interesting...diamond came with a GIA instead of AGS report

[davenb]

I thought the forum might find this interesting:

Having read that this happens, that diamonds are sent to various grading agencies in hopes for a for a better report, I was still surprised to see a GIA report included with my diamond. I purchased it based on the AGS-0 designation in F-color... that''s what the vendor had on their web site, so my immediate reaction when i got the GIA report at a G-color was there was a mixup in the diamonds. But I don''t think that''s the case ... after calming down and looking carefully, the reports seem to indicate it''s the same diamond. What do you think?

REPORTS
AGS-0, F color : what I saw on vendor web site
http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/1040365920003-PLDQR.PDF

GIA Excellent, G color : actual grading report recieved
http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=2105964877&weight=1.33
plus attachment showing the inclusions. (Scan of report was too large to post intact.)


Now, I was specifically looking at F-color diamonds and better based on my GF''s inputs hence my concern about the color. When I first saw the stone I could tell there was some color -- dissapointment. But it was the best looking diamond I''ve seen based on the cut...I''m still blown away by that. I looks great in all lights. With trepidation I showed it to my GF and she loved it!!! What a relief.

To confirm, is it the same diamond with two reports? If not then I have a real problem.

If everything is ok, I''ll never tell her about the G-color GIA report. (I need to get that AGS report!).

 

[davenb]

scan of GIA report

 

[davenb]

closer look at inclusions in GIA report

 

[Lorelei]

Daven

I would contact the vendor as soon as possible concerning this. It is possible for a diamond to have 2 grading reports certainly but - you bought a diamond with an AGS report and there are questions here comparing the info we have on the two, also there is a natural among some other inclusions noted on the GIA report, it isn't present on the AGS....

Please contact the vendor ASAP.

 

[Regular Guy]

Strange. At least contact the vendor, yes.

 

[stone-cold11]

Contact the vendor.

 

[haagen_dazs]

strange that IF its the same, AGS did not report on the cloud and the natural inclusions........

 

[kenny]

I've heard of sellers not liking or agreeing with a lab grade so they send the stone back or send it to another lab.

If this is that, they clearly sent you the report they wanted buried.

GIA gave it a G in July 2009.
AGS gave it an F in August 2009.

Kind of like when you don't like what mom says you go ask dad.

If this turns out to be the case I'd want some money back, perhaps half the price difference between an F and a G since it can be argued that this stone is both, or in between, and sending you the old report is a hugely embarrassing mistake.

Why pay for an F if this is an F/G?

 

[hihowareyou]

It seems unusual to have a 1.3ct stone re-graded in order to bump it from an G to a F? I would have thought that most re-grades relate to fancy colours or very large carat weights (maybe 3ct+) where the grade would make a considerable increase in value.

Perhaps the real reason it was sent to AGS was because it would achieve the AGS-0 rating and someone made the error of sending it to GIA initially.

Make sure that you get a copy of the AGS report from the vendor in any case since you bought the diamond based on that report and a lot of the value to you seems to be tied up in the AGS-0 grade. It would be worth questioning them on the colour/clarity issues too.


Out of pure curiosity is there data on stones that have been graded by both GIA and AGS where one could look at the differences in grading, how often and to which characteristics they differ on?

 

[Lorelei]

Mark, exactly - the cloud inclusion and especially the natural was not plotted for both diamonds....

Any news on this davenb?

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 11/1/2009 5:14:43 AM
Author: Lorelei


Mark, exactly - the cloud inclusion and especially the natural was not plotted for both diamonds....


Any news on this davenb?

maybe its not the same diamond
not the same grading report after all
and everyone on here is jumping the gun

it just happens to have diamonds with almost similar specifications (remember that the angles are rounded values )

Maybe AGS might not consider a cloud a cloud
BUT i am sure AGS will not be sloppy as to miss a natural (come on, if a natural is there, its 100% there)

 

[kenny]

In my post I was careful to write , "If".

 

[davenb]

It is Sunday in the US ... no response yet.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/1/2009 7:12:51 PM
Author: davenb
It is Sunday in the US ... no response yet.

Ok, be very interested to know what happens.

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 11/2/2009 5:19:27 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/1/2009 7:12:51 PM

Author: davenb

It is Sunday in the US ... no response yet.

Ok, be very interested to know what happens.

davenb
any updates on your situation?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2009 2:04:22 AM
Author: haagen_dazs

Date: 11/2/2009 5:19:27 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/1/2009 7:12:51 PM

Author: davenb

It is Sunday in the US ... no response yet.

Ok, be very interested to know what happens.

davenb
any updates on your situation?

Ditto?

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 11/1/2009 5:14:43 AM
Author: Lorelei

Mark, exactly - the cloud inclusion and especially the natural was not plotted for both diamonds....

It looks to me as though they were.

When I clicked on the link to the AGS report above, I could see the small red line right in the "v" at 6 o''clock in red on the AGS report. I''d imagine that''s the natural.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2009 8:58:18 AM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 11/1/2009 5:14:43 AM
Author: Lorelei

Mark, exactly - the cloud inclusion and especially the natural was not plotted for both diamonds....

It looks to me as though they were.

When I clicked on the link to the AGS report above, I could see the small red line right in the 'v' at 6 o'clock in red on the AGS report. I'd imagine that's the natural.

Wouldn't that be the feather Alj? Looks like the grade setters are a crystal and a feather marked and noted, If it were a natural wouldn't that be marked in green and also noted on the report?

