Is brillianteering a deal-breaker??

[chickpea]

The GIA report for a stone lists the following specs, which score a 1.6 (EX/VG/VG/EX) on the HCA:

Depth %: 60.3
Table %: 55
Crown Angle: 34.8
Pavilion Angle: 40.9

The cut has been graded only as "Very Good" by the GIA. A note on the report says the grade was affected by brillianteering.

The Sarin report for the same stone shows numbers that are slightly different, with a score of .9 (EX/EX/EX/VG) on the HCA:

Depth %: 60.4
Table %: 55.7
Crown Angle: 34.7
Pavilion Angle: 40.7

I believe the Sarin numbers fall within the AGS 0 range (correct me if I''m wrong). So it seems to me it would have received an "Excellent" cut grade if not for the brillianteering...

So to make a long question short: would the brillianteering / very good cut grade be a deal breaker for you on this stone?

 

[Lorelei]

No. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me with this stone, it looks good. It seems opinions vary on this matter, but it isn't something personally I would have an issue with. More important for me is the actual cut quality, numbers and proportions, IS and vendor's expertise and opinion of the diamond.

There are many threads on this issue, here is one which may give you the advice you seek. If in the end you are not comfortable then you might be best to find a diamond where brillianteering isn't an issue.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-cut-grade-affected-by-brillianteering.49713/

 

[chickpea]

Thanks, Lorelei

I had already read the thread you posted, as well as a few others. As you note, opinions seemed mixed on the subject, so I posted specs hoping someone with expertise would weigh in on this particular stone / situation.

I''m glad to hear you think it looks good!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/28/2008 11:28:02 AM
Author: chickpea
Thanks, Lorelei

I had already read the thread you posted, as well as a few others. As you note, opinions seemed mixed on the subject, so I posted specs hoping someone with expertise would weigh in on this particular stone / situation.

I'm glad to hear you think it looks good!

Welcome! It looks good to me...

Have you spoken to the folks at WF about this diamond, or are you just perusing at this stage?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 3/28/2008 11:40:46 AM
Author: Lorelei

It looks good to me...

What she said.

 

[chickpea]

Actually, I just received it set in a lovely pair of platinum bezel studs.

The GIA report on their web site is from 2004, and does not mention the brillianteering or the "very good" cut grade. So when I decided to purchase the diamond, I was basing the decision on the numbers in the sarin and the idealscope image. When I received the diamond with a more recent GIA report (Jan 200, I was surprised to see the cut grade listed only as "very good" and was wondering if this should be a cause for concern.

I''ve contacted WF for clarification (just want to say their customer service is excellent) and expect to hear from them this afternoon. But thought I''d run it by you knowledgeable PSers as well!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/28/2008 12:00:25 PM
Author: chickpea
Actually, I just received it set in a lovely pair of platinum bezel studs.

The GIA report on their web site is from 2004, and does not mention the brillianteering or the ''very good'' cut grade. So when I decided to purchase the diamond, I was basing the decision on the numbers in the sarin and the idealscope image. When I received the diamond with a more recent GIA report (Jan 200, I was surprised to see the cut grade listed only as ''very good'' and was wondering if this should be a cause for concern.

I''ve contacted WF for clarification (just want to say their customer service is excellent) and expect to hear from them this afternoon. But thought I''d run it by you knowledgeable PSers as well!

I think it will be fine! The old report was probably pre cut grade. Let us know what WF say.

 

[oldminer]

You can see from the IS photo that this diamond is no slug. The GIA has taken a rather small issue and created a line in their sand to divide one grade from another in a way that many find problematic. It isn''t like the good old days of the 1970''s or 1980''s where the GIA drew a line and everyone dared not to cross it. There are times where brillianteering has a measurable effect on characteristics of the diamond and other times when it just doesn''t make the level of difference a grading changing comment should make. If they would re-draw their line in a better place, it would be easier to simply march in step with the GIA ideology on this issue overall. Garry H showed me a diamond with GIA''s Very Good grade that was a dog. I have seen several with Very Good which looked nearly like AGS000 cut grade stones.

It is tiny things which set all diamond grades, especially at the top end of quality. However, the creation of divisions from one grade to the next is a potentially imperfect and subjective act. Maybe the grading will be adjusted a bit at some future time. It won''t change the looks of the diamonds, but just the grades. So, buy what you think looks best to you.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

All I would care about is that it looks the same as the diamond in the other earring. If you cannot tell the difference, then I wouldn''t give it another thought.

 

[denverappraiser]

Not only is it not a deal killer, I wouldn’t even describe it as bad. The reason GIA dings the cut grade for it is the belief that it’s done in order to drive up the weight (and presumably the price) at the expense of brilliance. There are cases where this happens but it’s far from the only reason and, in the case of ideal cut type stones like you’re looking at it’s not even the most common. I’ve seen eightstars get ‘good’ on the GIA cut grade for this reason and, frankly I think it’s a travesty that says more about the GIA and their grading scale than it does about the stones. The stone you’re looking at was precision cut to produce exactly the look they wanted and not everyone loves the look but to call that somehow a defect is completely missing the point. It’s like calling an oval a defective round. Personally, I love the focused look of the oldline ACA’s (which is what I think you’re seeing. Maybe something else like symmetry or the 'hearts' kept it out of the ACA line) and the Eightstars that use a similar technique but GIA is trying to train cutters to produce GIA’s image of what is ‘best’. To some extent this is exactly what is happening as cutters learn to toe the line but one of the other side effects is that the cutters of this kind of goods are tending to use AGSL for their grading because they have a more sensible way of dealing with this issue. I’m frankly surprised that this stone ever crossed the threshold at GIA. If you don’t buy it, I’ll venture a guess that it’ll be on the next plane to AGSL and it’ll come back at a higher priced ‘ideal’.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

Personally I agree with the reasons GIA gave it a VG grade but is it going too matter in an earring... not really.
If you like the looks of it there is no reason too trade it in.

 

[chickpea]

thanks to lorelei, ellen, diamondseeker, strmdr, and especially oldminer and denverappraiser for your detailed and informative responses. i knew i could count on you guys for help sorting this out

from what i can tell, IRL there is no discernible difference between this GIA stone and the AGS ACA in the other earring (though i''m rather new at diamonds and my eye is admittedly not expertly trained!)

so your reassurances that the brillianteering / very good cut grade are most likely not cause to return the stone are good news - i''d find it difficult to send my lovely new earrings back after just receiving them!

i haven''t heard anything conclusive from WF but will keep you posted. thanks again!

 

[Lorelei]

Glad to help and enjoy your lovely new earrings!!!

pics would be good....

 

[kcoursolle]

I wouldn''t hesitate to buy it, it should be very pretty in person!

 

[chickpea]

heh, Lorelei, i had a feeling that request would be coming!

i''ll see what i can do this weekend

 

[chickpea]

WF has written back with a very detailed description of brillianteering and how it affects cut grade in general and this stone in particular. they''ve assured me that in this case it enhances the face-up appearance of the stone, and that the stone is indeed a top-performer despite the GIA''s cut grade. with my own eyes i can''t see otherwise, so i''m happy to take their statement at face value.

perhaps, as Neil suggested, i just got lucky and ended up with a top-performing stone at a price less than i''d have paid had it been graded by someone else

whew. thanks again to all for your feedback!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I agree with Dave and neil.
Also this stone will appear larger than the same stone without ''brillianteering''

 

[Allison D.]

I was really glad to be of service to you, chickpea. I''m glad the community has also reassured you as well.

Enjoy your beautiful new earrings!