Is airlines charging by weight fair or discriminatory?

[justginger]

All serious discriminatory issues aside, I had to laugh when I read it was a Samoan airline who was doing this.

On our trip back from Samoa (direct flight from Apia to Sydney) we had to divert to Fiji and refuel becasue the plane was overweight. Some of the people on that plane were HUGE and I am not talking overweight huge, I'm talking hands the size of dinner plates and bodies that would easily be 3 rugby players in one. As I said, they were not overweight, they were just big compared to what I consider 'big' in a western population. Perhaps that is why they are doing it? because they can make more money knowing that a large amount of their clientelle would be Samoan?

Just a thought!

I admit, I loled that it was a Samoan policy as well. Wonder how much they plan to charge their international rugby players?!

 

[missy]

I don't know how I feel about the specific example. All I know is that I feel it is unfair when I lose part of my seat because the person beside me needs more room. Why should I suffer when I paid for a full seat?

A real example:
Arm rest is down and the passenger beside me puts it up when he sits down. I proceed to put it down.
Person: "Can we leave it up so I can get a more comfortable ride?"
Me: "I understand but I am sorry. I don't feel comfortable with the arm rest up."
Person: "You are tiny and have so much room."
He then proceeds to sit blocking the arm rest. I am no longer able to lower the arm rest and I am sitting beside the window.

What would you do in this situation?

Another difficult situation. I would ask the flight attendant if I could move my seat. If there was no suitable place to move (including first class or business) I would complain privately to someone in charge (whether that be the flight attendant or someone on the plane with more authority I don't know) and see how they could resolve this. If there was no way to resolve this issue I would expect some form of reimbursement. Would that make the flight more comfortable for me? No. But it would make me feel better about the whole unfortunate situation. I will say that this is why I prefer to fly business or first class if I can afford to. In the old days I would ask for the emergency exit row where there is more leg space but nowadays I think that is way more difficult to get. I'm thin but I have long legs and there is just never enough room in coach for me to sit comfortably. I cannot imagine how 6 foot people can do it!

 

[yennyfire]

I think this is a no win situation. I get that the heavier the plane, the more fuel it uses. However, charging by weight seems like lighitng a fuse and waiting for an explosion for all of the reasons that have been stated previously.

My husband is 6'5 and weighs about 290 (he needs to lose about 40 lbs.). Flying for him is a nightmare (and he flies at least 2-3x a month for work) because he can barely squeeze his knees into the space provided. I wonder what his employer would say if they had to pay more for his ticket because he's larger? Can you imagine the ramifications for businesses and their employees??

 

[Mayk]

I think it's less about weight and more about ability to fit into the seat. I unfortunately sat next to a very large man on a recent flight (I fly about three or four times a month on a regular basis). The gentleman was sitting in the middle seat when I arrived at my seat. The arm rest was up because he was so large it could not go down. He filled the isle in front of him also, so the tray would not go down. It was a short flight and while I had only about half my seat because he was reading and his elbows kept hitting me I tried to find comfort.. just my luck as the door closed some silly light in the cockpit didn't light up. We sat on the plane for an hour on the ground before taking off. My short flight now not so short flight was even more uncomfortable. My back hurt from leaning into the isle. I didn't want to say anytying for the very reason I'm sure it's difficult enough to be so large but to have someone make a big deal about it and that was not what I wanted to do. But with that being said.. I do believe if you cannot fit comfortably into one seat you should purchase a second seat as to not make the people around you share their seats. I felt horrible for the man in the window seat of this row. I would have had a panic attack probably... squished up against the window.

This man never apologized for elbowing me and proceeded to read the entire flight with is book almost proped on the back of the seat in front of him..

I hate to travel.. just hate it!

 

[AGBF]

I weight MUCH more than the average so I'd pay much more, but still I feel paying by weight is fair.
I should and could lose weight.

It's not right of me to expect lighter people to pay part of my fare.

Well, since you believe that people vary, I am sure that you believe I am entitled to MY opinion of what you wrote above.

Although I certainly weigh less than 50% of people in the United States, I think it is an abomination that an airline would even contemplate asking me to step on a scale. I am not a piece of meat; I am a paying customer of theirs. I would absolutely never step onto a scale to be weighed by an airline, no matter what the circumstances. And I certainly expect everyone to be charged the same amount for a flight.

