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Is being a LIW a bad way to start a marriage?

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Brilliant_Rock
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Apr 14, 2008
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Of course it doesn't have to be, but in your opinion, is it a bad indicator?

Do you think it's possible 20-30-something men these days are more likely to need a little needling from their women to propose?
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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*Deleted.
 

slg47

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I'm confused...at some point isn't everyone a LIW? Unless the engagement happens at the *first* thought of marriage...
 

PilsnPinkysMom

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LIW does not necessarily mean that the woman's other half is unwilling or uninterested in marriage. I also don't interpret to mean that the man needs a "nudge" in the right direction. I was a LIW because DH and I had talked about marriage, wanted to be engaged, and I was waiting for the big moment to actually happen.

Starting the path to marriage as a LIW is only negative if the future-husband proposed only because of a woman's pressure and persistence, before he was ready. I'm sure a nagging girlfriend is annoying, but shame on the man who commits to marriage for the wrong reasons. (And equal shame for the woman who wants to be engaged and marry for the wrong reasons, as well... lest anyone think I'm man-bashing)

There are certainly crazy LIWs out there, but so long as they're just "crazy in love" and not simply crazy for a diamond (and not putting unnecessary pressure on their future FIs) I see no harm.
 

lbbaber

Brilliant_Rock
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Where are the "men in waiting" groups??? lol. I'm not a fan of the terminology to be honest. I feel it implies that us women are waiting around to be chosen by a man....Hell, he's just lucky I chose him :lol: I understand it though....sadly, that's the way it goes. The men traditionally get to do the asking. With my current relationship I was never a LIW, I had no intention to EVER be married again but he finally changed my mind. Occasionally, when I read *some* of the posts in LIW, I wanna just shake the poster and say "you are better than that!!!". It seems like some of the "waiters" are seriously NOWHERE NEAR on the same page as their SO. Those posts make me sad.
 

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Brilliant_Rock
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slg47|1304305633|2909676 said:
I'm confused...at some point isn't everyone a LIW? Unless the engagement happens at the *first* thought of marriage...
I was wondering how much to define "LIW" so I left it open to be safe. I think there is a significant difference between waiting for just the right moment for something both parties are ready for, and the months/years wait for him to get on board.

I posed the question at all because I know of a couple who are about to get married, he has cold feet, and my circle is speculating that it never would have been a problem if she hadn't been the, in my mind, typical LIW: needling, hinting, forwarding rings, etc.

On the other hand, many of my guy friends say they'd delay as long as they thought they could get away with it. Not opposed to marriage really, just generally want to delay the whole thing as long as they can.

But then again, I think every woman would be happiest with a man who was as excited about getting married as she was, and if he just didn't have that in him, it would be better to find a guy who did feel that way.
 

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Brilliant_Rock
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PilsnPinkysMom|1304305984|2909680 said:
LIW does not necessarily mean that the woman's other half is unwilling or uninterested in marriage. I also don't interpret to mean that the man needs a "nudge" in the right direction. I was a LIW because DH and I had talked about marriage, wanted to be engaged, and I was waiting for the big moment to actually happen.

Starting the path to marriage as a LIW is only negative if the future-husband proposed only because of a woman's pressure and persistence, before he was ready. I'm sure a nagging girlfriend is annoying, but shame on the man who commits to marriage for the wrong reasons. (And equal shame for the woman who wants to be engaged and marry for the wrong reasons, as well... lest anyone think I'm man-bashing)

There are certainly crazy LIWs out there, but so long as they're just "crazy in love" and not simply crazy for a diamond (and not putting unnecessary pressure on their future FIs) I see no harm.
Okay... so what's necessary or necessary pressure? When does "checking to make sure we're on the same page" roll into something unhealthy for the relationship?
 

iheartscience

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Interesting thread! I think it all depends on the relationship. If they have a strong relationship with good communication and it's obvious they're both interested in heading for marriage, I don't think the woman telling her boyfriend she's ready to take the next step is a bad thing in the least.

