In-house bench Vs CAD + off-site casting?

[OoohShiny]

So, I am in a slight dilemma regarding my desire for getting a custom e-ring made for the other half...


I visited Durrants of Hatton Garden briefly to suss them out, and I liked the guy's no-nonsense style, his cynicism of 'brand label' over-charging, the fact they have an in-house bench (you could hear it out the back!) and that he said they do work for Cartier, Graff and others (so the quality should be good). I also liked the fact they have their cute dogs in the shop with them and that they were happy to set a third party stone.

But... I have the feeling they are busy and I'd have to give them examples of the elements I'd want incorporated and just hope they CAD something pretty and exactly how I want it. I'm not sure if I could make (m)any changes and they also only work in Pt950 of unknown mixture. That said, in-house Bench is said to be better on here, and what he said about working for big name companies indicates the finished article would likely be excellent quality but a reasonable price.


I also stumbled upon a shop relatively locally (way less hassle than getting to Hatton Garden) and I had what must have been a half hour chat with the lovely lady working there. They are also happy to set a third party stone, were open to my suggestion of using a non-standard platinum, she was aware of AGS-graded stones (unheard of over here!) and they operate a fixed-price policy depending on your metal chosen, which seems no-nonsense. Being local, they seem less busy, more approachable, and the lady said she always sits down with a client for as long as it takes to CAD up the desired design face-to-face in front of the screen, which I like the sound of - it would mean I could just tweak things 'just so' and get the design I'm really happy with. There is also no charge for this service, and I could walk away at the end if I decide against it (although moral obligation presumably means most don't!) and she said that what is on screen is what the end product will look like.

However... the CAD designs are emailed off and the rings are cast off-site and then come back to the jewellers for setting by the jeweller himself (who is apparently a Hatton Garden veteran of 15 or more years, who decided to tap a new market away from London) so I don't believe they do any major work on-site.


My dilemma is whether I would be better to go with the potentially less personal, more hassle, less 'perfect' but perhaps better quality of Durrants and their in-house bench?

Or get exactly the CAD design I want (potentially in a better Pt alloy) at the local shop and hope the casting comes out as an exact match?


I have 8 weeks or so to get the end product in-hand so I better choose quickly... lol

Any advice is much appreciated!!

 

[WinkHPD]

My friend, when you get a CAD done your way, the finished piece is going to end up your way, assuming some degree of competence on the jeweler doing the work and the quality of the CAD when it is fed to the rendering machine.

There are several paths that could take. However, again assuming that the CAD is done correctly the rendering should be correct into thousandths of an inch, so there are few surprises.

If you have a complex design in mind and have a CAD artist willing to sit you with you and mix those elements together into a fancy soup that fits your desires, well, I think you would be nuts not to avail yourself of that!

Just my opinion of course, and should the CAD artist turn out to be not as good as advertised you can always head back down the road to Hatton Garden.

Wink

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

If you have a complex design in mind and have a CAD artist willing to sit you with you and mix those elements together into a fancy soup that fits your desires, well, I think you would be nuts not to avail yourself of that!

Well said, Wink.

 

[OoohShiny]

Many thanks for your input, Gents, you make some excellent points!

I can get to the local(ish) place later this week, after a meeting for work, so I think I will put my massive spreadsheet of options I've trawled off the internet onto a memory stick and take it with me!

It's quite scary committing to one design, I don't want to mess it up!

 

[WinkHPD]

Many thanks for your input, Gents, you make some excellent points!

I can get to the local(ish) place later this week, after a meeting for work, so I think I will put my massive spreadsheet of options I've trawled off the internet onto a memory stick and take it with me!

It's quite scary committing to one design, I don't want to mess it up!

Be careful Shiny! By trying to incorporate too many design elements into one piece you could indeed mess it up. It will be interesting to see what your CAD artist can do with your desires. You may end up with something spectacular though, and that will be my wish for you.

Wink

 

[chrono]

CAD is one thing, the final finish is another. I've seen excellent CAD renders but the finish on the actual ring was so poor as to be very different from the CAD. Make sure you've seen actual ring examples from the bench who is putting the finishing touches on the ring before making your final decision.

 

[denverappraiser]

CAD is one thing, the final finish is another. I've seen excellent CAD renders but the finish on the actual ring was so poor as to be very different from the CAD. Make sure you've seen actual ring examples from the bench who is putting the finishing touches on the ring before making your final decision.

I’m with Chrono here. When I do an inspection for a client and it goes back to the jeweler to be fixed, casting, finishing and setting are almost always the problem. Skills vary a lot both in CAD and metal work. The best are not the cheapest. CAD drivers often miss some of the subtleties like good structural engineering or designing it in a way that makes the finishing even possible. They view themselves as artists and they tend to have clean fingers. This isn’t the case with all CAD people, of course, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a rendering that looks very different from the finished product for ‘technical’ reasons that the computer just skated over.

 

[denverappraiser]

A comment on off site casting.

Casting, meaning the process of converting the wax to metal, is actually one of the smaller pieces of a custom project. It’s also one of the more technical. Modern casting is done at very precise temperatures in an argon atmosphere using equipment that costs many tens of thousands of dollars. Superficially it only takes a couple of minutes and the secret has to do with the setup and the tools. It's a subtle skill. This is ripe for an outside service that does it a lot and develops very specialized skills rather than a store that does a couple a week along with everything else they do. I would NOT hold it against them that they’re using an outside service. On the contrary, I would count it as a good sign because most stores don’t have the tools to do it right and doing it 'by the seat of your pants'' produces significantly worse results.

 

[OoohShiny]

Thanks for your kind input, chaps, once again you have given me food for thought!


I take the point that having a dedicated service is likely to be better than a small shop doing a casting once a week, sending it out for casting definitely has benefits in that regard

I do also take the point that finishing is key! I think that's my main concern - whether going locally and spending the time drawing up the CAD will produce a finished article with the sort of high quality finish that I want, or whether I would be better to go with Durrants in London on the basis they appear to be a 'known quantity' quality-wise, but I may not get the exact design I would prefer. I think I will pop into the local shop again later this week when I am in the area for work and ask them more questions regarding finishing / examples of their work / number of designs that come back different due to the aforementioned 'technical issues' /etc.


My thoughts on the design are to keep things plain and simple - the other half is not a fan of bling or ornate jewellery, so there will be no milgrain, no filigree detailing, no pavé... and I originally wanted a tension setting but am instead going to try to achieve a similar look but non-tension, so I am hopeful this will make casting easier and it will look how I would plan!

I think I would like to aim for a simple semi-bezel solitaire setting with a rounded or semi-circular shank (similar to the shape of the red gold/white gold design posted by CvB in the 'Show us your Red, White and Blue favourites' thread before the posts disappeared), tapering as it travels away from the mount, but with a relatively 'wrap around' bezel so the stone is protected, even when the ring is laying on its side on a surface.

That seems pretty simple in my head but it's the subtleties that will require the most work, I reckon - the tapering of the shank, the width and 'chunkiness' of the semi-bezel, whether to finish it flush with the edge of the stone or have it raised slightly to match the height of the table on the stone, whether the stone will look 'dominated'...


It's just annoying that it's not possible to CAD stuff up at home as if I could, it would mean I could just spend evenings tweaking a design to get it 'just right' (and hopefully not design something that has no structural integrity lol). It appears that ring design CAD programs are available from non-reputable sources online, but given the cost of such programs originally, the unlikelihood of anyone in the trade wishing to spend their hard earned money on a program to then share it with the world for free (and so the likelihood that such files are anything but what they claim to be), and the illegality of file sharing in the first place, I would rather not go ahead with such an option!