insuring ring with Jewelers Mutual? Chubb wont insure

[going2bbroke]

Hello All!
I would like to know if anyone here has ever gone with Jewelers Mutual to insure there ring? I called my homeowners policy (allstate) and they wanted to charge me $964 a year!!! to insure a ring that is work 18K. I called Chubbs and they wont insure me because I dont have my homeowners policy with them, they told me to call my homewoners. Any suggestions? I''m going to call Jewelers Mutual right now and see what they say.

Thanks!

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 5/9/2006 12:44:37 PM
Author:going2bbroke
Hello All!
I would like to know if anyone here has ever gone with Jewelers Mutual to insure there ring? I called my homeowners policy (allstate) and they wanted to charge me $964 a year!!! to insure a ring that is work 18K. I called Chubbs and they wont insure me because I dont have my homeowners policy with them, they told me to call my homewoners. Any suggestions? I''m going to call Jewelers Mutual right now and see what they say.

Thanks!

CHUBB WILL INSURE YOU. You just went to an agent that isn''t knowledgeable about the policy or doesn''t have the ability from Chubb to do so. Having homeowners is NOT a requirement for the engagement ring policy. It can be bought as a standalone policy.


Check with Bill Castro at www.totaldollar.com . there toll free number is on the website and call him.

He''ll get you covered as he is licensed in every state with Chubb, and specializes in valuable property coverage with them.

Rockdoc

 

[going2bbroke]

Thanks for the info!

i just called Jewelers Mutual. and because i live in California. L.A. County. my rate is higher then other states.
They insure a lost or broken stone, theft, accidental loss, damage, mysterious disappearance. the price they gave me was $455 a year. A lot better then Allstate, but still a bit higher then i expected.

 

[jaz464]

I got a really affordable rate through State Farm, with no homeowners policy.

 

[denverappraiser]

That's an awfully high rate for an Allstate policy. Things are different in LA but an $18k item in Colorado is about $300/year with them for the usual kind of homeowners rider that they sell. At JM, the LA rates are about 60% more than they are here and I'm surprised that Allstate would be coming in at triple. Perhaps there's a different kind of policy that you're being quoted or there is some other variable other than zip code that's affecting you. Talk to your agent about it, something doesn't sound right.

Where did the $18k valuation come from?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Ippon20]

I''m going through the same here in FL...called a Chubb agent and they said they would only insure a ring that was over 50,000 and that''s only if I have a homeowners policy worth more than 600,000. I asked them if this was their policy, or Chubbs and they kinda went silent for a while before saying it was their policy. The agent also told me that it didn''t make sense for them to do it anyways b/c it they would only make like $5.00 on me for the policy. I said thanks for the info but I''m sure there is a Chubb agent out there somewhere that can help me out. I guess what it just comes down to is money for most of these folks. If only they knew that there could be someone taking all their unwanted business which in turn could add up to far more then they imagine!! Just my .02....guess I''ll keep calling around now.

 

[going2bbroke]

Perhaps there''s a different kind of policy that you''re being quoted or there is some other variable other than zip code that''s affecting you. Talk to your agent about it, something doesn''t sound right.

Where did the $18k valuation come from?


Hello Denverappraiser. I called Allstate twice, because i thought they made a mistake the first time. I called and made sure they inputted the correct numbers and everything. and nope. They were right the first time. I got the 18K from the Appraisal card that my Diamond came with. (Should i have in appraised independently, or am i fine going with that appraisal?)

 

[going2bbroke]

another quick question.
When i purchased my Diamond it came with a Consultation of Appraisal certificate. That certificate says that the replacement value is $18,210.00 I purchased it for far!! Less. How much should i Insure it for? the full 18K, or a little less. Lets say 13 or 15K?

