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abbott

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
173
Can someone advise me if a diamond is a good long term investment?? At this time it can be very risky to invest in the stock market. We have had good luck with art, but I really want to buy a large quality stone (3.5 - 5ct.) But I just don''t know if it would be a safe investment. I''m expecting to spend alot of money.. and if I wanted to sell in 10 years, what could I expect?
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Hi Abbott,
My advice to you is buy Natural colored diamond.
Right now you can get a pretty good deal on large "canary" yellow colored diamonds and they are gorgeous, and the prices are still resonable.
As the economy picks up the prices are expected to rize again,... As they quadruled in value durring the last 4 years. The Intense green yellow is also stunning and I see a future there.
The prices of Colorless diamonds are pretty much controled by the idustry and the return is rather poor,... 5-7%/ year you would loose some of the "gain" when you sell,...

Oh,... If you buy for investment pourpose,... Never buy from retailer or on line "wholesaler",...
Best
George
GLE Gem Imports
 

abbott

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
173
Good advise, but if I don't buy retail or on line wholesaler..who do I buy from??? Thanks!! Any advise on "canary diamonds" what to look for and what to avoid?? Do you still concentrate on the "c's" and angles, and everything you would when buying a colorless diamond???
 

jetcaptain

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Messages
72
----------------
On 1/24/2003 10:36:47 AM lacina wrote:

Hi Abbott,
My advice to you is buy Natural colored diamond.
Right now you can get a pretty good deal on large "canary" yellow colored diamonds and they are gorgeous, and the prices are still resonable.
As the economy picks up the prices are expected to rize again,... As they quadruled in value durring the last 4 years. The Intense green yellow is also stunning and I see a future there.
The prices of Colorless diamonds are pretty much controled by the idustry and the return is rather poor,... 5-7%/ year you would loose some of the "gain" when you sell,...

Oh,... If you buy for investment pourpose,... Never buy from retailer or on line "wholesaler",...
Best
George
GLE Gem Imports






----------------
George,

I don't suppose that you sell natural colored diamonds, do you?
 

diamondsman

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Messages
648
Hi
Diamonds should not be looked at as an investment to make money on.you have to buy them for your enjoyment and for the beauty and the brilliance of it.The prices fluctuate and there is no guarantee,that you will be able to make money.

just my 2 cents
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Hi Jetcaptain,
You got it! I am the colored diamond and sapphire man!
However, I NEVER said Abbott should buy from me,...

I know there are rules on this forum and I can not be promoting my services. I only stated that IF anybody wants to make an investment in diamond it has to be Natural fancy colored diamond. Why? Diamondsman is right, white diamond prices do fluctuate,... I know very few people who was happy with a white diamond as an investment. Why? They are too many of them and the prices are discounted according to the buyers market.
Colored diamonds are allways subject to sellers market. Fancy yellows are gorgeous and still affordable in comparasement to colorless or pink, green reds or blues witch are virtually priceless,... The affordability of Yellows will not last forever,... You can still get Facy Yellow 5 carat honker from $25 000 to $250 000 depending on intensity and purity of color.
Never buy diamonds with brownish hues no matter how clean and large they are,... All stones should have GIA reports for at least a color.

George
GLE Gem imports
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Sorry Abbott,
I didn't answer your question,...
When choosing natural colored diamond the major value is in color purity and intensity. Cut quality, clarity and shape is also important. The bad news is,.. They rarely come in round brilliant cuts. Why? The natural colored rough is expensive and the cutter needs to maximize the yield. The colored rough is mostly found in octahedrons. The shape looks like two pyramids glued together joining at the base. The cutter cuts them apart and now he has two pyramids of rough,... This is why
you will often see Princess, Radiant, or Emerald cuts. Ovals, Rounds are less common but sometimes available...
The most beautiful cut for Canary yellow diamond is in my opinion the radiant. The same proportions of cut apply as to colorless diamonds.

Should you have more questions do not hesitate to ask
Best
George
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,274
Hi abbot,

Longterm investment wise it is not a good idea to put your money into one larger rock of excellent quality. Why? Because it is not something that is in high demand and is not something that you can move so quickly. My advice would be to take that money (if you were to put it into diamonds) and seek to purchase stones that are ALWAYS in high demand. Those are commonly diamonds in the 1ct range, I color and higher and VS2 clarity and higher and with the current education wave and the research being published by GIA ... I'd keep a keen eye on what's being published and what's being moved and what's not.

