Including her in the ceremony.

[merbear1215]

I got engaged in April and that time, asked my sister to be my matron of honor, three friends and two cousins to be bridesmaids. Both of these cousins were in my sisters wedding. This may be awful (and it since came us as an issue) but when I asked the girls to be bridesmaids, I just texted it. That is just my way, the same way I didn't run around with the news I was engaged, just waited people to notice, didn't make phone calls to tell people, the whole thing was very low key. And, I had kind of a guilt thing going on because I know how involved it can be to be a bridesmaid, so anyway. Everyone, including my one cousin I will call Betty, texted back immediately with all kinds of "yes of course" type answers.

Fast forward a month and I send out an email with a possible dress I had chosen. I wanted to run the cost by everyone and see if they liked the dress, etc. Only then, did Betty write me back and say she was not going to be in the bridal party, she could not afford it. The email was nice, but that was jist of it. Betty is 27 years old, works full times, lives in CA. The dress is $135, and that is ALL. I have no care about shoes, hair, makeup, nails. About as basic as you can get. And we are in Illinois, so I knew Betty wouldn't come for the shower, etc. but that was fine (she didn't attend those functions for my sister either).

I didn't write her back because I just didn't want to deal with it. I felt angry and thought "gee, if you saved 10 dollars a week, you could cover it easily," but I didn't want to add any more drama, nor did I want to write back and say it was all fine because honestly, I thought that was shitty. In addition, I have always felt left out by her and my sister, so her not being in my wedding added to that. Or, she could have asked her parents, my aunt and uncle, or they could have offered. Meanwhile, she is MOH in a wedding two weeks before mine and has flown from CA to IL to run a half marathon......sure that was not cheap.

It's really created a lot of issues....between my mom and her sister (my mom is really easy going and her older sister, Betty's mom, always has had her way). For years, my mom has said nothign and probably been OK with that, but she plans to say something to her sister after the wedding. For the first time, she just says she feels differently towards her, that if the shoe were on the other foot, my mom would have done whatever possible to make sure we were in Betty's wedding.

So, here is my question. We have a part in the ceremony that calls for two witnesses. Right now, Betty is the only first cousin not in the wedding. Do I ask her to be a witness???

 

[amc80]

Yes. While you think she may have enough money to be in your wedding, you really don't know what is going on in her personal life and personal finances. She as her reasons for declining your invitation, and she has that right. Just like you had the right to ask her or not. I can see why you are hurt, but I think your reaction will dictate the relationship you guys have in the future. Take the high road- tell her you understand that she can't be a bridesmaid, but tell her she means a lot to you and ask if she would want to be a witness.

Maybe the reason she can't afford to be in yours is because she was in your sisters and already had the trip for the half marathon. Not so much a "well she can afford these things so she can afford my wedding" but a "because she's already done/doing these things she can't afford my wedding."

 

[Anonymous]

Is she going to have to travel to come to your wedding? You may have already answered this, so if you did I'm sorry! If she will have to travel, I would hesitate to make her a witness, simply because she's already indicated that financially she's committed herself to other events.

 

[nkarma]

I think you should reread your post...it sounds very spoiled.

Sorry to sound harsh here....but I am personally sick of people saying "So-so has a job, a giant house, and WON'T spend the money on something I want them to." It's her money whether she has all of it or none of it and it is no ones right to tell her or expect her to spend it on anything no matter how important YOU find it to be. She enjoys running marathons...what is this...now brides have the right to tell their bridesmaids that their wedding is more important than their loved ones hobbies and they must sacrifice everything to wear an ugly dress and cater after you. If you are so into telling people how to spend their money, why don't you skimp out on eating out or whatever you enjoy doing to buy her dress, shoes, and flight. It's your wedding and you want it only to be her to make the sacrifice, but I bet if she turned the tables on you and examined your income and what things extra unimportant things she thinks you spend your money on and that you really could afford to buy her dress if it was so important to you since it's YOUR wedding, you would say how dare you.

I think it was really nice of her to let you know early and through a nice email. Also you know it will cost MUCH more than the dress. She will have to likely buy shoes to match the dress unless she already some that do (unlikely), flight, hotel, all the pre-wedding events. It will def add up. And just because you say you don't want them to get hair and nails done, doesn't mean they don't feel like they have to given they will be in all the pictures and want to look good too.

To answer your question, yes, you should include her as a witness if you want her to be. I think that would be a nice gesture.

 

[ForteKitty]

If you really want her in your wedding, pay for her dress. My circle of friends all paid for their bridal party's dresses and nails.