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 5/9/2006 1:51:02 PM
Author: Ippon20
I''m going through the same here in FL...called a Chubb agent and they said they would only insure a ring that was over 50,000 and that''s only if I have a homeowners policy worth more than 600,000. I asked them if this was their policy, or Chubbs and they kinda went silent for a while before saying it was their policy. The agent also told me that it didn''t make sense for them to do it anyways b/c it they would only make like $5.00 on me for the policy. I said thanks for the info but I''m sure there is a Chubb agent out there somewhere that can help me out. I guess what it just comes down to is money for most of these folks. If only they knew that there could be someone taking all their unwanted business which in turn could add up to far more then they imagine!! Just my .02....guess I''ll keep calling around now.

Call Mike Sauer at the Plastridge Agency here in FL 5612-395-1435 or 800-473-6603

He will write the standalone policy on your engagement ring for less than 50K and without homeowner''s.


You just talked to an agent who only cares about what he will make instead of providing good service.

Mike Sauer will take good care of you. If he doesn''t let me know.

Rockdoc

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 5/9/2006 4:39:54 PM
Author: going2bbroke
another quick question.
When i purchased my Diamond it came with a Consultation of Appraisal certificate. That certificate says that the replacement value is $18,210.00 I purchased it for far!! Less. How much should i Insure it for? the full 18K, or a little less. Lets say 13 or 15K?

How much you insure your item for I believe depends on what the limitations of the policy are.

In a REPLACEMENT TYPE policy like State Farm, Allstate, Nationwide and Jewelers Mutual they will NEVER pay more to settle your claim than the amount it is insured for, and if they can replace it for less, they will only settle in cash for that amount.

In a Stated Value value type policy.... like Chubb, they will pay up to 50% additional to the amount it is insured for if YOUR cost to buy another one in the future is more than what you insured it for.

SO .... to basically get the same coverage as Chubb you''d need to insured it for 50% greater than what you paid to get the same coverage, and so you have enough to replace it in the event that the cost would go higher.

Another factor you might not be aware of, is that the premium is based on WHERE the item will be worn or kept.

I had another customer who lived in the bay area, and his fiance was going to school in LA. She was going to be in LA for a year then she was going to move to San Fran. So the premium for the first year was a lot higher, as the crime rate in LA is a lot higher than SF. Believe it or not, once she moved to San Fran the premium cost was reduced by 50%!

So if you fiance actually lives in a different location, tell the agent as the rate may be significantly lower. Even a change of zip code can affect the rates a lot.

The two agents I mentioned above are both licensed in Calif. and can provide standalone Chubb quotes for you.

Hope this helps,

Rockdoc

 

[going2bbroke]

Hey RockDoc,
So, who should i call???
Bill Castro at www.totaldollar.com

or

Call Mike Sauer at the Plastridge Agency here in FL 5612-395-1435 or 800-473-6603

You recomended both?
i called Bill earlier today, he wasnt there so i left a message.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 5/9/2006 5:41:01 PM
Author: going2bbroke
Hey RockDoc,
So, who should i call???
Bill Castro at www.totaldollar.com

or

Call Mike Sauer at the Plastridge Agency here in FL 5612-395-1435 or 800-473-6603

You recomended both?
i called Bill earlier today, he wasnt there so i left a message.

What state are you in?

Mike is licensed in about 15-20 states.

Bill is licensed in all the states.

Both very helpful agents who know the Chubb product ( most of the Chubb agents either don''t know or don''t want to be bothered unless you buy other insurance from them) , and are very professional.

Rockdoc

 

[TravelingGal]

Rockdoc, thanks for the info. I am in California and tried calling Bill Castro. He has not returned my calls yet - just though I''d mention it here for everyone''s FYI. I will try again tomorro.

 

[going2bbroke]

Thanks again for the info.
I live in CA, and the ring would be worn in L.A. County

 

[Ippon20]

Date: 5/9/2006 6:23:36 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Rockdoc, thanks for the info. I am in California and tried calling Bill Castro. He has not returned my calls yet - just though I''d mention it here for everyone''s FYI. I will try again tomorro.

I called today to...was told Bill was out for the day but should be back in tommorrow. Whoever it was sounded like they really wanted to help out (that was a positive in my book) but I thought I should wait and use rocdocs recommendation. He''ll get some business tommorrow for sure!!

