In light of COVID delays, requiring a “must deliver by” date on a new order?

[SallyB]

Are any PS members requesting a written stipulation on their jewelry/diamond/gemstone orders that, if the vendor can’t deliver by a certain reasonable date, the order is to be cancelled and a full refund is to be issued to you?

I can understand that delays are almost inevitable now. But it seems a bit unreasonable for vendors to expect full payment up front for a very expensive item and then not being able to deliver for 2 months, 3 months, or more. How long should they be able to hold on to this money?

There is also the very real chance that the vendor could go out of business during this long waiting period, and then we’re out of luck.

With the business world in the state it’s in, the balance of power seems very tipped in favor of the vendors.

Is it time to require changes to these purchase contracts to protect ourselves, or do you feel this is unnecessary?

Feedback from both PS members and trade members is welcome!

 

[anangel]

I would not make a purchase like that with cash right now. I recently make a larger purchase and opted to use my Amex just because I’ve always been very pleased with the level of protection they provide consumers.

 

[SallyB]

Oh, and if you are a trade member, how would you feel about such a stipulation from a customer, and how would you handle it? Thanks.

 

[MWM]

I'm grateful for each and every delivery I receive from my vendors. I'm grateful when they answer the phone.I say please and thank you. I worked to the trade for 25 years. Everything was urgent - whether it was or not.

I don't write orders for folks who have a requested delivery date that I can't be sure to meet. I don't press my vendors for commitments that they can be sure to meet. I'd like to think that my vendors, many of whom I have worked with for decades, and I will continue to work together for many more years to come.

I advise that,if critically concerned about timing, it might be best to wait until the reflection of a world crisis is way back in the rear view.

 

[SallyB]

I would not make a purchase like that with cash right now. I recently make a larger purchase and opted to use my Amex just because I’ve always been very pleased with the level of protection they provide consumers.

I totally agree about not making cash/wire transfer payments now @anangel!

But let’s say it’s been 3 months since you paid up front for a $5,000 custom ring with your Amex. The vendor says he/she has started on the ring, but is waiting for a gemstone from ____ (fill in exotic country). He has no idea when the stone will arrive because there’s a coronavirus outbreak there and the government has shut everything down. On top of that his own bench is only working part-time and next week the governor plans to close all non-essential businesses again because of rising COVID numbers. He’s started on the ring and refuses to refund your $. Would Amex back you up?

And what if the vendor files for bankruptcy or just closes down while you’re trying to get a refund?

I think we’re going to see a lot of these situations unfortunately.

 

[Karl_K]

I dont have a problem with a resonable must deliver date on an order.

 

[anangel]

I totally agree about not making cash/wire transfer payments now!

But let’s say it’s been 3 months since you paid up front for a $5,000 custom ring with your Amex. The vendor says he/she has started on the ring, but is waiting for a gemstone from ____ (fill in exotic country). He has no idea when the stone will arrive because there’s a coronavirus outbreak there and the government has shut everything down. On top of that his own bench is only working part-time and next week the governor plans to close all non-essential businesses again because of rising COVID numbers. He’s started on the ring and refuses to refund your $. Would Amex back you up?

And what if the vendor files for bankruptcy or just closes down while you’re trying to get a refund?

I think we’re going to see a lot of these situations unfortunately.

So, not the bankruptcy situation, but I had one vendor I was working with tell me the diamond was still in India and I decided just to cancel the order. I went with a state side vendor who had a local inventory, and probably paid a premium for it, because I don’t like to wait indefinitely, or like you fear, end up paying for something they cannot deliver.

 

[SallyB]

@MWM Thanks for the response Mark. But one point-your relationships with others in the trade have been cultivated over many years...which is a bit different from a stranger placing an order with another stranger.

 

[SallyB]

I dont have a problem with a resonable must delivere date on an order.

That’s good to hear, @Karl_K.

What do you think is a reasonable “must deliver” date for:

—a diamond/gemstone?
—a custom/semi-custom piece of jewelry?

And how do you think your colleagues/competitors would react to such a request?

 

[Karl_K]

That’s good to hear, @Karl_K.

What do you think is a reasonable “must deliver” date for:

—a diamond/gemstone?
—a custom/semi-custom piece of jewelry?

And how do you think your colleagues/competitors would react to such a request?

Its going to vary based on the company and the business model.
Frankly I dont why it should be a problem on a in house stone and local/in house bench work.
The key is going to be communication.
The stone being in overseas all bets are off on a timeline and the vendor has no control and a timeline would all be luck.

As far as timing I would not have a problem with 1.5x or so the "standard" delivery time.
Say its normally 2-3 weeks, a must deliver date of 4 or 4.5 weeks seems reasonable to me.
The key is getting it in writing.

 

[SallyB]

BTW, this isn’t an entirely academic discussion for me...I’m debating a purchase of a new item that I would really like vs. continuing the hunt for a vintage, less expensive item that could be delivered right away with less financial risk involved but with more aesthetic compromise.

 

[SallyB]

In other words, new vs. used...lol!