Remember that she already has to pay for the plane ticket(~$350-400), and is probably thinking she'll have to chip in for all the things she wont participate in. it gets expensive. Plus living in CA is expensive too. A 2 bed 1 bath 900 sq. ft house down the street from my bf's just went up for $2200/month.. insane.

Just because she has a full time job, doesn't mean she has extra money to waste.

 

[merbear1215]

Nkarma, I have to admit, I am pretty offended by the things you said. Perhaps I didn't explain myself well.

I just want to say, I very very much understand that just because my wedding matters to me, does not mean it matters to everyone the same way. And I have not asked anyone to act like that. And, my bigger issue than her not being able to afford it (because I do think that is reasonable) is that she never hesitated in the slightest way or expressed any concerns until after I emailed the girls.

I am very sympathetic to people's expenses. Personally though, I would have either thought it through more before saying yes, or as soon as I realized it was unrealistic for me to be in the wedding, notified that person. As for telling her how to spend her money, to each his own. However, when you see people travel, or go out or what not, it at least gives the appearance of being comfortable. Maybe I am being sensitive, but I feel like it is more about her just not really caring for me/wanting to be in the wedding than truly not being able to afford it.

As far as her spending other money, that REALLY is not happening. The shoes are black whatever people want, I don't know a girl who does not have those. The hair/make up/ nails. Most of my bridesmaids are NOT doing that, my matron of honor is having none of that. So really, there was zero pressure there. She is staying with her parents for the wedding.

My point, which was probably not made well, is that this is a person who I have always felt left out from and ignored by. She is family though, and by having her in the wedding, I felt like that was a gesture on my part to be closer or something. Then, by her not being in it, for me it confirmed a life long feeling that she was just closer to my sister, or liked her more, or cared about her more.

I'm sure I am not 100% right, but I also don't thing I am nearly as horrible as I guess I came off.

 

[Autumnovember]

I agree that she needed to think things through before going ahead and telling you she could do it. I don't think you are being selfish or self centered whatsoever.

I would not include her in the ceremony.

By the way I disagree with the comments about spending 135$ on a dress being difficult. Lets be realistic here, the price for the dress is pretty fair. I'm a broke college kid with no job and I know I can scrounge up 135$. If I truly could not afford it I would ask the bride to meet me half way with the cost of the dress.

 

[FuturePsyD]

Merbear:

I'm with you on this one. And I also agree that many of the comments made by NKarma were a bit offensive, and the post isn't even about me. Nkarma, it seems that Merbear hit a nerve with you, because you really seem to have taken it VERY personally!

This is her FIRST cousin. She agreed enthusiastically to be a BM, then without compromise dropped out. From what I have experienced, $135 is a relatively reasonable price for a BM dress, so I highly doubt that she was "shocked" by the price and felt it was unreasonable.

I don't think that Merbear was intending to tell her FIRST cousin how to spend her money, but that she was hurt by the fact that her FIRST cousin didn't find her and her wedding to be imporant enough to invest $135 in!!!! Come on!!! And quite honestly, I WOULD expect my first cousin to allocate a SMALL amount of her income for my wedding. What is wrong with that? Its a matter of respect and caring for your blood relatives. To do otherwise is SELFISH and self absorbed. Oh, I'd rather spend my money on A B C that won't matter in 1,5,10 years, but your wedding wasn't important enough to invest $135 in. NOT nice and a terrible message to send to family member(s)! She comes across as quite selfish if you ask me.

I'm with Merbear on this one. I would be quite offended if my first cousin pulled a stunt like this over $135! I do NOT think that you should include her in your ceremony as your witness. She has shown herself to be an uncaring family member from my perspective. Why rely on her any further for anything??

Good luck!

 

[sillyberry]

I understand why you're hurt - someone agreed to be a bridesmaid and then backed down, when it seems like you're not asking something outrageous or out of the ordinary. That's definitely poor etiquette. It also sounds like there is a lot of longstanding interpersonal drama going on between you, your sister, Betty, and your respective parents, and that is coloring this whole interaction in a negative way for you. It's hard when you feel like you've been left out of a meaningful familial relationship.

I do think your original post wasn't particularly...diplomatic, though, to put it mildly, and that's what posters were responding to. I think the BM/money issue is one that hits a nerve for a lot of people and you were on the receiving end of that frustration.

To directly answer your question, if you know Betty is coming to the wedding, and you want her to be included, feel free to ask her to be a witness. Otherwise, ask a friend or family member you actually feel a close connection with to stand there and be the official witness to your marriage. Make sure you pick a person that when you look at the marriage certificate you feel warm and fuzzy, not resentful about the stupid person who wouldn't shell out money to be your damn bridesmaid.