AGBF

 

[luv2sparkle]

I would think that this would hurt the airlines business. I can imagine that anyone who had any issues about their weight would avoid them at all costs. Since not airlines have adopted this policy it could really hurt them.

 

[Kelli]

cm366,
I sort of see your point, but just because a young man is African-American does not guarantee he'll be arrested, and just because someone is female doesn't guarantee she will get pregnant. A person weighing more absolutely WILL cost more to fly. It's not a risk, but a certainty. For that reason I don't see how the comparison makes sense.

 

[partgypsy]

I think it's less about weight and more about ability to fit into the seat. I unfortunately sat next to a very large man on a recent flight (I fly about three or four times a month on a regular basis). The gentleman was sitting in the middle seat when I arrived at my seat. The arm rest was up because he was so large it could not go down. He filled the isle in front of him also, so the tray would not go down. It was a short flight and while I had only about half my seat because he was reading and his elbows kept hitting me I tried to find comfort.. just my luck as the door closed some silly light in the cockpit didn't light up. We sat on the plane for an hour on the ground before taking off. My short flight now not so short flight was even more uncomfortable. My back hurt from leaning into the isle. I didn't want to say anytying for the very reason I'm sure it's difficult enough to be so large but to have someone make a big deal about it and that was not what I wanted to do. But with that being said.. I do believe if you cannot fit comfortably into one seat you should purchase a second seat as to not make the people around you share their seats. I felt horrible for the man in the window seat of this row. I would have had a panic attack probably... squished up against the window.

This man never apologized for elbowing me and proceeded to read the entire flight with is book almost proped on the back of the seat in front of him..

I hate to travel.. just hate it!

I was going to post "fair" until I read this. What if people were more likely to not get hired or be fired, because the company would have to pay more for their travel? Then it would be discriminatory.
Now, I'm thinking that the airplane company would assume, for the average person and the average luggage, what the expected fuel cost would be, and that is built into the ticket. But, if people weigh significantly more than that or have additional baggage, they are charged a surcharge separate from the ticket fee. Also (and I'm thinking this will be a relatively rare occurence) if the person cannot actually fit into a normal size seat, they have to purchase 2 tickets, but of course no surcharge because the person wouldn't presumably weigh more than the (average person + luggage they carry on)x2.
But if they charge by exact weight, I mean that's going a little too far, and would be very difficult to implement. Even though I would financially benefit when I am flying with my family, because I have to pay 2 full rate tickets for my two children who weigh little.

 

[FancyDiamond]

I would think that this would hurt the airlines business. I can imagine that anyone who had any issues about their weight would avoid them at all costs. Since not airlines have adopted this policy it could really hurt them.

How the new policy would affect business depends on the country/location in terms of supply/demand. That is, if the airline has a monopoly in the region? If the majority of the population is overweight? etc.

In US, if one single airline adopts the policy but no other airline follows, business may hurt. Still, not everyone is overweight. Not sure most of the passengers who are not overweight will boycott the airline. If I were overweight and had a need to travel at a specific time to a specific location that only this one airline has service, I would have no choice but to pay for the extra fare. The advantage of this policy is that I shall have more incentive to lose weight and stay healthy. My medical bills will drop and I shall gain more quality life.

I have travelled a lot to many countries. In general, I think most Americans are unhealthly overweight. (Hope I do not offend people here.) I was one of them. Until I figured out why (abundance of unhealthy, fatty food and lack of exercise from all the conveniences), I changed my eating habbits and workout lifestyle. Now, I am within normal weight and have lots of energy. I would have been slim and healthy much earlier if every purchase/resource penalizes me for being overweight.

 

[AGBF]

The plane weighs a lot, folks. The airlines are taking you in. Your extra ten pounds means nothing compared to the weight of a huge jet and its fuel. They have you debating the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic. You should be organizing an uprising against them. They really think we are stupid. I like to think I am an intelligent woman. Eleanor Roosevelt flew on a very small military plane during World War II and was allowed only fifteen (15) pound of luggage. (On a tiny plane weight matters more.) She took her typewriter. But nobody weighed her even under those circumstances.

I am not getting on a scale to make a greedy corporation richer as it attempts to pull the wool over the eyes of a bunch of sheep. This is bizarre and also a money-making scam perpetrated by the airlines. Why be complicit in your own undoing?

AGBF

 

[Circe]

I don't know how I feel about the specific example. All I know is that I feel it is unfair when I lose part of my seat because the person beside me needs more room. Why should I suffer when I paid for a full seat?

