In need of opinions on two stones...

[wbarnwell]

So far I have been quoted on two stones that I like in particular.

The first comes from Diamonds-Direct in Birmingham, AL

It is a round .81 G IF, EX Cut, priced at $5188.00. GIA certified.

The second comes from a local jewler who I know and trust, however this stone is not certified.

It is a round 1.0 G. He is calling the clarity VS+. I looked at it under a 100x scope and could not see any inclusions, spots, feathering, etc. So I feel confident that it lies within the VS1-VVS1 range. I can't judge the cut of a diamond, but he says it is "near ideal". It is a beautiful stone, and he quoted it to me for 6,000 even.

I feel like both are good deals, especially the second. Would it be worth it to me to get the second stone certified for peace of mind? I haven't been able to find anything online that can beat those two deals. Thoughts?

 

[yssie]

So far I have been quoted on two stones that I like in particular.

The first comes from Diamonds-Direct in Birmingham, AL

It is a round .81 G IF, EX Cut, priced at $5188.00. GIA certified.

The second comes from a local jewler who I know and trust, however this stone is not certified.

It is a round 1.0 G. He is calling the clarity VS+. I looked at it under a 100x scope and could not see any inclusions, spots, feathering, etc. So I feel confident that it lies within the VS1-VVS1 range. I can't judge the cut of a diamond, but he says it is "near ideal". It is a beautiful stone, and he quoted it to me for 6,000 even.

I feel like both are good deals, especially the second. Would it be worth it to me to get the second stone certified for peace of mind? I haven't been able to find anything online that can beat those two deals. Thoughts?

Defective or misused microscope.


Yes, have him send it go GIA or AGSL (and specify that you want the DQD Platinum Report). If it comes back G & VS or higher, EX/VG or 0/1/2 (since he specified "near ideal") you pay for the report. If not he pays for it. Either way confirm that you are not committed to the stone.

 

[wbarnwell]

Defective or misused microscope.


Yes, have him send it go GIA or AGSL (and specify that you want the DQD Platinum Report). If it comes back G & VS or higher, EX/VG or 0/1 you pay for the report. If not he pays for it. Either way confirm that you are not committed to the stone.

Ok. If it does come back as stated, where does that price stand? Like I said, I haven't been able to find anything with similar specs for that price online.

And, where does the price stand on the first, certified diamond?

Thanks so much for the advice, I really appreciate it.

 

[JulieN]

Is that jeweler a member of AGS? Ask them to send it AGSL for grading; if everything comes back within a grade, you pay for the report. If anything is off by more two grades or more, the jeweler pays for the report, and you are not obligated to buy.

Do you have the GIA report number on the other one, or the proportions?

 

[wbarnwell]

Is that jeweler a member of AGS? Ask them to send it AGSL for grading; if everything comes back within a grade, you pay for the report. If anything is off by more two grades or more, the jeweler pays for the report, and you are not obligated to buy.

Do you have the GIA report number on the other one, or the proportions?

Unfortunately I do not have a report number, although I will email them and see if they can give it to me. I'm not sure if the jewler is a member of the AGS, but I might just go ahead and have him send it off. It would be worth the $150.00 or so if it came back as said, right?

 

[yssie]

Defective or misused microscope.


Yes, have him send it go GIA or AGSL (and specify that you want the DQD Platinum Report). If it comes back G & VS or higher, EX/VG or 0/1 you pay for the report. If not he pays for it. Either way confirm that you are not committed to the stone.

Ok. If it does come back as stated, where does that price stand? Like I said, I haven't been able to find anything with similar specs for that price online.

And, where does the price stand on the first, certified diamond?

Thanks so much for the advice, I really appreciate it.

Quick Blue Nile check shows 5.1k is right about drop-shipper price, so if you're buying in-person and the store is offering other value-adds (detailed review of the stone, servicing, any sort of upgrade/trade-in policies) it's a fantastic value.

Fantastic value doesn't necessarily equal fantastic stone, depending on what your priorities are - ditto Julie, get the report number and we can tell you more. Yes, if you're very interested in the second stone having it sent to GIA or AGSL is definitely worth it - you want confirmation of what the stone is worth by that independent authority. GIA is slow - AGS would be faster.

 

[wbarnwell]

Quick Blue Nile check shows 5.1k is right about drop-shipper price, so if you're buying in-person and the store is offering other value-adds (detailed review of the stone, servicing, any sort of upgrade/trade-in policies) it's a fantastic value.

Fantastic value doesn't necessarily equal fantastic stone, depending on what your priorities are - ditto Julie, get the report number and we can tell you more. Yes, if you're very interested in the second stone having it sent to GIA or AGSL is definitely worth it - you want confirmation of what the stone is worth by that independent authority. GIA is slow - AGS would be faster.