 

[haagen_dazs]

6 o clock looks like the feather
a natural is a natural
its one of those inclusions where its more objective rather than subjective and its not on the AGS but its on the GIA

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 11/4/2009 9:06:19 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/4/2009 8:58:18 AM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 11/1/2009 5:14:43 AM
Author: Lorelei

Mark, exactly - the cloud inclusion and especially the natural was not plotted for both diamonds....

It looks to me as though they were.

When I clicked on the link to the AGS report above, I could see the small red line right in the ''v'' at 6 o''clock in red on the AGS report. I''d imagine that''s the natural.

Wouldn''t that be the feather Alj? Looks like the grade setters are a crystal and a feather marked and noted, If it were a natural wouldn''t that be marked in green and also noted on the report?

This is what happens when I post before I''ve finished my first cup of coffee......bah.

I misread, and thought it said the feather wasn''t plotted, so I commented to say "I think they are", but I glanced at the post I quoted and said typed natural instead of feather.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/5/2009 9:52:08 AM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 11/4/2009 9:06:19 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/4/2009 8:58:18 AM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 11/1/2009 5:14:43 AM
Author: Lorelei

Mark, exactly - the cloud inclusion and especially the natural was not plotted for both diamonds....

It looks to me as though they were.

When I clicked on the link to the AGS report above, I could see the small red line right in the ''v'' at 6 o''clock in red on the AGS report. I''d imagine that''s the natural.

Wouldn''t that be the feather Alj? Looks like the grade setters are a crystal and a feather marked and noted, If it were a natural wouldn''t that be marked in green and also noted on the report?

This is what happens when I post before I''ve finished my first cup of coffee......bah.

I misread, and thought it said the feather wasn''t plotted, so I commented to say ''I think they are'', but I glanced at the post I quoted and said typed natural instead of feather.

No worries Alj!

 

[davenb]

Hi everyone, when I wrote my question I asked it like this:

…Did I get the diamond I ordered? Unfortunately I don''t have access to a trusted jeweler here so I''m looking for to explain what happened. I''m worried as the diamond was a big purchase for me ... I don''t know if I got what was advertised, and if it was worth the money I spent on it! If I got the correct diamond, is it Is it really a G-color? I purchased it based upon the F color and AGS-0.

this was the response:

"I contacted the cutter who owned your diamond and had it certified. This diamond was originally certified by GIA and was given a G color VS1 clarity. When the cutter received the diamond and certificate back from GIA, he was not happy with the result of the certification (he is a certified gemologist and knew the grading was not correct) and had it re certified by AGS (who is the leader in the industry for diamond grading and accuracy). AGS gave this stone a F color, VS1 clarity, with an AGS-0 cut. Being the most recent certification, the AGS certificate will be the most accurate and will top all other certifications done.

I could pick apart the statement (and I will) … but the overall description is what I expected looking at the dates of the two grading reports and the physical similarities between the reports (diamond dimensions and inclusions). So it''s the same diamond, two reports, and the diamond is between a F and G in color – understandable.
Before going on any further, let me say this so there’s no confusion or speculation: the diamond is absolutely beautiful in all lighting!! I carried it around in my pocket for two days and looked at it in many different locations: work, outside in daylight, several restaurants and bars, elevators, outside at night, etc. Regardless of the sequence of events, I really like the diamond and my GF absolutely loves it. She showed family members the diamond and one of them later asked me privately I could find her a diamond like that.

The diamond is beautiful and speaks for itself. That’s what really matters to me.

 

[davenb]

With that out of the way ... onto discussing getting a diamond with two grading reports:


* So yes, diamond vendors are indeed submitting stones at this size & cut range to different grading companies. Can''t tell from a single instance how often this happens.

* GIA and AGS didn''t exactly align on physical dimensions. Why? I would think that would be the easy part of the report.

* I''ve heard the opinion that GIA may be more stringent on color grade. Perhaps this is true? Again, a single data point.

* Maybe there is real value to the vendor to obtain an AGS-0 designation? This is total speculation ... but maybe the diamond was re-graded to get the AGS-0 and the color bump from G to F was a surprise? Or maybe the vendor knew AGS was softer on color and thought there was a good chance to get an F color from AGS?

* Obviously the customer shouldn''t know about this happening as this could lead to some real issues.

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 11/6/2009 1:05:48 AM
Author: davenb

* GIA and AGS didn''t exactly align on physical dimensions. Why? I would think that would be the easy part of the report.

i kind of want to know that too.
Did GIA include something randomly or did AGS missed out on the inclusions?
Someone is getting sloppy.

anyways when it went up from G TO F, it just means that seller is going to be able to price the diamond higher =""> buyer loses out =(

 

[stone-cold11]

The vendor should also send you the AGS report, since that is what he sold it to you as.

The color scale was developed by GIA, so whatever they decide is the color unless you are not going to use the D-Z color scale.

Clarity wise, maybe something is missed, but as long as the clarity of the missed inclusions will not lower the clarity grade of the stone, nothing is wrong with essentially

That said, 1 color/clarity grade off is usually in grading even in the same lab.

Get an independent appraiser to go through it if you are still worried if it is the same stone.

 

[Lorelei]

If inclusions were missed like the natural, that to me is of concern in the standards of the grading in so far as observing and noting what is there. Get an appraiser to look at this diamond Dave. Here is the appraisal tool.