A real example:
Arm rest is down and the passenger beside me puts it up when he sits down. I proceed to put it down.
Person: "Can we leave it up so I can get a more comfortable ride?"
Me: "I understand but I am sorry. I don't feel comfortable with the arm rest up."
Person: "You are tiny and have so much room."
He then proceeds to sit blocking the arm rest. I am no longer able to lower the arm rest and I am sitting beside the window.

What would you do in this situation?

Call the stewardess, I think - his comfort doesn't trump yours, and I think both people sharing the armrest need to agree for it to be up. If either doesn't feel like it, them's the rules.

 

[kenny]

I weight MUCH more than the average so I'd pay much more, but still I feel paying by weight is fair.
I should and could lose weight.

It's not right of me to expect lighter people to pay part of my fare.

Well, since you believe that people vary, I am sure that you believe I am entitled to MY opinion of what you wrote above.

Although I certainly weigh less than 50% of people in the United States, I think it is an abomination that an airline would even contemplate asking me to step on a scale. I am not a piece of meat; I am a paying customer of theirs. I would absolutely never step onto a scale to be weighed by an airline, no matter what the circumstances. And I certainly expect everyone to be charged the same amount for a flight.

AGBF

You and I are absolutely entitled to our opinions.
Disagreeing is okay.

 

[Laila619]

Pay by kilo for the luggage and carry-on. Pay by seat for the person. If the person is wider than the seat, buy two seats.
It is discriminatory to charge more for one person who is 6ft 200lbs than another person who is 5ft 100lbs. The larger person is being penalized for their genetics. Humans come in all shapes and sizes, and this is just another damn thing to give preference and privilege to a societal ideal 'normal'.
The airline already averages out the fuel costs per seat, this is simply a cash grab by Air Samoa because a great percentage of Samoans are overweight and this pay-by-kilo BS is a way to charge even more per seat.

DITTO.

I'm not overweight by any means, but I'm 5'8" so I'm probably going to weigh more than some tiny woman who is 5'1". Why should I be penalized for that?

 

[kenny]

I've been thinking and need to add something.
I think pricing per pound is fair and reasonable, but it should not go up 100% per pound as with Samoa Airline's policy.
Fuel is just one of many expenses like employee wages, insurance, leases, buying and maintaining jets, etc.
If fuel was the only expense then SA's policy would make sense.

They need a different pricing model that reflects fuel being just one expense.
Let's say hypothetically that fuel accounts for 30% of the $1000 ticket price of the average passenger, who weighs say 200 pounds with bags.
The ticket price for a passenger/bag weighing 400 pounds should not be double; it should be increased only by what the extra fuel costs, which in this hypothetical case is $300.
The airline's other expenses are not increased by carrying heavy passengers, only fuel.

Of course, the key to this controversy is, whether or not airlines take people's feelings into account.
There are a zillion products and services for sale where customers' feelings do not factor into pricing.
A Lexus costs more than a Toyota.
Is that unfair?
Getting a large house painted costs more than painting a small one.
Hurting the feelings of the owner of the large house is not a factor when a painting contractor calculates the quote.
One person may get/need $100,000 in medical care while another gets/needs none.

It is fair that people who get more should pay more.
Why should jet fuel be exempt from the basic and ancient business principle of get more pay more? because people are sensitive about their weight?
Just because an imperfect pricing model used in the past is not an argument to keep it, especially when today's passengers vary in weight more than ever, and jet fuel costs much more.

Bottom line IMHO, people's feelings and equality are always important but in this business case one ticket price for people using varying amounts of jet fuel makes no sense, and all airlines should adopt a pricing model that factors in weight.

 

[kenny]

I'm not overweight by any means, but I'm 5'8" so I'm probably going to weigh more than some tiny woman who is 5'1". Why should I be penalized for that?

Everyone paying for the amount of jet fuel they use is no more penalizing than being charged $100 to fill up an SUV while it costs $30 to fill up a little hybrid.

The SUV owner has no right to get/use more fuel for the same price.

 

[Boatluvr]

I am not small by any sense of the word, but I do believe that very large people, who take up more than their share of room (and are often very rude about it) should have to pay for more space! If they don't fit in a standard seat (yes, they are a bit small) they should be prepared to pay more! I was on a flight (less than one week ago) where a man asked the flight attendant to change his 'premium' seat because he had paid for extra space that he did not have because the woman next to him was taking up half his seat. Really - she had to weigh 300+ - I don't know how she made it down the aisle. The flight attendant, after he went back to his seat, just sort of smirked and said it was a full flight. Greedy airlines are bad - so are greedy people.