 

[ForteKitty]

I dont think it matters that she's a first cousin. Some cousins just aren't that close. Heck, some siblings aren't that close. It's sad, but happens all the time. my best friend's (older) sister hardly even speaks to her due to stupid jealousy crap, even tho my best friend went out on a limb time after time to do things for her sister. Her sister is just a drama queen who thinks the world is out to get her. it happens.

merbear- if she has a history of being distant, it's time to let things go. it's not worth your frustrations. you have better things to worry about.

 

[FuturePsyD]

Fortekitty:

Yes, not all first cousins, siblings, etc are close. But the issue here is that the cousin agreed happily to be in the wedding indicating that their relationship, although distant, isn't bad. She then dropped out over the price of a dress, which clearly sent the message "hey, you and your wedding are not important enough to me to invest $135 in. Close or not, that is a bit hurtful and in my opinion a bit selfish.

If I were the cousin, I would have kept my initial promise to my cousin and been there for her on her big day. That is what we do for family in my world rather than being selfish.

But to each his own.

 

[FuturePsyD]

Fortekitty:

I forgot to add that I agree with you in that Merbear should let her cousin just be. It definitely appears there is a history of distance between them, for whatever reason, and that was why IMO she shouldn't bother to include her cousin as a witness. If they are that distant that she can't invest $135 to be a BM, then I'm hopeful that Merbear can find a more suitable witness for her ceremony!

Merbear:

I wish you luck and whatever you decide, I hope that you have a beautiful wedding with only fond, happy memories!

 

[monarch64]

Merbear: yes, I think you should still include her as a witness.

I think (and this is of course my opinion only) that we are all selfish to some extent. We cannot assume things about others although in this day and age of everyone having very public personas it seems easy to determine someone's socioeconomic status and financial abilities. Still, I really think that we must see past these assumptions especially on occasions such as weddings, family get togethers, etc. We really have no clue about others' means regardless of what we THINK we know. I don't think you're wrong...I don't think SHE's wrong. I think in cases like this we have to really think long and hard before we come to conclusions and become hurt or feel unjustified or that our feelings aren't valid.

It is also my opinion that asking someone to be involved in your wedding is a very special invitation, an honor, that may or may not be accepted. If it is not accepted, I really really think that we might want to think twice about taking it personally. We have (again) grown accustomed to thinking we know what goes on in people's lives and make judgments easily because social networking sites and just all around familiarity let us think that we KNOW the person far better than we actually do.

You're calling it $135 for her to be in your wedding. SHE, on the other hand, might be thinking:

$135 dress
$50 alterations
$50-100 shoes
$? hair/makeup
$? travel
$? lodging
$? gift for you and your husband
$? contingencies

My point is that I understand that you are hurt that she retracted her intial response of "yes" to be in your wedding, but I feel that there must be a reason that is not personal. I implore you to SPEAK with her and figure out a way to resolve the issues. I think you will at least feel better after speaking with her, whatever the outcome happens to be. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[FuturePsyD]

Good points Monarch...

But many of the costs that you listed, gift, travel, (lodging the OP stated her cousin will be staying with her parents),will be spent by her cousin regardless of whether or not she is a BM. She didn't pull out of the wedding completely, she just backed out of being a BM and she did so after she was quoted the price of the dress.

 

[amc80]

Good points Monarch...

But many of the costs that you listed, gift, travel, (lodging the OP stated her cousin will be staying with her parents),will be spent by her cousin regardless of whether or not she is a BM. She didn't pull out of the wedding completely, she just backed out of being a BM and she did so after she was quoted the price of the dress.

Does it really matter what her reasons are? If she is declining, she's declining. She has HER reasons, and they are obviously important...important enough to decline. I would rather have her decline than have her stay as an unwilling/unenthusiastic participant in the wedding party.

 

[Haven]

I understand that you're hurt that your cousin backed out of your wedding, and I think people are always entitled to their feelings. I bet I would have felt hurt, too.

As for asking her to be in the ceremony, before you make that decision I think some *real* communication is in order, here. When you're ready, pick up the phone and call her. If you really want her to be in your wedding, tell her that over the phone. What you wrote to us about hoping that this experience would bring you closer is really sweet, and perhaps now it's time to tell your cousin this information. See how the phone call goes, and if you feel so inclined, ask her to take part in the ceremony. If not, don't.

As for why she backed out, I agree with the previous posters who said it doesn't really matter and it isn't your place to judge her choices, anyway. And besides, counting other people's money is an ugly habit so it's best to try to break it right now.

