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Is a preowned 10yo HOF diamond ok? Need to decide Thx

L

lrning

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
45
Hi Everyone,

I need helping a decision about purchasing 0.77 round Hearts on Fire (HOF) diamond ring. The ring's report is from 2001. So the diamond is older and I wondered if this was a good deal at $2400.00.

I will list the stats below, but I am concerned about the color i, and clarity S1. Please assist. I've learned here so far that if it is well cut, like HOF that I shouldn't worry so much about clarity or color i.

Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.92 - 5.96 x 3.63 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Proportions: Ideal
Color Grade: AGS 2.0 (H)
Clarity Grade: AGS 5 (SI1)
Carat Weight: 0.770
Fluorescence: Inert

Table: 55.0%
Crown Angle: 35.0
Crown Height: 15.7%
Girdle: Faceted, 1.0% to 1.4%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Pavilion Depth: 42.9%
Total Depth: 61.1%
Culet: Pointed


Thank you,
J
 
Needs to be examined for any wear.

Price is below Internet prices of ideal cuts. Do you want to give up an upgrade policy for the HOF brand?
 
I agree with Julie that it is a good buy only if you are able to have the stone examined by a jeweler or appraiser for any damage to the stone. They can and do chip, so you need someone to verify it's condition.
 
Good price if the stone is undamaged.Be sure the report matches the stone,and look for the HoF logo inscribed on the girdle.
 
Hi,
Hmmmm..you guys are making great points! Is this a real value relatively speaking given the cut quality?
Do I really have to worry that it is an Si1? Are the proportions truly idealcomapeed to the newer innovative cits of Brian Gavin Blue and or A Cut Above? Since its 10 yo must I be concerned with the aging or longevity of the stone? Besides wear. I was under the impression diamonds may shoe age and yellow over time a bit? I know I may sound silly but I don't know a lot about diamonds and you guys are my trusted experts. Happy Friday and Happy Mother`s Day!
Thanks!
 
Sorry about those typos my cell keypad sometimes gets stuck.
 
lrning|1368191138|3444031 said:
Hi,
Hmmmm..you guys are making great points! Is this a real value relatively speaking given the cut quality?
Do I really have to worry that it is an Si1? Are the proportions truly idealcomapeed to the newer innovative cits of Brian Gavin Blue and or A Cut Above? Since its 10 yo must I be concerned with the aging or longevity of the stone? Besides wear. I was under the impression diamonds may shoe age and yellow over time a bit? I know I may sound silly but I don't know a lot about diamonds and you guys are my trusted experts. Happy Friday and Happy Mother`s Day!
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Not if it is real.. :bigsmile:
 
Have it checked by an appraiser for damage and to make sure its the stone on the certificate. Could be a good deal.
 
What is the date on the grading report?
I don't beleive they had DQD back in 2001.
 
lrning|1368191138|3444031 said:
Hi,
Hmmmm..you guys are making great points! Is this a real value relatively speaking given the cut quality?
Do I really have to worry that it is an Si1? Are the proportions truly idealcomapeed to the newer innovative cits of Brian Gavin Blue and or A Cut Above? Since its 10 yo must I be concerned with the aging or longevity of the stone? Besides wear. I was under the impression diamonds may shoe age and yellow over time a bit? I know I may sound silly but I don't know a lot about diamonds and you guys are my trusted experts. Happy Friday and Happy Mother`s Day!
Thanks!
Click to expand...

A month or so ago a jeweler showed me a 0.70 I SI1 HOF, and she tried to justify its $6500 price tag, saying it still had last years price (it increased this year apparently), so in that sense it's a good deal (provided no damage) if you care about branding. It's like if someone was selling a Cartier/Tiffany ideal stone. It's still a diamond, but people seem to place more value in the brand. I believe that HOF is comparable to the ideals from WF/BGD/GOG, and it's below their pricing as well.