I recently flew back from Ireland with someone who put the arm rest up so they had more room and I was squished in my seat. Every time he got up I put down the arm rest and kept my arm on it. When I had to get up - he proceeded to put the arm rest back up. He was well aware that he was taking up more than his fair share of the room. The last time he came back to his seat I had the arm rest down and he literally sat on my arm - I thought he'd broken my elbow! What a PIG!

You would not have to submit to a weigh in - I would be willing to bet that most experienced airline employees could tell at a glance if a customer would need extra space.

BTW, legally - the EEO laws state that discrimination is applicable to Age, Gender or Religion.

 

[kenny]

Actually, the current pricing is unfair.
It penalizes those who, with their bags, are under the average weight.
They are paying more than their share.
Heavier folks/bags currently pay less than their share.

Paying per pound penalizes nobody.
Everyone pays for what they use.

 

[Laila619]

But how would it even work though? You have to go to the airport and get weighed before you buy your ticket? Or is there a standard price you pay upfront, and then you pay an additional amount after you're weighed?

 

[cm366]

Kenny, most business models have some degree of cost-sharing. Restaurants are a great example and they've already been mentioned - gemstones are certainly another! I'd bet that picky PSers who want videos and hand shots or return stone after stone until they've found their 'grail' incur a much higher time and labour cost than the average customer for all but the most expensive stones. Think they'd scream if GOG or OWD started charging by the minute for advice and Idealscopes? For that matter, you're probably more discriminating than many of Leibish's customers - their excellent customer service, which you value so highly, is being subsidized by other purchasers.

All the costs the airline accepts have some degree of variability. If there are strong headwinds on the day you fly, a trip can be extended by 20-30% - that's fuel, wear and tear, salaries, plus costs for missed gate times, sorting out connections, extended maintenance hours, and much more. The airlines don't (yet! I hope they aren't reading my post!) charge a 'weather premium' because this is seen as a cost of doing business. Fuel surcharges and gate taxes set the precedent here, and this is simply another step along that path.

Kelli - the point of statistics is that you can transfer percentage risks to an individual case. Your doctor can tell you that eating bacon and drinking Mountain Dew are bad for your health even though you, personally, may not suffer their ill effects. If you prefer, we could talk about hiring smokers and other addicts (also not protected classes) or the handicapped.

 

[kenny]

But how would it even work though? You have to go to the airport and get weighed before you buy your ticket? Or is there a standard price you pay upfront, and then you pay an additional amount after you're weighed?

I don't know.
Maybe an honor system, but the employees call you out and weigh you if you look more than X pounds heavier.

Maybe these will make a comeback.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I am not sure how I feel about this. I agree it could hurt people emotionally which I tend to want to avoid. However, I do believe if a person cannot put the armrest down they should have to pay for two tickets. Recently I sat next to a very large man on a flight who took 1/3rd of my seat. No joke. I was pissed b/c I was uncomfortable and did pay for every square inch on the seat. I am very nonconfrontational so I did not say anything. I was angry with the flight staff who clearly saw and did not offer any solutions.

 

[MissStepcut]

Actually, the current pricing is unfair.
It penalizes those who, with their bags, are under the average weight.
They are paying more than their share.
Heavier folks/bags currently pay less than their share.

Paying per pound penalizes nobody.
Everyone pays for what they use.

I completely agree with this.

Also, the whole "more likely to commit a crime" analogy holds no water. It's not like predicting who might cost more fuel to fly, it's a matter of finding out exactly how much it WILL cost to fly them.

AGBF, I don't think you're right about the weight of people and what it costs airlines. Your extra 10 lbs x 400 passengers means a lot.

 

[tammy77]

I think it's a ridiculous and humiliating way to get more money out of people. At what point will people wake up and start putting their foot down about all the extra fees that come with flying? We're charged for checked bags now, but 10 years ago that was unheard of. Now airlines are starting to charge for (increasingly smaller) carry on bags. In 3 years are they going to charge me extra for carrying a purse?

I absolutely agree that if someone can't fit in their seat and put the arm rest down, it's an issue that warrants purchasing an extra seat. At that point, we're talking morbidly obese. My DH is a BIG guy and even he can put the arm rest down...and is extremely aware of himself re: not crowding others.