Once again, thanks for the input. I am pretty new to this, so I would say I am still in the process of prioritizing what I want. I know I don't want to sacrifice on cut or color, and I'm willing to be more lenient with clarity, so long as I can see the diamond in person. I've seen some good looking SI2s, and I've seen some that I wouldn't touch, which is why I think I am so hesitant to shop online. There is something to be said about seeing a diamond in person, and I am certainly not adept enough to determine what the eye appeal of a diamond will be be seeing its specs and measurements.

So, I'll see if I can get that report and I'll be sure to update.

Thank you!

 

[wbarnwell]

OK, here are the specs on the .81

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.94 - 5.98 x 3.71 mm
Carat Weight: 0.81 carat
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: Internally Flawless
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions
Depth: 62.3%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 35.0°
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 85%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None
Finish
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Medium Blue


She also just emailed me back with another stone at .75 G VVSI with EX cut, EX polish and EX symmetry for $4200

for the .75

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.78 - 5.81 x 3.63 mm
Carat Weight: 0.75 carat
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: VVS1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions
Depth: 62.6%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 35.0°
Crown Height: 14.5%
Pavilion Angle: 41.6°
Pavilion Depth: 44.0%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None
Finish
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

 

[JulieN]

Cut on teh second one is no good. First one is probably ok, but yeoww at paying for IF clarity. And 85% lgf is thinner than I like.

 

[wbarnwell]

Cut on teh second one is no good. First one could be ok, but yeoww at paying for IF clarity.

I'm sure it would take a long explanation, but could you just tell me in a few words what you looked at to determine that the cut on the second stone is no good?

As for paying for the IF diamond...yeah, I am quickly realizing that I can get more bang for my buck - especially in size by moving down in clarity, although I'm not sure I want to go any lower than a VS1-2.

 

[JulieN]

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut

41.6 PA is steep, you will have leakage under the table.

If you are looking for good deal, I like this one for under 4000! http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.80-carat-G-color-VS2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-189809
Medium/largish table at 60%, but it gives you a little bit more spread and I prefer that over the 85% LGF of the G IF, and almost $1.5K less.

 

[wbarnwell]

Very nice, I was just shown this diamond during my lunch break. I liked it a lot.

.90 G SI1 "Excellent Ideal" No Florescence, 6.21-6.19 x 385mm $4400.00 EGL Certified

As far as size goes. I think I prefer being that much closer to a carat. I couldn't really tell the difference between it and the 1.02 she showed me.

 

[JulieN]

EGL what, USA or International?

 

[wbarnwell]

USA, I think, but the cert numbers she wrote down look like this:

E23373-04
190-2000725

Neither of which match the EGL Int'nl or USA records. I'm going to call them and see if they have the correct cert #

 

[wbarnwell]

These are the measurements taken off of the certificate that I found online.

Weight: .90
Certificate #: 3209131928
Report Number: EGL3209131928
Date: 19/09/2012
Diamond Class: Natural Diamond
Cristal Type: Type IaAB
Shape and Cut: Round Brilliant
Carat weight: 0.90 Ct.
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Measurements: 6.21 - 6.19 x 3.85
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Total Depth: 62.1 %
Table Width: 55 %
Crown Height: 16 %

 

[JulieN]

Date: 19/09/2012

So, is that international or USA? USA is more accurate.

 

[wbarnwell]

Date: 19/09/2012

So, is that international or USA? USA is more accurate.

Right and she explained that to me. If I recall they don't use International. So, I believe that is USA.

 

[wbarnwell]

A

Date: 19/09/2012

So, is that international or USA? USA is more accurate.

Alright so I just got off the phone with EGL USA and apparently the number I was given is in fact an EGL International report number. So, I was either mistaken, or I just misheard what she said. Either way, I understand the EGL international can be unreliable?

 

[JulieN]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-v-egl-good-example-of-the-difference-in-grading.184917/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-v-egl-good-example-of-the-difference-in-grading.184917/[/URL]

4 colors grades off, 2 clarity grades.

 

[wbarnwell]

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-v-egl-good-example-of-the-difference-in-grading.184917/

4 colors grades off, 2 clarity grades.

I see, and I agree that those certifications appear to be unreliable, but I will say that in person the diamond looked better than the 1.02 H SI2 Very Good, GIA certified diamond that I looked at. All that being said, I am not an appraiser, and I value the opinions of people like you who know more than I do.

Hypothetically, if the certification were not in question, how would you say that diamond holds up or compares the others that I've listed?

 

[JulieN]

So take it to an appraiser. If EGL-I just throws darts for their grading, maybe they get it right once in a while.

One color off, to an H, is ok, I expect that to be built in to the price. Example: http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.91-carat-H-color-SI1-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-179696

One grade clarity to SI2, or to an I color, and the value starts dropping like a stone. You could take it to an appraiser, preferably one who has Ideal Scope or ASET capabilities.