I don't think your cousin is being selfish by declining, and I don't think you are being selfish by being hurt by her decision. I think you have a golden opportunity to have a real, honest discussion with someone with whom you would like to become closer, and you'd be wise to take this as your chance to make that discussion happen. There is usually much more going on with people than what appears on the surface, especially people who live far away and who you aren't close with to begin with.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

If it was me who was in this situation i wouldn't ask her to be a witness.

Do you really want to have her signature and name on your wedding certificate for all of eternity even though she has made you feel left out in the past and has backed out of your wedding?

Maybe she could do a reading if you really feel inclined to have her involved.

 

[merbear1215]

Thank you for all the responses! Even the once that were a little offensive at least got me thinking.

I decided I will not ask her to be a witness. When it comes down to it, my cousin is allowed to make any decisions she wants and spend her money in anyway she chooses. I am happy she will be at the wedding and I will be friendly to her, etc. At the end of the day, there are other family members who have been supportive, and know us well, and thrown us showers, etc. If I had no other family, I would have her as a witness because I wouldn't NOT just to make a point, or just because I was hurt. However, in these circumstances, I feel I invited her to be a part of the wedding, she declined, and now there is a possible role, but there are other people I think should be honored during the ceremony (and didn't have an opportunity to be a bridesmaid).

Thank you again!! Isn't it interesting how differently people feel??

 

[FuturePsyD]

AMC:

So am I not able to give my opinion as to why her cousin dropped out because you feel it shouldn't matter why she did so? Second, I was simply responding to the reasons that Monarch gave, and the long list of expenses that she included as to the possible reason she may be declining to be a BM. I noted that the list of expenses Monarch pointed out were not all due to her being a bridesmaid. Simple as that.

And yes we know she declined to be a BM and, quite frankly, I do think it matters why she declined, bc the OP started this thread upset about this fact and was torn as to whether she should include her cousin as a witness in her ceremony given the possibility that her cousin declined because she didn't care or felt distance, or whether it really was due to lack of finances, etc. That is why my personal opinion was to NOT include her cousin as a witness since she so suddenly dropped out as BM. I think her cousins reasons for dropping out so suddenly did weigh on her mind, so we have been addressing the possible reasons behind it.

 

[amc80]

I guess I was taking it at face value when the OP said that the cousin said it was financial. You're right though, if the cousin has something against the OP and/or her fiance (or whatever), then she wouldn't want her in the wedding...at least I wouldn't. But going off of what we were told, it was a financial issue. If the cousin has other issues, well, she's not saying what they are...but she would probably decline the witness invite as well.

And of course you're allowed your opinion. One of the things that makes this (and other forums) so useful is we all have different opinions. What's the point of sharing experiences if we always agree?

 

[FuturePsyD]

AMC:

Thanks for your open minded response.

The issue was definitely a bit confusing and begged for speculation because her cousin dropped out suddenly. I guess we will never know why her cousin dropped out. But it was kinda hard not to speculate and have opinions about the reasoning behind it...

Overall, I am personally happy that Merbear was able to secure someone else as a witness in place of her cousin.

 

[merbear1215]

Hi Ladies,

It has been awhile since there was any action in this post, and I wanted to update and give a little more information and ask for more advice.

So, we had a beautiful October wedding, all was lovely. Fast forward two months and I was pretty much over the whole not being a bridesmaid thing. My mom had intended to talk to her sister about this after the wedding and I never even asked about it because I guess I was over it.

Well, over the holidays, my Uncle (not her dad, different uncle) treated the family to vacation in Mexico at an uber swanky resort. He paid for part of the flights and all of the villas but we were mostly on our own for food and activities. My cousin, who had declined to be a bridesmaid due to the expense (reminder dress was 135, no hair and makeup neccesary, black shoes, she was not coming to the shower/bachelorette party) was there, as were her parents.

I couldn't believe how comfortable they were spending money on this trip. Examples: to maintain "platinum" membership in their hotel point system, her parents got a hotel room for $139. Didn't stay there, we had a place to stay, just needed to get one more room in before the end of 2010 to maintain their status. I was floored. I thought "wow, you are comfortable spending that on an empty room but NOT on being in your cousins wedding." The next day, my cousin decided she was going to get a massage at the resort. The cheapest massage there was $255 (i looked into getting a massage too but decided not to since it was SO expensive). Then later, I heard her say she was going to treat my little cousin to the facial she had scheduled ($185).

I also found out for the first time, that my sister had actually offered to pay for my cousin's dress because she knew how hurtful this would be. My mom said too on this trip that she planned to talk to her sister because every time they talked about the money they were spending, the hairon the back of her neck stood up.