What I do see sometimes in the LIW forum is that the man really isn't on the same page as the woman, but is happy enough with the status quo that he's willing to drag out the relationship as long as possible without getting married. In those cases I don't think the LIWitis is the issue. I think that's the fault of both parties in the relationship. I blame the inability of the man to break things off once he realizes he's not interested in marriage, AND the inability of the woman to see that she's not going to get what she needs and break things off.

And for the record, I know this can go both ways-it's just that we only have a LIW thread on PS. It's not quite the same, but I got a tiny diamond promise ring from a boyfriend at age 15 (he was 18), and he really thought we were going to get married. My 15 year old self knew that was never going to happen. ;))
 

fieryred33143

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What you're talking about are crazy/dramatic LsIW which is drastically different from your standard LIW.
 

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Brilliant_Rock
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fiery|1304311672|2909759 said:
What you're talking about are crazy/dramatic LsIW which is drastically different from your standard LIW.
You know, I am not sure that it has to be. I think a calm, albeit possibly slightly self-deluded LIW can drag a man toward the altar without ever recognizing he has serious reservations. Now I agree, it is his fault for letting himself get dragged into it, but it's the LIW who suffers if, instead of waiting around for this guy, she doesn't start over with a guy who is excited about marriage.

But, then I think of my totally awesome dad, who never wanted kids, had me on accident, and claims to have never had one single regret.

And besides that, is it less common for a man to really look forward to marriage anyway? I took my own advice after the last breakup and screened out guys who were "scared off" by the idea of marriage, and ended up with someone foreign-born. Are American men just "over" marriage?
 

Circe

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lbbaber|1304306418|2909691 said:
Where are the "men in waiting" groups??? lol. I'm not a fan of the terminology to be honest. I feel it implies that us women are waiting around to be chosen by a man....Hell, he's just lucky I chose him :lol:.
This.

I think each and every couple needs to figure out what's right for them ... but as a social phenomenon, the idea that women need to wait around until some dude does them the honor makes my teeth ache. I think that, across the board, it reinforces the notion of female passivity, and, yeah, that's the wrong foot to start off on ... or at least, it would be for me.

I remember one ex who started joking about marriage, like, two weeks into the relationship, in this "I am totally serious about this and I need to play if off by acting like you are too because you are A Girl" way. I was already a commitmentphobe par excellence, so after one annoying sexist joke too many about how women want to get maaaaaaaaaaaried, I finally told him not to worry, if I ever wanted to wed, I'd just ask, no beating around the bush.

He immediately started whining about feeling emasculated.

So, five years later, I wound up proposing on the spur of the moment to a man who knew me really well, whose first words after "yes" were "I was putting off asking you to accommodate your commitmentphobia!" and who is sufficiently secure in his masculinity that nothing ever, ever, ever makes him feel emasculated. And the practical result is that I never have to feel antsy, or like I have to hide my feelings from the person who's supposed to be closest to me. It's a pretty good situation all around, as far as I can see ....
 

Haven

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I think it's a bad start to a marriage if one partner had to be coerced or manipulated into getting married. I don't think that's exclusively the task of women, though, as I've seen men act the part just as well. Now that most of my close friends are married I'm seeing a new phenomenon--Daddies in Waiting--young men who are pressuring their wives to have babies before they're ready. I don't think that's a great way to start parenthood, either.

Of course, I think you really never can tell with couples. I have friends who are currently heading toward divorce and they seemed like the happiest people we knew. Their decision to marry was mutual, nobody was in waiting, and yet it has come to this. On the other hand, I know couple who really seemed doomed from the beginning, and they've turned out to be really functional and happy together.
 

HollyS

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 18, 2007
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6,099
Well, we could ask "Waity Katy" . . .

It isn't necessarily that some men need a push. Some men wait until it is the right thing to do, given the circumstances. As did Prince William. As did my own husband. I can tell you, just by the way the royal couple interact, just by the way they look at each other, their marriage will be rock solid - - because the relationship is already rock solid. Certainly, it was worth the wait for her.

