gregchang35
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2012
- Messages
- 3,416
HopeDream|1349319339|3279049 said:Ah! Thats a very different question!
Currently I`m enjoying my engagement diamond with plans to upgrade eventually.
I`d like to own some old cuts one day, and a lovely purple or blue FCD.
Any of my diamonds are / would be set so I can wear and enjoy them.
HopeDream|1349322841|3279077 said:Yes those are generally your options, although once in a blue moon, if you have a stone that is well cut and meets the vendor's selection criteria they make take it on consignment or accept it for trade in (This almost neve happens but you can always ask).
The challenge for a vendor is tying up money in inventory that may not sell, so if your stone is un-papered or isn't quite up to PS precision cut standards don't expect to be able to do a trade-in.
I believe Jewels by Erica Grace also accepts consignments (and probably others too), so if you wanted someone else to handle a sale for you, you do have that option.
Paul-Antwerp|1349345221|3279148 said:As a cutter, I do not think of it that way, but I am definitely investing in diamonds. Simplifying the business-model, I am buying diamonds counting on selling them for a higher price later on. I would think that this is the classic definition of investing.
Theoretically you're correct but investors have no easy access to either buy or sell rough diamonds. They also have no good way of evaluating the goods. It's actually worse than with polished in this regard. They are 100% reliant on the vendor and the buyer. This is an extremely awkward position and it's packed with potential perils. As with the above, if they have the talent and connections to do it and/or have partners who do, it's possible to make money here but the investment is in the business venture, not the merchandise. Is a particular diamond venture a good investment? Maybe? Some surely are and some surely aren't. The evaluation is about the management team, the business model, the competition and a list of other things that are most definitely NOT gemological properties.Paul-Antwerp|1349443723|3279859 said:Neil,
When you highlight 'fashion-aspects' as a reason for potential depreciation of certain diamonds, you are mainly talking about attributes of polished diamonds. I think that you are right that the fact of a specific shape or cut going in or out of fashion might well have a negative effect on the future value.
On that basis, rough diamonds in general carry much less of such 'fashion-risk', and they probably are, for a knowledgeable person in the matter, a far better investment-vehicle.
Live long,
Not all that different than dealers offering buyback and upgrade policies on diamonds.Paul-Antwerp|1349788491|3282108 said:Now, in cars, this can only work for a limited period of time, since the usage of a car and time depreciates them. With diamonds however, as long as they are not damaged, once they are re-papered by the lab, they are brand-new again. In theory, that would make such a Mercedes-like approach possible.
Live long,
This is interesting. So in your opinion, the NNC program depresses the market for used Benz's by people other than Mercedes dealerships selling relatively new cars? I can see how the publicists would spin the statistics on this but it sounds like it's actually having the opposite effect for the majority of customers.Paul-Antwerp|1349788491|3282108 said:On the parallel market, young Mercedes-cars are frowned upon, because of the question-marks attached to not having a warranty, nor a check by Mercedes themselves and the big question why this car was not NNC-worthy. ,
Karl_K|1349797230|3282191 said:Not all that different than dealers offering buyback and upgrade policies on diamonds.Paul-Antwerp|1349788491|3282108 said:Now, in cars, this can only work for a limited period of time, since the usage of a car and time depreciates them. With diamonds however, as long as they are not damaged, once they are re-papered by the lab, they are brand-new again. In theory, that would make such a Mercedes-like approach possible.
Live long,
It sets a min. price the consumer will look for in the secondary market.
This can and does have the effect of keeping the resale value higher when prices are stable.
This helps drive business back to the dealer.
In general the lack of a healthy secondary market for diamonds kills any possibility of a healthy investment environment growing around them.
denverappraiser|1349808150|3282303 said:This is interesting. So in your opinion, the NNC program depresses the market for used Benz's by people other than Mercedes dealerships selling relatively new cars? I can see how the publicists would spin the statistics on this but it sounds like it's actually having the opposite effect for the majority of customers.Paul-Antwerp|1349788491|3282108 said:On the parallel market, young Mercedes-cars are frowned upon, because of the question-marks attached to not having a warranty, nor a check by Mercedes themselves and the big question why this car was not NNC-worthy. ,
Almost is true, but I do see it come up on deals between PS consumers where the buyback sets the min. price.Paul-Antwerp|1349958422|3283204 said:- A buyback-policy however is an unconditional guarantee, and checking most vendors active on PS, I see almost no such policies, unlimited in time.
To be honest Paul I am really uncomfortable using the term investment when it comes to diamonds.Paul-Antwerp|1350384507|3286264 said:Thank you for checking this and presenting the overview, Karl. I see three major differences:
- in which diamonds apply for a buyback,
- in percentages compared to sales-price,
- in time-limitations.
Given these differences, and noting that you agree that such buybacks set a minimum-level on the resale-price, isn't this a major factor in the 'investment-aspect' of a consumer's purchase?
Live long,
The perception of long term value does make it easier for many people to buy them.Paul-Antwerp|1350464033|3286905 said:In the purchase of a diamond, if one would compare a well-cut diamond to a well-cut CZ, differences in looks and 'performance' are minimal. There must be a reason why so many consumers are willing to pay 1000-fold for the diamond. Romantics would argue that it is because of diamond being a natural product, but in the end, I think that it is because there is a perception of long-term value in diamonds.
Yourself and stocking dealers are both betting they will hold value. Historically that has been a safe bet with a few exceptions but it is still a bet.Paul-Antwerp|1350464033|3286905 said:In this, the trade is using and avoiding that aspect of the diamond-purchase at the same time. We all love to hint at long-term-value of diamonds in general, and basically depend on it. If I did not believe that a certain weight-color-clarity will have x basic value in the year from now, how could I take the risk of purchasing diamonds in order to be cut and commercialized in the weeks and months to come?
There is a lot of truth to that.Paul-Antwerp|1350464033|3286905 said:At the same time, the trade is avoiding the matter when it comes down to individual diamonds. The popularity of loose certs is a classic example, as the loose cert gives the impression of a huge underlying value (carat weight, color and clarity) for a relatively cheap price. If one does not acknowledge the investment-aspect of a diamond-purchase, one cannot truly explain to a consumer that they are getting a bad deal. Explaining that color and clarity of said lab cannot be trusted often does not convince the consumer, as the diamond still looks good to his eyes and he has a so-called grade on paper, while the 'savings' can run up to 25% or more. The key to solving this is to make the investment-aspect a conscious part of the decision, not the currently unconscious one.