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/9/2006 4:39:54 PM
Author: going2bbroke
another quick question.
When i purchased my Diamond it came with a Consultation of Appraisal certificate. That certificate says that the replacement value is $18,210.00 I purchased it for far!! Less. How much should i Insure it for? the full 18K, or a little less. Lets say 13 or 15K?

The expectation that the amount printed on the ‘consultation of appraisal’ given to you by the selling jeweler will result in an insurance payment of that amount in the case of a loss is simply not correct. Talk to your insurance agent about how they handle claims and about their standards for acceptable appraisals before they will bind a policy. I would not expect Chubb to accept this as appropriate documentation to support a policy. For the replacement type policies, You are costing yourself extra money by using that document since they base the premium on the bottom line presented by you on the appraisal but they base the payout in the case of a loss on the description. They probably will accept it, it''s YOU that should refuse.

What was the transaction price and what explaination was given for why these numbers are significantly different?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Modified Brilliant]

A "consultation of appraisal" sounds like a "sales tool." That''s why the value is inflated.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[going2bbroke]

Hi RockDoc,
Just spoke with Mike Sauer, he was very helpfull and answered all my questions.
He is going to call me back with a quote. He had no problem giving me a quote even thought i dont have homeowners insurrance with them.

thanks!!

 

[going2bbroke]

A "consultation of appraisal" sounds like a "sales tool." That''s why the value is inflated.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

Jeff Averbook,G.G. (G.I.A.) since 1986. NAJA (member)GIA Alumni Association (member)



I asked about that "consultation of appraisal" and I was told that Chubbs does cash out, so even thouhg you can buy it for less. You are better off insuring it for what it says its appraised for. Not less. If you go with other companies that dont do cash out, and will only pay what you can find it for, then insure it for less.

 

[Mara]

I''m actually working with Carla Yanase in SF to get my new stone insured through Chubb...previously I had let my old insurance lapse then decided I didn''t really need it. They say that if you are able to replace the ring and stone if something happens to it, that you don''t NEED insurance on it. But once you cannot do that, you should insure the item. So that is where we are at now, I could have replaced my old stone/ring etc in terms of cost but this new stone is way out of the ''easily replaceable'' price range. So it''s getting insured.

Anyway, I emailed David Stone after finding his info here on PS. He wrote back a day later and said that Mike was the new contact and that he would make sure he contacted me ASAP. That was yesterday morning and Mike has still not contacted me. So I emailed Carla yesterday afternoon after finding her information in an old post on here, and she wrote me back within 2 hours with a quote.

Here is her information for anyone in the SF or Bayarea who wants a quote. I would imagine she could insure anywhere in CA and maybe all of the US like the other reps? But I''d ask:

Carla J. Yanase
Hub International Personal Insurance
101 California Street, #2760
San Francisco, CA 94111
Direct: 415 262 1467
Fax: 415 262 1488
Mobile: 415 307 8963
License #0623833

 

[TravelingGal]

FYI Bill Castro just returned my call from yesterday (I guess he was out). Totally nice guy and helped me out. Going to send me a quote shortly.

Thanks for the help, Rockdoc!

 

[Mara]

Date: 5/10/2006 12:33:21 PM
Author: TravelingGal
FYI Bill Castro just returned my call from yesterday (I guess he was out). Totally nice guy and helped me out. Going to send me a quote shortly.

Thanks for the help, Rockdoc!

Oh I also emailed him yesterday morning, and didn''t hear back at all either...I''m all about the quick response or I move on. Instant gratification!

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 5/10/2006 12:21:39 PM
Author: going2bbroke
Hi RockDoc,
Just spoke with Mike Sauer, he was very helpfull and answered all my questions.
He is going to call me back with a quote. He had no problem giving me a quote even thought i dont have homeowners insurrance with them.

thanks!!

Hi Going2bbroke

Mike is a true professional as far as Chubb is concerned. He knows the program for the engagement ring coverages inside and out.

