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Is better depth & table % worth going from F to G color?

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moredhel78

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
14
Hello everyone --

So I'm getting very close to choosing a diamond for an engagement ring :appl: but was confused on the importance of depth % & table%. Both diamonds I'm looking at are .7 ct, Ideal Cut, VS2 with Ideal symmetry, polish & light performance as rated by AGSL. 1 diamond is an F color with a depth ratio of 62.1% & table ratio of 54.6% while another diamond is a G color with a depth ratio 60.8% & a table ratio of 56.1%. The price difference is about $350 USD more for the G color due to strong fluorescence in the F color diamond. However, this is not really an issue since my gf actually likes the fluorescence effect.

The question I'm hoping for some guidance on is whether getting a better depth & table % worth going from a F color to a G color? I've read in various places that the closer a diamond's depth is to 60% & the closer its table ratio is to 55% - 57% the more it sparkles. Given this is an engagement ring & not an investment, I just want to get the most sparkly diamond possible and trying to determine if a higher color quality or a better depth/table ratio is the way to go.

Anyways, any insight into this issue would be greatly appreciated. :wavey:

Thanks!

- D
 
smart girlfriend ;) flour is the best!

as for color there is NO problem going to a g. Frankly i think you should be going even further down to get more bang for your buck. Maybe even go down to SI1 too. G is still very white. And really, an I is still very white. Dont think that just because its not in the DEF category it wont be stunning. A lot of first time buyer think you have to stay as high in color as possible. You dont. And frankly on its own she probably wouldnt even be able to guess what color it is, even if you went to an I

what is your budget for the stone, if you dont mind me asking
 
Who graded these stones? Can you post the other numbers (crown and pavillion angles, etc)?
 
Thanks for the quick response. Here are the answers to your questions:

1. Diamond 2 (F color)
- Depth: 62.1%
- Table: 54.6%
- Crown: 14.9%
- Crown: 34.1 degrees
- Pavillion: 43.1%
- Pavillion: 40.8 degrees
- Pointed cutlet (none)
- Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted

2. Diamond 1 (G color)
- Depth: 60.8%
- Table: 56%
- Crown: 15.4%
- Crown: 34.1 degrees
- Pavillion: 43.0%
- Pavillion: 40.5 degrees
- Pointed Cutlet (none)
- Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted

3. Both sets of numbers come from the diamonds' AGSL report.

4. Price range ideally around $3,000 for ring & setting but willing to go a bit higher for better quality.

Thanks! :appl:

- D
 
if you can get that G and a setting for 3k that seems like a really good deal! Id go for it.
 
Thanks. Will be a bit over 3k but not at a price I wouldn't consider it.

So in your opinion it would be worth going down to G color to get better ratios then? This is the area I'm most confused about.

- D
 
Does the report on the G come with the simulated ASET (AGS Platinum report?) Please post.
 
just incase those are stretching your budget a bit, here is an I that easily fits in your budget and you could afford a stunning solitaire to go with. because if you are going over 3k and buying a cheaper setting, jsut another option. This one has a nice stone AND setting 3k.... the whole package.

BUT if you are getting that G AND a nice setting for 3, then thats a steal!

http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-0-71-Carat-I-color-GIA-certified/D-G15R5P
http://www.ritani.com/engagement-rings/tulip-airline-solitaire-engagement-ring-in-18kt-white-gold/5444
 
I've posted both the AGS Platinum Light Performance Documents below for both diamonds.

- D

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G has PA 40.8, not 40.5. Big difference.

Either looks fine you are not going to notice any difference between them. Get the G because it is bigger. or get the F because it is cheaper, or you think fluoro is cool.
 
The G is larger in diameter, so I'd go for it.
 
Great - most likely go for the .7 ct because gf really likes the fluor effect. :love:

Thanks for all your help!! :appl:

- D
 
Wait! How much are these stones? I'd go lower than F and get fluorescence.
 
diamondseeker2006|1364160116|3412490 said:
Wait! How much are these stones? I'd go lower than F and get fluorescence.
Click to expand...