 

[SallyB]

Well, I went ahead asked the vendor if they would work with me on this issue. The invoice is for far less than $5000, but for more than I’m comfortable paying up front with an open-ended delivery date. I will let y’all know what they say

 

[SallyB]

Its going to vary based on the company and the business model.
Frankly I dont why it should be a problem on a in house stone and local/in house bench work.
The key is going to be communication.
The stone being in overseas all bets are off on a timeline and the vendor has no control and a timeline would all be luck.

As far as timing I would not have a problem with 1.5x or so the "standard" delivery time.
Say its normally 2-3 weeks, a must deliver date of 4 or 4.5 weeks seems reasonable to me.
The key is getting it in writing.

Good points. Thanks!

 

[soxfan]

Yeah, I'd only buy right now from WF, HPD, VC, and the rest of the OVER-vetted PS vendors. And I'd never demand a done by date. I would feel like my money was in good hands with any of them.

 

[macjr82]

I think JA has a good approach. When I first ordered an ER in April, there production was down. They let me know there would be delays, at that time it was unknown, but they gave me the opportunity to cancel, and also would not charge until they went into production.

I was charged and it went into production, and I recieved the ring about 3 weeks later. About month from when I ordered it.

On their site right now,a s far as diamonds, they denote which stones you can get faster than others.

 

[MsCocoChanel]

Personally I would wait to make a large purchase until you can get a better sense of production time from the vendor. My recent experience is that vendors are offering general delivery ranges on the order of weeks because they are dependent on 3rd parties (i.e. shipping stones from other countries) or they are outsourcing work that cannot be performed locally due to restrictions on workplaces.

Not only may you experience delays upfront but if you have issues once you receive the finished product that require modification or correction you can anticipate an even longer timeframe which would be exasperating.

On a personal note, I recently became fixated with the idea I needed a new watch and ordered from a reputable online vendor. The item was very expensive and there were unanticipated delays in shipping. When I finally received the watch it had not been sized as I had requested and confirmed with customer service prior to the purchase and it was insanely large for my wrist and unwearable. All local boutiques that could service and resize the Cartier were closed. Given that I could not wear the watch in the near future I decided to return it. The eboutique said it may require up to 4 weeks to issue a refund (over 4K!) as the watch needs to be reinspected and they have limited staff inspecting returns currently. Lesson learned about the need for instant gratification.

 

[SallyB]

Personally I would wait to make a large purchase until you can get a better sense of production time from the vendor. My recent experience is that vendors are offering general delivery ranges on the order of weeks because they are dependent on 3rd parties (i.e. shipping stones from other countries) or they are outsourcing work that cannot be performed locally due to restrictions on workplaces.

Not only may you experience delays upfront but if you have issues once you receive the finished product that require modification or correction you can anticipate an even longer timeframe which would be exasperating.

On a personal note, I recently became fixated with the idea I needed a new watch and ordered from a reputable online vendor. The item was very expensive and there were unanticipated delays in shipping. When I finally received the watch it had not been sized as I had requested and confirmed with customer service prior to the purchase and it was insanely large for my wrist and unwearable. All local boutiques that could service and resize the Cartier were closed. Given that I could not wear the watch in the near future I decided to return it. The eboutique said it may require up to 4 weeks to issue a refund (over 4K!) as the watch needs to be reinspected and they have limited staff inspecting returns currently. Lesson learned about the need for instant gratification.

I hope you’ve received your refund @DrCocoChanel!

 

[Karl_K]

Yeah, I'd only buy right now from WF, HPD, VC, and the rest of the OVER-vetted PS vendors. And I'd never demand a done by date. I would feel like my money was in good hands with any of them.

The ones that would most likely have no problem to committing to one are also ones less likely for it to be needed.
Which is why if it makes someone more comfortable they should discuss it with the vendor.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I only deal with inhouse vendors.

 

[MsCocoChanel]

I hope you’ve received your refund @DrCocoChanel!

Still waiting, definitely will never shop with Cartier official eboutique again. Was very disappointed in their customer service for such an expensive purchase.

 

[elizat]

I understand it, but if you are feeling that on edge, I'd wait. As the vendor, you can't control shipping delays and it may be better to hold off. Or perhaps, agree to layaway if they can't ship guaranteed. That way, you aren't out the full money without an item.

 

[SallyB]

Still waiting, definitely will never shop with Cartier official eboutique again. Was very disappointed in their customer service for such an expensive purchase.

Ugh. I hope your refund comes soon!
Thanks for the heads-up about the eboutique.

 

[SallyB]

I understand it, but if you are feeling that on edge, I'd wait. As the vendor, you can't control shipping delays and it may be better to hold off. Or perhaps, agree to layaway if they can't ship guaranteed. That way, you aren't out the full money without an item.

The vendor in question committed to a reasonable delivery time frame, so I purchased from him. I’m glad I didn’t leave the delivery date open-ended. Thanks for everyone’s helpful advice/comments!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I always ask for a estimated completion date in writing just so expectations are clear and I’m not emailing for updates every week if the understanding is it won’t be done until X date. If it’s not done by X then I email. And this has happened before and usually I’m happy to give more time as long as I understand what’s happening and have a new completion date estimate that’s reasonable. I also usually pay in installments.

I’ve only once had to ask for a refund after it was 4 months delayed with no clear delivery date due to production issues. And I got the refund with no problem.