No offense George... I LOVE fancy colored diamonds and we have a few in our stock but to say they are in high demand and fast movers ... well ... we've been sitting on ours for years, even willing to sell them for near cost just to get our $$$ back out of them. I couldn't honestly recommend them for an investment but perhaps if you KNOW fancy colors that are indeed fast movers and can help the person sell them fast and make a profit, I admit I do not know the fancy colored diamond market. I can only go by the calls we get for fancy colors and they are far and few. People who invest like to be able to sell fast what it is they have invested in when they are ready to sell (I would think).

Email me George and perhaps we can work with each other when I do get calls for fancy colors if you are a wholesaler. If you are a retailer then disregard.

Kind regards,
Rhino
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,637
Over 20 years 1ct D IF has fallen 10%.
H VS2 has risen 100% and in my opinion F G SI - VS will still do better than any other grouping.

Neither were good investments. But if there was a nasty war then the diamonds can save your life where the money in shares can go south. That is why gold is doing well.

Color is all about supply and demand.
Someone said do not buy a diamond with brown in it. Well the source of 80% of brownish goods will dry up over the next decade, so that advice could be wrong too


If you buy a diamond then your primary problem is liquidity. The grouping in 1-2 ct stones would be my selection, but even though I can buy and sell better than you - I do not buy for "investment"
 

jetcaptain

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Messages
72
----------------
On 1/25/2003 12:22:47 AM lacina wrote:

Hi Jetcaptain,
You got it! I am the colored diamond and sapphire man!
However, I NEVER said Abbott should buy from me,...

I know there are rules on this forum and I can not be promoting my services. I only stated that IF anybody wants to make an investment in diamond it has to be Natural fancy colored diamond. Why? Diamondsman is right, white diamond prices do fluctuate,... I know very few people who was happy with a white diamond as an investment. Why? They are too many of them and the prices are discounted according to the buyers market.
Colored diamonds are allways subject to sellers market. Fancy yellows are gorgeous and still affordable in comparasement to colorless or pink, green reds or blues witch are virtually priceless,... The affordability of Yellows will not last forever,... You can still get Facy Yellow 5 carat honker from $25 000 to $250 000 depending on intensity and purity of color.
Never buy diamonds with brownish hues no matter how clean and large they are,... All stones should have GIA reports for at least a color.

George
GLE Gem imports


----------------
George,

I simply asked if you sold natural colored diamonds. I never accused you of any impropriety. That's your conscience doing that.
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Hi Jetcaptain,
I was just trying to give an advice that I know is right. Someone said that the supply of Brownish diamonds will dry out,.. I know this is not likely going to happen perhaps gem quality brownish diamonds are hard to find but I would still not reccommend buying them. The fact is that pure yellows are getting rare,... Green is very hard to find and the rest is even harder.

Rhino,
It is not unusual for you not to be able to move fancy colored diamonds,..
Why? The market is very different. You seem to be specialized on colorless and doing a great job selling them. Fancy colors require taking a different avenues in marketing. I can understand it would be hard for you to concentrate on Fancy colors. I would like to find out what you have available,...
Best
George
 

MDE

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
7
Lucina Wrote

Oh,... If you buy for investment pourpose,... Never buy from retailer or on line "wholesaler",...

I have recently had an excellent experience purchasing a very rare 1crt D. Flawless from an Australian online wholesaler.

The expertise and professionalism was far superior to the retail stores I visited

When I tried to discuss cut proportion at the retail store I just got a blank stare. When I spoke about the HCA and ideal scope they looked at me like I was from another planet

The online vendor on the other hand went to great lengths to convince me that proportion is the most important consideration.

In fact I now recommend to friend and family if you want to buy expensive low value for money ordinary diamonds go to a retail store, If you are looking for superior technical knowledge, a high quality stone at a good price, find it on the net.

I am now looking at a 0.50 radiant cut purple pink (pp3) from the same vendor

Harry
 

abbott

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
173
Harry, What is the web site where your purchased your stone?
Thanks.. Abbott
 

optimized

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
306
harrytap,

I'd just like to make a small semantic note and say that if you bought a single diamond from a source, then by definition the dealer isn't really a "wholesaler" per se. A lot of dealers claim to be wholesalers (to make customers feel like they're getting an exceptional deal on an item by not paying "retail"), but the fact is wholesalers in any industry typically deal in larger quantities to the trade within that industry. That doesn't mean there aren't dealers that sell diamonds at "near wholesale prices," it just means that going by semantics they aren't really wholesalers in the strictest sense.

Having said all that, I'd be interested in knowing who you're having such nice experiences with. If you're not affiliated with them, there's no rule in the forums against spreading the word.


-Tim
 

MDE

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
7
Sorry Optimized

Perhaps I used the wrong expression. The vendor never claimed to be a Wholesaler.