Absolutely agree! I would consider dropping color and keeping the fluorescence in order to increase the size. Fluorescence isn't so rare that you can't find a hundred others with a bigger face up size. Best of all worlds! ;)
 
The F diamond is about $2,850. What color would you recommend getting?
 
moredhel78|1364178617|3412673 said:
The F diamond is about $2,850. What color would you recommend getting?
Click to expand...
with flour I or J color
 
moredhel78|1364178617|3412673 said:
The F diamond is about $2,850. What color would you recommend getting?
Click to expand...

That price is good for either diamond. I'd still really go for the G because of the larger size unless you think she'd be unhappy without the fluorescence.
 
The cut on both stones is great. That is not a factor to consider when deciding here.
 
Thanks for all the advice - been very helpful. I love this forum!! In the end, I'll probably go with the F diamond for several reasons:

1. The G diamond is about $300 more which pushes it just above my budget. While not that much more, I don't think there is that a significant difference between .7 vs .72.

2. I've looked into lower color diamonds in the same price range - the maximum carat I'd be looking at is a .8 J color but without the fluorescence. I'm worried without the fluor, the color of the diamond may be more visible. With flour, I'm looking at around .75 carat at the J color. And at the color grade, I'm definitely looking for something with flour to make the diamond look a bit whiter.

3. From all the pictures I've seen, I think the fluor aspect adds a pretty cool & unique feature to a diamond as long as it's not oily/hazy. Definitely getting that checked out first.

4. While I may simply be buying into the the diamond industry's marketing, given all of these variables, I like the fact I can get a colorless diamond at this price. To me, there is not that much difference between .7c - .75c - being able to move up to .8 would make definitely consider but probably not in the J color range.

Anyways, thanks again for everyone sharing their thoughts & expertise. Definitely helped me navigate some of the issues I've been struggling to understand. Talk about a nerve-wracking process.

Now - I get to spend my time trying the best way to pop the question!! :Up_to_something:

- D
 
Did you ask BN if it is hazy? If not, get it.
 
Yes - I am having them check it for me. They said they will get back to me in a day or so.
 
What color: H is still very white, face-up. It might not look that way face-down, looking though the pavilion but it's not going to be a problem when mounted. "I" color is still white face-up but is the breakpoint where most people can start to notice tint, mainly from the side. I would still call it "white," though. J is definitely tinted, a slight yellow, to me. A J H&A RB can face up very white in certain situations where the diamond is reflecting a lot of white light but in dimmer lighting or on overcast days you will notice the tint in the diamond, even a diamond in the 6mm diameter range like a .8ct RB. I say try to look at some H and I colored diamonds and see if she likes them. I would have no problem with an H of 1ct or less.
 
I think the F stone is fine and especially since the other one is over your budget. But for educational purposes, do not compare size by weight because a .72 can easily be smaller in diameter than a .70. You always compare size by diameter when looking a stones of a similar weight.
 
Either of the diamond you picked are great. I don't know who you are working with now. But I. D. Jewelry has been able to find some really nice stones and still work with a budget. Depending how much time you have, you can also ask your vendor to try to locate, say, something 6mm (roughly .8ct) and higher color than J that is eye-clean.

I'm one of those people who doesn't mind seeing an inclusion, as long as it's one that you have to look pretty hard (or at just the right tilt or whatever) to find. See http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10507/ None of the inclusions are in the table area. A double-prong mounting would probably hide that inclusion that's at 4 o'clock.

There is a PriceScope adage that an upgrade that gets you 10% bigger (I am assuming that means face-up size, square area, in other words) is worth doing. Increasing from a 5.7mm diameter to 6mm diameter gets you about 9.7% larger surface area.
 
Hmmm - good to know about the diameter. Absolutely makes sense.

Good I bother you all for your opinions one more time? After reading through these posts, I started playing around a bit to see if I could get ~10% increase in diameter & found two possible stones. While they are a bit more expensive, if I change the settings from a petite band to a classic prong I can still fit them all into my budget (barely!). However, since both are from blue nile, I will have to rely on their gemologist to certify that they are eye-clean & that the fluorescence doesn't make the stone milky/hazy. Assuming everything checks out, in your opinions, would it be worth to drop going from a certified AGS000 F color to a larger stone in the G & H color range with the dimensions described below (Stone 2 & 3) as well as taking the risk I'll be buying diamonds blind?

