on this over the last 25 years he always harks back to the feminist argument that he was to scared to be chivalrous but I know its his mother's fault!
I have to say I think that USA men are far more respectful that here in Australia.

 

[klewis]

I''m not sure I really understand what is meant by chivalry. I think it''s the special courtesy a man gives to a woman.
Regardless of their gender, I would almost always open the door and let the other person through first ,but I would never pull back a chair to help some one take their seat (yes, maybe that''s a cultural difference), unless they are elderly. It seems patronizing to single out women to be treated this way. I suppose chivalry is treating a woman like a Queen, so I guess if she''s willing to treat him like a King , then great.
As for "Women and Children first" in an emergency....I think that should be changed to either "women with children first " or "parents with children first" - the children are the deciding factor to me.
I guess you wouldn''t want to be on a sinking ship with me!

<BR.

 

[Bia]

I would have to say that my FI is pretty good. He opens the door for me, pulls out my chair (only at the fancier places though LOL), walks on the outside of the street, etc. Gotta hand it to him.

As for men in NY, I think they are pretty good too...I don''t know if it can be termed "chivalrous." Everyone''s in a rush, but for the most part, they hold doors open and help if you need it. I can''t speak for seats on the subway because I rarely take the train but on the few occasions I have, it''s always been fine.

Also, for those who said men in the South are good, I too have noticed Southern men are very chivalrous. It''s in their DNA or something.

 

[Shoopy]

Bia-I love when FI walks on the outside of the street.


A funny/cute story to share re: chivalry.

I was waiting for an elevator with 4 women, a man, and a 5 year old. This was a day the kids were out of school and our building has a little camp set up for them so that the parents don''t miss work.

Anyway, the elevator arrives and the man gets in before all the women. The boy says "excuse me ladies first!" The mom was mortified mainly because the man is an SVP. So she tells him to quiet down and he says "but mooommm you told me ladies first always!" The SVP took it well though, giggled, and apologized. But the mom was really embarrassed. I told her she shouldn''t be...the SVP should for getting a lesson on chivalry from a 5 year old

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 3/25/2009 6:19:34 PM
Author: HollyS
If you are talking manners, it is not dead but definitely limping. (And the average woman doesn''t behave any better.)

If you are talking true chivalry, where a man will protect women and children, even at his own peril, it is probably on life support.

But I don''t think either will ever be completely dead. There will always be ''real men'', even if they are a minority.

SO true. People in general have just become more rude. I love it when I come in contact with the exceptions.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 3/25/2009 7:08:47 PM
Author: strmrdr
nope because I practice it.
Except on occasion when I''m not paying attention while thinking about something else.
But its pretty much automatic to check to see if someone is behind me when going out a door and for someone else entering when going in so that isn''t often.
I hold the door for pretty much anyone guy gal young or old pretty much every time I''m out and about.

Thankfully the 5 year phase where ladies of a certain age would get snarky if you opened the door for them is past.

The other day I was at the bank and a elderly lady came in with a walker and I let her in front of me which was jumping 5 or 6 people.
One young punk made a nasty remark about it and another guy in line asked him how he would like his leg broken so he would know how it felt for it to be hard to get around. I said you break one and I will break the other for him.
The jerk shut up.
The guy who spoke up was around 20ish the same age as the jerk so there is hope yet.

That''s so good to hear about the young guy - there IS hope!

 

[allycat0303]

I'm really big on this. It is one of my requirements for dating a man. A guy that walks through the door ahead of me and lets it slam in his face, will probably wonder where I am once he gets inside.

Opens doors
Opens car doors and closes them behind me
Holds my coat for me
Pulls the chair out at a resturant
Walks on the outside of the street
Stands when I come to the table/in a room.
Carries anything that could be considered heavy (even my school bag which has my lunch)

This is what my guy will do for me, and I couldn't imagine it any other way. I have heard a guy say that he didn't do this for his girlfriend because he didn't think it was "masculine and that he would look whipped" I laughed, and said, "you don't realize that you just made yourself incredibly more attractive to the girl you're with and every girl in the resturant that noticed. How is that not masculine?"

I think it is more rare in these days, but I plan on raising boys that are going to do these things.