I dated my husband for 12 years before we became engaged, and then we were engaged for over a year before our wedding. That was about 7 years too long a wait, for me. BUT - - I knew he was the right choice, the right man, and we would be happy in our marriage. We are. I regret not one moment of being patient for this man. He regrets taking so long to understand that he really was good enough for me. Silly man. :bigsmile:

So, no, being a LIW does not diminish the quality of a marriage. It is not a *less than* situation at all.

However, my personal opinion is that everyone knows, in their gut, whether their relationship is truly worth the wait - - or if they are in denial about the viability of the relationship.
 

NewEnglandLady

Ideal_Rock
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I think that if the road to engagement was a bumpy one, then the core of the issue should be resolved before getting married or it will likely be carried into the marriage as well.

I hate re-hashing my situation, but it's relevant, so I want to chime in. I was ready for marriage long before my DH. He thought he wanted to be married, but when push came to shove, he was scared. It took a heavy toll on our relationship--I felt insecure and resentful, he felt pressured. I did leave the relationship--NOT as a form of manipulation, but rather a genuine attempt to move on with my life. The entire process was hard on both of us.

We both went to therapy before getting engaged--I went before the relationship ended because I felt completely overwhelmed at the thought of leaving a man I loved dearly, but knowing it was best for me in the long-run. He want because he realized that if he was ever going to have a healthy marriage, he needed to get over his fear of commitment. Most importantly, we did couples counseling before getting married to talk about the toll the "overcooked" relationship took on both of us. I needed to know that he was not going to be fearful for all of the "big steps"--buying a house, having kids, etc.

When I left D, I joined a support group of women who were going through the same thing. Two of us really addressed the issues and are happy in our marriage. One got married, but they've been counseling for two years because he still has fears about "next steps". Three others who got married to their boyfriends who kept them "waiting" are divorced--One of the husbands was never able to move in with his wife--he wouldn't sell his house after the wedding and wouldn't allow her and her daughter to move in. One divorced because he became terrified of having kids. The last divorced because he cheated on her. Two moved on to get married to other men and are very happy (both now have kids).

If it's a SERIOUS issue in the relationship that is causing the delay, and not just a bit of cold feet, then it will leak into the marriage if left unchecked.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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suchende|1304347271|2909979 said:
fiery|1304311672|2909759 said:
What you're talking about are crazy/dramatic LsIW which is drastically different from your standard LIW.
You know, I am not sure that it has to be. I think a calm, albeit possibly slightly self-deluded LIW can drag a man toward the altar without ever recognizing he has serious reservations. Now I agree, it is his fault for letting himself get dragged into it, but it's the LIW who suffers if, instead of waiting around for this guy, she doesn't start over with a guy who is excited about marriage.

But, then I think of my totally awesome dad, who never wanted kids, had me on accident, and claims to have never had one single regret.

And besides that, is it less common for a man to really look forward to marriage anyway? I took my own advice after the last breakup and screened out guys who were "scared off" by the idea of marriage, and ended up with someone foreign-born. Are American men just "over" marriage?
I don't think so at all. It seems (in my circles anyway) evenly split. Just as many men are eager to get married as women and why not? For many men getting married is a sweet deal and if I remember correctly studies back this up. The happiest group are married men and the least happy group married women (at least older studies I remember reading many years ago).

So no, I don't think it is less common for a man to look forward to marriage. I think perhaps PS attracts women who are more excited about getting engaged and that is why they post in this section. Many women (myself included) never even heard of PS before during and after the engagement process. I stumbled upon PS when I was resetting my ER years after I had gotten married.
 

Lady_Disdain

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I admit I have a hard time relating to LIW and it is a part of PS I don't visit often.

I don't think the nagging, hinting and pushing dynamics are healthy. Nor is the lack of a straight answer and various stalling techniques used by many of the guys. It is an important subject and I sometimes worry how some of the couples will deal with other life changing decisions (such as a baby, for example).

Then again, to me, marriage is not a goal and something that I may or may not do. I certainly won't feel like I missed out if I don't get married, so please take my views with a whole shaker of salt.
 