If a diamond yellows over time...well, it's not a diamond. It's survived millions of years, I'm sure it can outlive us a few more times over :lol:
 
I am not so.much interested in the HoF brand as I am interested in a good value for a decent size and observable brilliance and fire. Do you think that is what I will get with these specs?
 
What is dqd diamond quality report? It is AGSL certified Dec 2001. Is this reliable DAT? And are the cut specs up yo the standards for ideal cut today comparable to Brian Gavin or ACA? Is Si1 inclusion OK? Vendor says its eye clean perhaps ill post the mp inclusion map later for opinions.Thanks in advance for all input.
 
Oops sorry didn't see the response about BGD or ACA. Given its ten years old though has ideal cutting standards changed with current technology and AGSLs new Platinum light performance testing? This has a standard AGSl with just the specs how do I determine they will give good scintillation BC like I mentioned I'm not going to just say its a HOf and take their word for it. Ididnt even know who they were until I learned about cut as up most importance here. Any feedback is welcome. TIA
 
Post the depth, table size, crown and pavilion angles.

You can run the numbers through the HCA...

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Edit --- nevermind...I see you already posted the numbers.
 
I plugged in details for HCA. Interesting never heard of this before. I got a score of 1.5 which stated was excellent within TIC. I guess that sounds like good news, but as you can see above I didn't have data to plug in for cutlet so I hope this is accurate. Does this mean the Si1 clarity is neglible? Are there any grounds or specific details I can use to bargain or lower the price and by how much?thanks.
 
You can always offer less and see what happens.

The key here is going to be ensuring that the diamond is not damaged in any way - chips, nicks, or other damage that would negatively affect its clarity grade. Other than that, there is no risk in buying an older diamond.
 
Dreamer_D|1368237944|3444631 said:
You can always offer less and see what happens.

The key here is going to be ensuring that the diamond is not damaged in any way - chips, nicks, or other damage that would negatively affect its clarity grade. Other than that, there is no risk in buying an older diamond.
Click to expand...
Yup, I wouldn't mind paying $2400 for this stone.
 
Get an independent appraiser to look at the ring. That's the best way to give yourself assurance.
 
Great point! I will make sure to ensure that it get an inspection.

A selling point that was mentioned by the vendor was the fact that HoF onluy uses less than 1% of diamonds. Therefore, its a the best of the vest stones.Is there any significance/credibility to this statement given it is an Si1 color.

Cant you just take any diamond ( given it has decent color within near colorless range with an eye clean look) and do a super ideal cut and have something comparable? What can I say or argue about that and its clarity grade to convince to lower the price since I would not have an upgrade or maintenance plan with it.

It is set in a 14k white gold plain settin not HoF with the little diamond. Could this be a sign it wasn't bought at a HoF retailer and that it was not bought brand new. I think the HoF ring should be the setting if it was voughtnoriginal right?
Also, does HoF provide any other certificates of authenticity?

This person only has the AGS certification from 2001. Its not the new platinum with light performance grading?
If I wanted to sell this later would the lack of this HoF certificate make it harder to get a good price in case I want to sell to upgrade?

I know I've been asking a lot, but only because I'm learning a lot here. At this point I need more advice or pointers for how to get a price break given its specks on color and hofs marketing 1% thing and lack of authenticity certificate and hof setting ( ring). Are these valid points.
Can I really break down HoFs less than 1/10 of 1% of diamonds are HoF diamonds given its si1?
Thank you all for your time.
J
 
Eek those typos from my little cell screen. Sorry.
 
The top 1% marketing bit is really just that. Marketing. I believe if you look at Blue Niles signature collection, they say something very similar, if not exactly that. Other vendors say that only 1 out of 10 (made up number) of all GIA Excellent grades make it in their branded stones. It's like when HoF says their stones are the most perfectly cut diamond. That's not a statement, and cannot even be considered a fact. It's a registered trademark

In the grand scheme of things, there are a lot of diamonds out there, and therefore a lot of top 1% stones, if that makes sense
 
You're right when you say you can take a super ideal cut diamond and it'll be the same as HoF, but you'll have a really hard time getting the sales associates to agree, and even harder to get a discount.