All that aside, what about a pregnant woman or someone that's heavier because they have a physical disability (which is often the case)? That IS discriminatory in my opinion. Ugh, so annoyed.

 

[MissStepcut]

Also, let's remember that airlines keep inventing new fees because they aren't generating enough revenue to pay their expenses. The whole "evil greedy airline" thing doesn't really match reality.

 

[kenny]

I think it's a ridiculous and humiliating way to get more money out of people.

You could also see it as a flattering way to get less money out of people ... those who, with their bags, weigh less than usual.

In principle the airline would make no more money.
They are just changing to a system where each person buys as much fuel as he/she needs.

 

[tammy77]

I think it's a ridiculous and humiliating way to get more money out of people.

You could also see it as a flattering way to get less money out of people ... those who, with their bags, weigh less than usual.

In principle the airline would make no more money.
They are just changing to a system where each person buys as much fuel as he/she needs.

Possibly, but it seems so controversial and borderlines on privacy invasion for a LOT of people, not just the extremes. I don't know many women that would happily hop on a scale in the airport.

Personally, I think they should focus on things like less in-air delays (EDIT: I don't know exactly how much they burn, but it's a lot...anywhere from 1,000-2,000 gallons per hour). Yes, they're losing money but the reason isn't really linked to the width of my butt.

 

[Laila619]

I think it's a ridiculous and humiliating way to get more money out of people. At what point will people wake up and start putting their foot down about all the extra fees that come with flying? We're charged for checked bags now, but 10 years ago that was unheard of. Now airlines are starting to charge for (increasingly smaller) carry on bags. In 3 years are they going to charge me extra for carrying a purse?

I absolutely agree that if someone can't fit in their seat and put the arm rest down, it's an issue that warrants purchasing an extra seat. At that point, we're talking morbidly obese. My DH is a BIG guy and even he can put the arm rest down...and is extremely aware of himself re: not crowding others.

All that aside, what about a pregnant woman or someone that's heavier because they have a physical disability (which is often the case)? That IS discriminatory in my opinion. Ugh, so annoyed.

Yeah, I thought about pregnant ladies too. And in general it'll be discriminatory towards men, because they usually weigh more than women.

 

[MissStepcut]

People who weigh more are consuming more fuel. Is it discriminatory to charge by the hamburger since bigger people need more calories to maintain their weight?

 

[AGBF]

AGBF, I don't think you're right about the weight of people and what it costs airlines. Your extra 10 lbs x 400 passengers means a lot.

Miss Stepcut-

I have to admit that I have not been on a plane since before 9/11. I have no idea what the current trends are-except from what I pick up in the popular press. (What I pick up in the popular press makes me feel that the airlines are continuing the campaign I recall of making services that had already been reduced from comfortable to uncomfortable to positively miserable and sometimes dangerous in an effort to to save money.)

I do have a bit of an insider's view of the airline industry because my husband started his career as a financial analyst for American Airlines back when their corporate HQ was in New York City. The airlines often flew half empty planes in those days. They certainly weren't weighing passengers. The seats got smaller and smaller and more and more crowded together so that people had to worry about getting blood clots on long flights. Conditions became ridiculous. I don't have to convince you, or anyone else, about what the airlines are doing...but I have watched it happen. Do you think the top officers of the airline companies are nickel and diming themselves the way they want to nickel and dime the passengers?

Wouldn't a few million less in profits to them allow passengers to have more leg room? To fly without being weighed? I think that they want us to drink the Kool Aid and say, "Oh my! The problem is my fellow passenger over there who is overweight!" and not notice that they are sitting on piles and piles of our money!

AGBF

 

[Circe]

People who weigh more are consuming more fuel. Is it discriminatory to charge by the hamburger since bigger people need more calories to maintain their weight?

It's not discriminatory on the face of it ... But it guarantees that men will generally pay more than women, that people from fine-boned nationalities will pay less than people from cultures that encourage heftier diets, and that people from lower socioeconomic classes who already have a hard enough time eating healthily - see, food deserts - will face even greater hurdles when it comes to traveling.

I don't root for the strict meritocracy, much though I might like it on an individual level (loathe stupidity and incompetence, admit unfair socioeconomic conditions affect both, and am unwilling to banish the unfortunate to the Island of Misfit Toys). On the same principle, I really can't root for this, even if it did lower my ticket price a titch.