I think when I intitally posted about this, I seemed angry, and I probably was. However, on this trip, it all evolved into a lot of sadness. I understand that everyone can spend their money as they please. But, I think we all hope that a family member would sooner pay for a bridesmaid dress than an empty hotel room. It just really hurt my feelings.

She was a MOH in a wedding two weeks before and my mom thinks it was more about being overwhemed than not having the money. I could see that, but then I wish she had just said that because I could understand that.

I am thinking of now, 3 months later, saying something to her. Not angrily, but just explaining how I feel. Worth it?

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Nope, not worth it at all. She is who she is and she does what she does...live and let live.

 

[mrscushion]

Well, what do you want to achieve by talking to her about your feelings?

 

[lucyandroger]

Yeah, it seems clear that it was never really about the money. I would ask myself this...did she actually intend to hurt you by dropping out of the wedding? If not, then I would forgive and move on. She may have been overwhelmed with the other wedding or with work or with some other personal problem that you don't know about. Look at the big picture - you had a beautiful wedding and lovely bridesmaids that wanted to be there for you. So why stir up drama now?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

At 27, I wonder how many weddings she has been in? Maybe several? I can see why someone would eventually start saying no to anyone other than their very closest friends and relatives (such as sisters), although I can also understand your hurt feelings. She was MOH two weeks before your wedding, so I can understand her not really wanting to be in two in the same month regardless of the cost. It takes time as well as money. She would have had to attend the rehearsal and not just the wedding. That might have meant flying in a day earlier and taking an extra day off work. Maybe since she was coming a long way she just preferred spending more time with her family and just wanted to attend the wedding as a guest? So no, I wouldn't say a word. I can see why it might hurt that she is closer to your sister, but is she perhaps closer to your sister's age?

(Oh, and there were several posts that may have misread the original. She didn't accept and then decline. She waited to respond when you sent the email and then declined. I honestly don't have a problem with that since it was the first real communication from the bride after the initial text.)

 

[sillyberry]

DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Confronting Betty is an absolutely terrible idea. You say not angrily, but c'mon - you're still angry (perhaps rightfully). There is pretty much nothing you can say that will not make her be defensive. And then it blows up. The likelihood of her apologizing for hurting you and feeling bad about not being a member of your wedding party is really slim. I'm having a hard time of seeing how anything good can come of this.

I totally understand the urge to pick that scab. I've done it. Maybe it feels good at the moment, but man it leaves a scar.

I'm thinking of how happy and pretty you looked in those pictures with your handsome husband and your puppy - just remember that and let everything else be water under the bridge.

 

[charbie]

Honestly, I can't figure out why you're so hung up on this.
I get the fact that she's your cousin. Because she's "family" she is supposed to be your friend, tho? You're trying to develop a relationship with a woman who clearly doesn't care. Quit wasting your energy worrying about family who obviously doesn't hold you in the same regard and focus your energy instead on the people who care about you and show it.
She's made it pretty blatently obvious that you're not her priority, your feelings don't matter...by continuing to be hung up on this, you're only doing yourself a diservice.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Honestly, I can't figure out why you're so hung up on this.
I get the fact that she's your cousin. Because she's "family" she is supposed to be your friend, tho? You're trying to develop a relationship with a woman who clearly doesn't care. Quit wasting your energy worrying about family who obviously doesn't hold you in the same regard and focus your energy instead on the people who care about you and show it.
She's made it pretty blatently obvious that you're not her priority, your feelings don't matter...by continuing to be hung up on this, you're only doing yourself a diservice.

Oh, I totally get it. She's hurt and it made an impression on her that's lingering. It's okay for her to feel however she wants in regards to this situation.

I know it sucks...but who cares? You had a great wedding without her, and her being involved vs. not being involved didn't make a lick of difference on your big day. It's easy to fixate on something that burns you, and overtime, after you've had countless conversations with yourself about the "why's" and "how's" you've made this into a BIG THING that needs a BIG resolution. But the point is, as Charbie pointed out, what's done is done--no confrontation is going undo that. Hanging yourself up over what wasn't isn't going to help you in the long run. And even if you did spell it out for her, it's highly unlikely that she's going to come back with tears in her eyes to apologize for being a letdown...so don't put any more expectations on her that she'll fail to meet.

I know you're hurt, I can tell by your postings that this irks you and that it's difficult for you to let this go...but you have to now. You'll never forget, but try to move past it for your own sake.

((hugs))

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

I wouldn't say anything, just let it go. It was clear from the original post that it wasn't about the money for her and she has confirmed that for you on the holiday so why rub the salt in your wound by talking to her about it? What's done is done, move on. I am sorry that you are still hurting over this but you have absolutely nothing positive to gain by bringing up the past, especially when it's about how other people spend their money.