 

[wbarnwell]

Will do.

 

[bunnycat]

Cut on teh second one is no good. First one could be ok, but yeoww at paying for IF clarity.

I'm sure it would take a long explanation, but could you just tell me in a few words what you looked at to determine that the cut on the second stone is no good?

As for paying for the IF diamond...yeah, I am quickly realizing that I can get more bang for my buck - especially in size by moving down in clarity, although I'm not sure I want to go any lower than a VS1-2.

I'm not sure if you saw Julie's link for stone cut tutorial, but here is a brief cheat sheet for you. Checking these numbers on any certificate you view (either online or in person) can help you weed out stones that are obviously out of bounds. The HCA tool (under the tools tab) will also help weed stones out. Look for stones that score under 2.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above


And here is the link to the thread in case you want to read a little:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/[/URL]

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

 

[wbarnwell]

Cut on teh second one is no good. First one could be ok, but yeoww at paying for IF clarity.

I'm sure it would take a long explanation, but could you just tell me in a few words what you looked at to determine that the cut on the second stone is no good?

As for paying for the IF diamond...yeah, I am quickly realizing that I can get more bang for my buck - especially in size by moving down in clarity, although I'm not sure I want to go any lower than a VS1-2.

I'm not sure if you saw Julie's link for stone cut, but here is a brief cheat sheet for you. Checking these numbers on any certificate you view (either online or in person) can help you weed out stones that are obviously out of bounds:

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above


And here is the link to the thread in case you want to read a little:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/[/URL]

I must have missed that. This is extremely helpful! Thank you!

 

[bunnycat]

Cut on teh second one is no good. First one could be ok, but yeoww at paying for IF clarity.

I'm sure it would take a long explanation, but could you just tell me in a few words what you looked at to determine that the cut on the second stone is no good?

As for paying for the IF diamond...yeah, I am quickly realizing that I can get more bang for my buck - especially in size by moving down in clarity, although I'm not sure I want to go any lower than a VS1-2.

I'm not sure if you saw Julie's link for stone cut, but here is a brief cheat sheet for you. Checking these numbers on any certificate you view (either online or in person) can help you weed out stones that are obviously out of bounds:

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above


And here is the link to the thread in case you want to read a little:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/[/URL]

I must have missed that. This is extremely helpful! Thank you!

You're welcome! I edited it to also include links to the HCA tool. I was once in your place too. There's lots of information and a lot coming at you right now.

 

[wbarnwell]

Alrighty, two new stones found on BlueNile after attempting to use some of the knowledge I have found on this site.

Ideal, .90 SI1 G .07 HCA
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamo...ty_LD02749962?keyword_search_value=LD02749962

Signature Ideal, .90 VS2 G 1.4 HCA
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamo...ty_LD03110598?keyword_search_value=ld03110598

Let me know what you guys think. Both fit within my budget, which is ~6,800 for the whole package.

 

[JulieN]

The Signature is nice but if you are going to pay that kind of premium, I'd rather see you work with Whiteflash, BGD, or GOG, or JA. The generic heads on BN settings could use an upgrade...

 

[wbarnwell]

The Signature is nice but if you are going to pay that kind of premium, I'd rather see you work with Whiteflash, BGD, or GOG, or JA. The generic heads on BN settings could use an upgrade...

Sorry, would you write some of those out? I got JA - James Allen, but not the others. Thanks so much.

 

[bunnycat]

Regarding the stones from BN in the other thread. I gave a quick glance at the numbers, and they surely have potential. Run them through the HCA tool to be sure.

The thing I don't like about BN is it'd be nice to have idealscope images for the stones, which you can't ever get from them. I can't tell if the images on their peformance report are computer generated or not and don't have much time to research it right now.

You can (and should) get idealscope images to post here on potential stones from James Allen or IDJewelry.

Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, Brian Gavin are already going to have these images posted. You are paying extra for that, and for a lot of other legwork that has been done for you in terms of cut quality and performance.

A word to the wise. You want an ideal cut stone, without paying the premium for H/A symmetry and that is fair enough and certainly can be done, but it means you are going to have to do more legwork than if you went with a branded stone that's already pretty much guaranteeing ideal cut specs so be prepared to crunch a lot more numbers if you go this route.

 

[bunnycat]

The Signature is nice but if you are going to pay that kind of premium, I'd rather see you work with Whiteflash, BGD, or GOG, or JA. The generic heads on BN settings could use an upgrade...

ditto. If you are wanting signature- I'd cut straight to the heart of it and go with someone that has stones cut to their specifications, but the second one does look like it has some potential should you want to continue down the BN route, just remember, there won't be an IS image to look at to double check the performance.