One reason I like the F-stone is that it's VS1 so I can rest assured that it definitely will be eye clean. But if I maintain my VS1 criteria the increase in size I would be able to get dropping to G & H would only fall around the 5% zone (I am not willing to go below H color). So basically just trying to figure out if the two new stones I found are worth the drop in both clarity & color to gain size.

Thank again!

- D

1. Diamond 1 (Ideal cut, F Color, VS2, .7 carats)
- Dimensions: 5.67mm x 5.71mm x 3.54 mm.
- Depth: 62.1%
- Table: 54.6%
- Crown: 14.9%
- Crown: 34.1 degrees
- Pavillion: 43.1%
- Pavillion: 40.8 degrees
- Pointed cutlet (none)
- Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
- Fluorescence: Strong Blue
- Ideal Polish & Symmetry (AGS000)

2. Diamond 2 (Ideal cut, G color, SI1, .8 carats)
- Dimensions: 5.95mm x 5.91mm x 3.66mm
- Depth: 61.7%
- Table: 57.0%
- Crown: 14.5%
- Crown: 34.0 degrees
- Pavillion: 43.0%
- Pavillion: 40.8 degrees
- Pointed cutlet (none)
- Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted
- Fluorescence: Medium Blue
- Very Good Polish & Symmetry (GIA Report)

3. Diamond 3 (Ideal Cut, H color, SI1, .83 carat)
- Dimensions: 6.01mm x 6.04mm x 3.73mm
- Depth: 61.5%
- Table: 57%
- Crown: 15.0%
- Crown: 35.0 degrees
- Pavillion: 43.0%
- Pavillion: 40.8 degrees
- Pointed Cutlet (none)
- Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick
- Fluorescence: Strong Blue
- Excellent Polish & Symmetry (GIA Report)
 
I like that the h hits the 6mm mark and I'm a sucker for strong flour. As long as its not milky or oily that's my choice.
 
Definitely considering it. However, the more I look at the three diamonds, the more I'm actually leaning towards the 0.8 carat one. Main reason is I'll be able to get ~9% more surface area for ~4% increase in cost while the 0.83 will cost about ~11% more for ~12% increase in surface area. Plus, I'll only be dropping one color grade with the 0.8 carat rather than 2. Seems to me I would be getting more bang for my buck going to the 0.8.

However, my one concern with the 0.8 carat diamond is that it only has VG polish & symmetry (GIA rated) whereas the other two are rated Ideal (AGS) & Excellent (GIA). I've been reading a lot that most people can't tell the difference between VG & Excellent so should I stop obsessing over those details? The depth & table all fall within the ideal parameters as well as the cut (rated by GIA). So I guess what I'm asking is it worth dropping another color grade & a few more dollars to get Excellent Polish & Symmetry or does that seem a bit foolish?

Of course, all of this is thought process is predicated on both diamonds being eye-clean since they are both rated SI1. If not, will go with the 0.7c F diamond that is VS2.

Thanks again!!

- D
 
I've posted this before but I think that you may find it helpful. .1mm is the same width as a sheet of regular copy paper. So, going from a diameter of 5.7 to 6.0 is essential the width of three sheets of copy paper surrounding the diameter of the stone. That is definitely a visual size increase. If your super color sensitive then I'm not sure that you will be happy with an H even with fluorescence, but how does your gf feel about color? Is she as sensitive as you or would she notice size more? I think it's important to remember that this ring is for her, so the choices that you make, such as adding fluorescence (which you said she thinks is really cool) should be all about her. An H with strong blue (if not milky) is still a very white stone to the majority of people, but she needs to feel comfortable with that. Has she viewed stones with varying color grades?

As far as the clarity....SI stones need to be evaluated on a stone by stone basis. While I think that the majority of SI stones are eye clean, there are definitely some out there that have visible inclusions. That's one of the reasons that shopping with a vendor that offers images is important. If you have some time on your hands, then BN has a good return policy and you can view the stone in person and return it if you aren't satisfied. Returning more than a stone or two can get expensive though because I don't believe that BN offers free return shipping like some of the other vendors.
 
I'd go with the better cut (depth and table %) over one degree of color any day. I'm picky and I honestly can't tell the difference between an E and a G when they are face up.

If your lady prefers fluorescence, I really think you should go with that. (That's more marriage advice than ring advice though :saint: )
 
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