I''m glad to hear he is able to quote you, and if you do sustain a loss for whatever reason, he will be there to help you with your claim.

There IS a BIG difference between Chubb agents...... many just don''t know the program details well, or want to oversell you additional coverages, which is NOT a requirement of Chubb.

Needless to say, Mike would welcome writing your other insurance coverages, but he won''t ''force feed'' you with having to buy other insurance coverages that you may not be ready or need to do. Instead, he will be there at YOUR request for other insurance needs that you may have over the years.


Rockdoc

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 5/9/2006 6:23:36 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Rockdoc, thanks for the info. I am in California and tried calling Bill Castro. He has not returned my calls yet - just though I''d mention it here for everyone''s FYI. I will try again tomorro.

Mike Sauer IS licensed in California. So if you don''t make contact with Bill Castro, you could use Mike Sauer if you wish.



Bill was out yesterday - but he should return your call today hopefully.

I think both get a little overwhelmed with calls from all over due to PS.

Rockdoc

 

[sfritz]

Dear "going2bbroke":

It sounds like you may have an inflated appraisal. I suggest that you have the ring professionally appraised by a jeweler you trust so you insure it at the correct amount. You want to have an adequate insurance limit - especially in this market with its increasing costs for gold and platinum - but you don''t want to over insure it either. The jeweler may charge you for this service because you didn''t purchase the item from them.

If you are very concerned about the price you are paying for insurance, make a checklist of the important features you want provided by the coverage. When you call each company, check off all of the items that they cover, add things to the bottom of the list that you didn''t think of, and then record the price. I think the right answer for your situation will become clear.

Sue Fritz
Jewelers Mutual Insurance Company

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/10/2006 12:25:19 PM
Author: going2bbroke

I asked about that ''consultation of appraisal'' and I was told that Chubbs does cash out, so even thouhg you can buy it for less. You are better off insuring it for what it says its appraised for.

Rockdoc,

In your observation, is correct? If a customer buys an item accompanied by a ''consultation of appraisal'' or some similar document containing the word appraisal and showing an amount in drastic excess of what was paid, is Chubb likely to bind a policy and, in the case of a claim, pay out cash at the full value stated on that document without regard to known facts like the transaction price or the expected costs for a similar piece? This has not been my experience with them, or any other insurer, but you seem to have a very close relationship with some Chubb agents and I''ld love to hear more about their policies on this.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[going2bbroke]

I too just got a call back from Bill Castro. Very helpfull as well.
Mara: sounds like you should have called and left a message. I called MIke this morning and he answered. I called Bill yesterday, left a message and he returned my phone call about 30 min ago.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Mara]

I checked into Jeweler''s Mutual, but they are not that appealing to me because they don''t have a cash-out policy. I totally don''t trust anyone to choose a diamond for me but myself or my vendor/jeweler. So cash-out seems like the only way to go if possible, I know that you do pay a premium to insure with Chubb but I don''t have a local company that is easily found nor do I feel like researching for a week to find the best deal or whatever.

 

[Mara]

Date: 5/10/2006 1:08:21 PM
Author: going2bbroke
I too just got a call back from Bill Castro. Very helpfull as well.
Mara: sounds like you should have called and left a message. I called MIke this morning and he answered. I called Bill yesterday, left a message and he returned my phone call about 30 min ago.

Thanks everyone!

I don't use the phone more than I absolutely have to.

Sounds like maybe they are too busy anyhow.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 5/10/2006 1:03:09 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 5/10/2006 12:25:19 PM
Author: going2bbroke

I asked about that ''consultation of appraisal'' and I was told that Chubbs does cash out, so even thouhg you can buy it for less. You are better off insuring it for what it says its appraised for.

Rockdoc,

In your observation, is correct? If a customer buys an item accompanied by a ''consultation of appraisal'' or some similar document containing the word appraisal and showing an amount in drastic excess of what was paid, is Chubb likely to bind a policy and, in the case of a claim, pay out cash at the full value stated on that document without regard to known facts like the transaction price or the expected costs for a similar piece? This has not been my experience with them, or any other insurer, but you seem to have a very close relationship with some Chubb agents and I''ld love to hear more about their policies on this.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Hi Neil......