Dancing Fire

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Haven|1304349298|2910000 said:
I think it's a bad start to a marriage if one partner had to be coerced or manipulated into getting married. I don't think that's exclusively the task of women, though, as I've seen men act the part just as well. Now that most of my close friends are married I'm seeing a new phenomenon--Daddies in Waiting--young men who are pressuring their wives to have babies before they're ready. I don't think that's a great way to start parenthood, either.
LOL!!...what are the signals that he's ready to be a daddy?.. :confused: :read:
 

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Brilliant_Rock
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I know a slew of Daddies-in-waiting, two of whom have LIW girlfriends! Cart before the horse much?
 

PilsnPinkysMom

Brilliant_Rock
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suchende|1304306863|2909700 said:
PilsnPinkysMom|1304305984|2909680 said:
LIW does not necessarily mean that the woman's other half is unwilling or uninterested in marriage. I also don't interpret to mean that the man needs a "nudge" in the right direction. I was a LIW because DH and I had talked about marriage, wanted to be engaged, and I was waiting for the big moment to actually happen.

Starting the path to marriage as a LIW is only negative if the future-husband proposed only because of a woman's pressure and persistence, before he was ready. I'm sure a nagging girlfriend is annoying, but shame on the man who commits to marriage for the wrong reasons. (And equal shame for the woman who wants to be engaged and marry for the wrong reasons, as well... lest anyone think I'm man-bashing)

There are certainly crazy LIWs out there, but so long as they're just "crazy in love" and not simply crazy for a diamond (and not putting unnecessary pressure on their future FIs) I see no harm.
Okay... so what's necessary or necessary pressure? When does "checking to make sure we're on the same page" roll into something unhealthy for the relationship?
When the woman has crying fits every other day about not yet being engaged? :wink2: I don't really know... I guess the answer varies from couple to couple. I think it's unhealthy when one partner pushes so consistently that the other partner feels truly angry, pressured, etc. At that point it is time to step back and reevaluate the situation.

I'm sure I annoyed my DH a bit with talk of wedding plans, but that did not really start until he had the ring.

And... Daddies in Waiting? :shock: I've never heard of such a thing! Can you introduce them to my husband? Maybe their eagerness will rub off on him a little bit! :naughty:
 

Izzy03

Brilliant_Rock
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Maybe its just me, but I don't think I would ever get excited about marrying a man who did not express a strong desire to marry me as well.

I don't see anything wrong with waiting for marriage with a man who you genuinely want to spend the rest of your life with, providing he feels the same way about you. I think the problem lies with those girls who are in a rush to get married in general just because the man is there.
 

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Brilliant_Rock
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Izzy03|1304997642|2917002 said:
Maybe its just me, but I don't think I would ever get excited about marrying a man who did not express a strong desire to marry me as well.

I don't see anything wrong with waiting for marriage with a man who you genuinely want to spend the rest of your life with, providing he feels the same way about you. I think the problem lies with those girls who are in a rush to get married in general just because the man is there.
I hear what you're saying with this, but there's nothing particularly wrong with wanting to get married, and knowing that you're dating with the purpose of finding a husband. The whole "just wants to get married, not specifically get married to the guy she's with" line of thought suggests that it's inappropriate to have marriage as a goal, and that women should just wait around until they get seized by some romantic desire to marry the guy they're with. That's great if it works for you, but I just don't see it being a bad thing to want a traditional marriage and family, and being conscious and proactive about it.
 

Izzy03

Brilliant_Rock
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suchende|1305004567|2917090 said:
I hear what you're saying with this, but there's nothing particularly wrong with wanting to get married, and knowing that you're dating with the purpose of finding a husband. The whole "just wants to get married, not specifically get married to the guy she's with" line of thought suggests that it's inappropriate to have marriage as a goal, and that women should just wait around until they get seized by some romantic desire to marry the guy they're with. That's great if it works for you, but I just don't see it being a bad thing to want a traditional marriage and family, and being conscious and proactive about it.
I think dating with the goal of intention of finding a husband is completely acceptable, I was referring to women who are marrying the wrong man for the wrong reasons. Those who try to force a marriage with someone just so they can be married (they want the ring, the dress, the house), rather than finding someone that they will be compatible with and can see a future with. Does that make sense? I feel like many get too wrapped up in the fantasy of the wedding, when the focus should be on the marriage.
 
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