Sorry about that.

They have offices in Sydney and Melbourne but do most of there marketing on the net.

The company is Melbourne Diamond Exchange, www.diamondexchange.com.au
 

diamondsman

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Messages
648
Hi lacina
How big is that stone?What does the cert. read as far as color is concerened?

how much is it?(do you want to sell it?)I might be interested!!

diamondsman
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Hi Harrytap It's Lacina not Lucina,...

I am glad you are happy with your purchase, however the point of toppic was
"buying for investment". If you are expecting to invest substantial ammount of money. You have the luxury to buy wrom true wholesaler . Large stock holding company that will not even cosider to sell one 1 carat or 1/2 carat stone,... they will direct you to their accounts a different level of "wholesale". You will be expected to pay regular price. BUT if you are looking for a 4-5carat fancy colored diamond the game can be absolutely different,.. The Stock holder can actually give you 15 minutes of his time.
Prifessionalism? You better know what you want!,... Then you are a true Investor,... Of course, they are people who buy their "investments" from Cartier ,... I would say they are proffessional and honest don't you?
If they were dishonest they will never make their millions!...
This is my $0.02,...
Glad you are buying your Purplish pink I have attached enlarged picture of Natural Intense Purplish Pink 1.38carat with GIA report.
Purplish pink is the most desirable investment stone and if you can get in size over 1carat, you have a true treasure,...
This gentleman didn't know weather he should buy condo in Mexico or this diamond
he has decided to buy the diamond instead,... Guess what,... He has resold it in few weeks to someone in hollywood for very healty profit. Now he can have a two condos instead of one!
Happy Investments!
George
GLE Gem Imports
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
It's interesting the different diamonds that dealers recommend regarding the "investment" aspect.

I see merit in each dealer's suggestions. 1 carat, 2 carat, fancies, non-fancies. It shows the familiarities that each dealer has with a particular segment of the market.

Take the Sarasota area for example (my home turf). Here a 3 carat is more liquid than a 1 carat. 1 carat's are a dime a dozen, while a sexy 3 carat stands out from the crowd.

George is right about the investment potential in fancy color diamonds. The appreciation for fancies has been nothing short of phenomenal. In my opinion, they have been racing to catch up with their intrinsic value with regards to their rarity and beauty. Kind of like how the fine Chinese saltwater cultured pearls have been racing in their climb towards the stature of Japanese saltwater cultured pearls.

My advice regarding the "investment" aspect of a fine diamond (or colored stone for that matter) would be in the 3, 5, or 7 carat range. These sizes appeal to a segment of the population which tend to have money in good times or bad. In diamonds, I color or better, SI1 or better, with the finest cut you can find. Recutting is always an option too, if you find a "fair" cut at a real bargain.

George's advice regarding the hue of fancy colors is dead on, as well as the radiant cut being the fancy color cut-of-choice.

In colored stones, go for fine to gem quality color, in eyecleanish stones or better. Ruby and sapphire is the way to go. There's a glut of emeralds on the market. Go for stones with documentable countries of origin from Burma, Sri Lanka, Madagascar or Cambodia. If you happen to run across a Kashmir sapphire at a "bargain", grab it. It might not alwasy be cost effective to buy a non-heat treated ruby or sapphire, but if you can afford it and the stone looks good, so much the better.

I for one am a strong believer in the investment aspect of fine diamonds and colored stones. You just have to be smart, savvy and educated in both the buying and selling. If you're not, then you need a good advisor who is.
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Hi Diamondsman, My text wasn't attaced to the picture it is . Actually it was 1.38ct GIA intense purplish pink. It is sold now, but I can check the stock see what is available. I believe there is a smaller "Sister" to this stone. Please contact me privately. I have few Trully rare pieces the prices are in My opinion resonable but high,..
Well how can you put a pricetag on priceless diamond,.. Right?
George
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Another sold item for your eyes only, GIA Fancy VIVId yellow 5.10carat
This diamond was so beautiful I almost cryed to let it go,...
You may need to click on the attachment to open the file
I am still learning to enlarge my picture files to suit the format of this page
George

Resize of Resize of 510vivf.jpg
 

diamondsman

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Messages
648
I agree with richard, I also think that if you were to buy diamonds for investment they should not be less than 3 carats as the larger sizes are more appealing on a resale .
But take my advise don't think of diamonds as an investment!!!
i have been in the diamond business when diamonds plummeted where people lost their shirts and have not recovered since , this was way back in the 80's.
It is just too risky.