First, the type of policy I believe to be the factor that separates the method of a settlement of a claim.

Stated Value policy is what Chubb writes. This is an all risk policy, that pays the insured amount in cash. Chubb''s basic "belief" here is that IF the insured wants to pay the premiums based on a reasonably higher amount, then they are willing to write the check. In addition, if in future time, the cost for the insured results in an amount greater than the stated amount on the policy, they will pay up to 50% additional. I am sure that would require some substanciation, but it is a very relevant part of the policy.

I haven''t actually seen the written Chubb policy, but I would assume it has the usual requirement that the insured disclose any FACT that affects their material risk. This means that if the purchase price was less, and the insurance is purchased shortly after the time of purchase, that the purchase price be disclosed to the insurance company. Due to the range of pricing for an item between internet sellers and brick & mortar stores, a purchase on the internet which an insured wants to cover for more is reasonably justified. But is it really necessary? Probably not, due to the terms and conditions of the policy giving the "buffer" of paying up to 50% additional if the cost to buy another one is greater.

A consideration here is the market of which the item is purchased and where the replacement will be sold in. Insurance companies haven''t yet defined the replacement market in policies where the insured can go to replace the item. In a replacement policy, the market is pre-determined - the insurance company''s replacement choice. In the stated value policy it isn''t spelled out, noting for instance that an internet purchase be required to be replaced in the same market.


In the case of going2bbroke''s valuation report, if he paid $ 13K through an internet seller, and the consutation ( probably a feel good valuation) of $ 18K which MIGHT be what a b&m store would charge possibly may be valid.

I am sure you would agree that in the scenario above the market levels each be defined properly in the report used as a basis for the monetary coverages. As for Chubb, insuring the item for the lower amount, would save premium expense, and still result in up to a $ 19K payout should the cost to buy another item from the insured''s choice of supplier would be in excess of the $ 13K.

I think it is important to disclose the price paid if the insurance amount desired is greater, so that IF the underwriter accepts the coverage, that fact was disclosed in advance of the coverage. Otherwise the insured could be creating a loophole for the insurance company to change or even dispute the claim in the future. However, this is not a common practice for Chubb to do. IF the insured pays the premiums they pay the claim.

Unlike replacement policies, because Chubb is not paying a claim for a loss based on duplicating a like, kind quality item, they don''t require a formal appraisal report for items insured for under $ 50K.

Another additional thought is motivation in purchasing. A consumer purchase made at a store on or the internet, doesn''t have the element of a forced sale. The buyer is free to decide whether or not he wants to purchase the item. In an insurance claim there is a mandate that the item must be purchased, and purchased in a set time limit to settle the claim per the terms and conditions of the policy. A "required" purchase may result in higher costs, but not always, but something to think about, which depending on the availability of the replacement might just be at a higher cost.

Then there are unusual scenarios where the insured may not want another jewelry item. With a stated value policy he gets a check, and can buy whatever he likes. In a replacement policy, the insurance company will require replacement....or a cash out at a significantly lower amount which is quoted by THEIR replacement source.

I will agree that many of the compies seller the replacement type insurance coverage, will be fair and reasonable in their settlement procedures, but some are stubborn, with satisfying insureds. I do favor the stated value type coverage far more, as the insured knows upfront what to expect if he or she does experience a loss. In a replacement policy type settlement, the insured does not know what he will receive until there is a loss, and a lot of that is dependent on the how well the insured and the adjuster are able to negotiate or with the replacement company. Plus the insurance company will NOT pay more than the insured amount even if the cost to replace is greater than the insured amount.

In my opinion, this is a no brainer as to which coverage is better, and should be obvious to consumers as well. Even though Chubb may charge a higher percentage of premiums, a consumer can still safely insure the item without guessing what the costs may be in the furture, and having to insure the item for more to just "play it safe".

Rockdoc