I'll compare it to Tiffanys. To my knowledge, they don't haggle or discount their diamonds, even though there's nothing special about their stones. But they spent an incredible amount of money marketing themselves as the best. What would they say if you tried to haggle? "We're Tiffanys, so we're better". HoF would just say "but ours are the world's most perfectly cut diamond". I've heard the sales pitch a few times already
 
Good points I am working with a person not s brick and mortar store. What can I say to break those marketing things? Isn't any other AGS triple 0 similar, and don't they have a grade for light performance on platinum certificate? Do you think given the specs this diamond would get a quadruple 0000 a grade 0 on their light performance today? How special could it be at 1% if it is an Si 1 is that the worst of higher end branded diamonds? Thanks again.
 
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10646/
^ There is a comp .77ct H SI1, unbranded "generic" H&A
Width: 5.91mm
Length: 5.88mm
Depth: 3.64mm
Table Percentage: 56.00%
Depth Percentage: 61.70%
Price: $3,649 (Bank wire price: $3,526)

The one you are looking at is already priced $1126 lower, 68% of the GOG diamond, plus it's already in some type of mounting that you cam either use or resell. Having an upgrade policy may or may not be worth anything, because diamond prices have been rising lately. The consensus of a recent PS discussion said that unless you plan to upgrade within a year or two, you are better off to try to buy at lowest price and forget about the upgrade/trade-in allowance.

If you have it appraised by an appraiser who has an ASET scope and a H&A viewer, then that will answer your questions about performance & how it compares to today's. H is near colorless and will face up very white unless there's some prob like has yellow fluor. SI1 is a very respectable clarity. Crafted by Infinity goes down to I1, and Good Old Gold sells I1, as well.

All that seller has to do is sit on that stone until the right cash buyer comes along. I could write a check or pull $2400 out of my pants pocket today and be done with it. You've been mulling it over for at least 3 days. How much more discounted does it have to be, for you?

Personally, if I were selling, I'd get an ASET image on it and fresh appraisal from a big name, and I'd not budge from the $2400. Might even raise the price a bit if I had all-current documentation on its.
 
All HOF are ideal cut hearts and arrows stone. If undamaged, it's a steal and I'd snatch it up before anyone else can!
 
alma123|1368315420|3445150 said:
All HOF are ideal cut hearts and arrows stone. If undamaged, it's a steal and I'd snatch it up before anyone else can!
Click to expand...
Sort of. The AGS rules for what is ideal and what isn't changed significantly in 2005. It was graded in 2001, and it was ideal then, but it may or may not now. The way to know for sure, assuming it's important to you, is to send it back to the lab. FWIW I don't see any red flags in what you've posted.
 
lrning|1368303957|3445029 said:
Good points I am working with a person not s brick and mortar store. What can I say to break those marketing things? Isn't any other AGS triple 0 similar, and don't they have a grade for light performance on platinum certificate? Do you think given the specs this diamond would get a quadruple 0000 a grade 0 on their light performance today? How special could it be at 1% if it is an Si 1 is that the worst of higher end branded diamonds? Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Your seller is going to get as much as they can, and if that's not from you they may decide to let you walk and try to sell it to someone else. That's the way it works. They're pitching the HoF branding. I largely agree with the above comments about marketing and brand names but I don't count it as all that bad. HoF is a fine company and they make fine products. They make no claim that they're the ONLY company that makes fine products. Their brand is an assurance that their products meet their standards. Whether or not you put value in their assurance is up to you but no, they are not the only place to get 'top 1%' goods, whatever that means. I equate this to BMW's claim that they make 'the ultimate driving machine'. I haven't a clue what that means, and I doubt it would hold up to serious scrutiny, but they DO make fine cars.

Incidentally, the bottom 90% of mined diamonds are industrial. They can be found in drill bits, abrasives and other uses outside of the gem business.
 
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