Lacina
Don't cry for that stone I have plenty more to offer you in the fancy yellow intense if you are interested!! the purpelish pink is a rare stone you should have cried on that one!! lol

 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
abbott;

I would recommend you stay away from diamonds(all kinds)
and invest your money elsewhere.

Since you do not have a direct connection to the trade
and the nuances and nitty gritty of buy and sell
are not in your lexicon,
your liquidity and return will be determined by the
trade buyer who will offer you a price far below
the stones' current market value at time of sale offering.
Your stones appreciation will have to be very considerable
to withstand that. Not likely.

Invest in markets in which you have knowledge and
experience. Like Art, where you say you have done well.
It puts you more in the drivers seat.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Diamondsman,
You need to understand my jokes. I never cry selling a diamond,..
True this one was beautiful The cut was awesome!
If you say that Vivid yellow is not rare how many you have in 5catat size?
The last time I checked the availability of GIA certed Vivid yellows I was very dissapointed ,... There was 1 in $100 000 000 stock pile of cut diamonds Pink? Purplish pink? If you are serious provide me with your number and I will call you on Monday
Best
George
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Hi Barry,
Your advice sounds very honest,... I think Abbott should listen to it.
However The liquidity would depend on how you buy and what you buy,...
I know few collectors and investors that are doing great! You are right,
You need to buy so there is never a problem with liquidity.
Diversify, don't buy one expensive rock that will tie up all of your cash.
Think about Insurance costs and security,...
George
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
lacina;

My point, exactly. Abbott's liquidity (and profit) depends
absolutely on what she buys and how she buys.

To buy well with expectation of profit you need
either a personal in-depth knowledge of the markets
or a trusted trade advisor that will serve as your direct agent and liason; neither of which abbott currently
possesses. Hence my advice to her to stick with
investments that she has experience and knowledge.
If she will first "invest" the time and effort in gaining knowledge of our market, that is of course another story
and commendable.

diamondsman earlier mentioned the diamond "crash" of
'79-'80 and the "bren" that led up to it; I remember it very, very well. There are still some non-trade 'survivors' that are walking around with less than their 'shirts' (think Hanes & Jockey). I believe we in the trade need to be extremely careful with our advice to the public regarding the "investing" of their hard-earned money in our product.

Best,

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

lacina

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
146
Hi Barry,

I agree,...
The think is that the world of investments is in true turmoil right now, look at the stock market or real estate in some areas,... I would not discourage a buyer from buying an investment grade gem since it sounds to me like a ok thing to do at this time,... I am not an Investment advisor, however my common sence is telling me if I want to make a trully enjoyable investment, It may as well be nice piece of jewelry...
I think we are doing a great job here on this Forum to tell abbott our experiences of the markets being up and down like a toilet seat,... But This applies to all investments. The Long term, she is talking ablout still looks bright for any rare gems don't you agree? Does anyone remenber that Calibrated color set of 1ct diamonds was selling for $2000?
George
 

diamondjane

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 24, 2003
Messages
30
George,

If you don't buy from a retailer or on line wholesaler, who do you buy from if it's for an engagement ring?

 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 1/25/2003 9:35:30 PM Richard Sherwood wrote:

1 carat's are a dime a dozen, while a sexy 3 carat stands out from the crowd.

My advice regarding the "investment" aspect of a fine diamond (or colored stone for that matter) would be in the 3, 5, or 7 carat range. These sizes appeal to a segment of the population which tend to have money in good times or bad. In diamonds, I color or better, SI1 or better, with the finest cut you can find. Recutting is always an option too, if you find a "fair" cut at a real bargain.

----------------
So, a sexy women wearing a sexy 3 c stone will *really* stand out.


You are dead on on your last statement. Monied people (the very wealthy) will always have money to spend. In current times, like slow economy's in the past, low end sells & the very high end sells. It is the middle market that suffers. The sunny side in my business (Art & Antique)is that the middle market is often offered at lower prices. The fact that my merch. is not made anymore - it's is an opportunity to buy such merch & put away for the future ecomonic upturn.

All that said, as I have said before, at least diamonds have "staying power". But, to invest in diamonds without being on the "inside" is not prudent. The only area I see possible to make money on stones is to buy from estate lawyers.
 

diamondsman

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Messages
648
Hi lacina
I understood your joke that is why I wrote the "lol" it means: laugh on line.
if you are really interested in fancy yellows there are more of them available than pinks!!! If you give me an -email i will send you a list of fancy yellows in the 3.00-8.00cts.
Maybe we we'll do business yet. that would be nice.

best regards
diamondsman
p.s
barry was right it is a very delicate situation on advising a person to invest as you could be the one to be blamed if it "crashes.
 
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