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Importance of cut for smaller diamond sizes

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JoeA

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
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6
One last question before the big purchase.

Is the cut significantly important for round-brilliant diamonds in the 0.70ct range? In the practical sense, would one be able to distinguish a good cut diamond from an ideal cut diamond in this size range, or is it just a question of better valued item?

Joe
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
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4,357
Oh yeah. .7 is still a significant size and cut quality will be readily apparent. In some ways, it's even more apparent since you won't have the "damn that's huge!" factor to alleviate it.

I bought my mom an unbranded H&A that's just under .5. My mom is no expert, but she immediately saw how much sparklier it was than her 1 carat.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
.70c is not that small of a stone, so yes cut is very important. Cut importance may only be questioned in the very small stones such as the .10c, but even then some cut geeks still want the excellent cuts for those stones!

Many people get stones for e-rings that range from .50-1c so there are many stones in this range that you should be able to choose from that are excellently cut, depending on where you are shopping.

Good luck!
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
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9,144

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On 4/24/2003 11:38:57 AM JoeA wrote:
One last question before the big purchase.

Is the cut significantly important for round-brilliant diamonds in the 0.70ct range? In the practical sense, would one be able to distinguish a good cut diamond from an ideal cut diamond in this size range, or is it just a question of better valued item?

Joe

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Hest is right on the money.....cut is even *more* important in a smaller stone.

Ideal cut stones appear to have more presence visually.....they appear larger to the eye than they actually are. An ideal cut diamond outperforms a "good" cut diamond several times over because of its light return and brilliance, and that difference is completely distinguishable. I'd encourage you to go and view an ideal cut and an average cut diamond side by side....you'll be blown away. There is no comparison.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
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3,441
YES, an Ideal cut in any size looks bigger than a good to well cut diamond of similar carat weight. The smaller the carat weight, the more important a larger appearance becomes.

Just as an example:
When you get in the .75 ct range (which is what you're looking at even though you stated .70), an Ideal cut diamond will look like a 1 carat Maul cut diamond size wise. Someone posted a .75 ct diamond they were considering and based on diameter, Mara said it would look like a 1 carat Maul cut. I found that hard to believe until I was out shopping diamonds one day. A local diamond broker has a 1.06 ct Maul store trade-in that measures 5.85-5.89mm in diameter. That's the same size or smaller than the Ideal cut .75 carat diamond that was posted. The weight I didn't see in the Maul store diamond was lost in an overly deep cut. That's an exaggerated example, and better cut diamond won't be as bad, but I hope you get the idea.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
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7,828
----------------


Hest is right on the money.....cut is even *more* important in a smaller stone.

Ideal cut stones appear to have more presence visually.....they appear larger to the eye than they actually are.
I third that. A small well cut stone will attract attention. Many people do not take the time to find a well cut smaller stone & just buy something at the mall. Focusing on cut is *very* important. My orig. stone is a .70. The stone is a sizzler and was noticed across a room.

Good luck.
 

JoeA

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
6
Thanks a lot for the feedback!
I'm still a little confused..I've been comparing ideal cut diamonds with good cut diamonds (GIA graded) and have a hard time seeing the difference when observing them from a reasonable distance (perhaps 2 feet away) under everyday lighting (outdoors, in a house, etc.).

Maybe I need to get glasses..


Joe
 

Yupi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
74
Just a reminder for you JoeA, GIA cert alone is not enough to assess the cut. The suggestion for you would be to run a Sarin report to know more about the cut. If you read more postings on this link, you may begin to realise CUT is KING.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144

----------------
On 4/25/2003 10:17:20 AM JoeA wrote:
Thanks a lot for the feedback!
I'm still a little confused..I've been comparing ideal cut diamonds with good cut diamonds (GIA graded) and have a hard time seeing the difference when observing them from a reasonable distance (perhaps 2 feet away) under everyday lighting (outdoors, in a house, etc.).

Maybe I need to get glasses..


Joe----------------
Joe, where are you comparing these diamonds? Is it at the mall?

I ask because most of the "maul" diamonds are NOT ideal cuts, even though the salesman will tell you it is. If you were truly viewing excellently cut diamonds side by side with average cut diamonds, there would be no contest. The excellently cut diamond would seem to be ablaze with rainbow colors shooting from it and blinding flashes of white light. When compared to this stone, an average cut diamond will appear dull and lifeless.

Hope this helps.....truly, cut is KING....it is the single most important factor affecting a diamond's performance. No two ways about it.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
A local B&M diamond broker carries "Ideal" cuts that are lifeless. I thought it was her store lighting so I moved near the store front window. Indirect outdoor light didn't help, so I know what you mean by your comments on what you've seen.

Try sitting the diamonds in one place and you move around. Simulate being the person that will be seeing them on the wearer. See if you see flashes of light and color that way. Sometimes that helps to visually judge performance. Candlelight is also a great measure of performance too. That's close to the low light of a restaurant or theater. These are a couple ways I looked at diamonds before I finally decided on the one with the visual performance I liked.

Definitely follow the advise above. Get crown and pavilion angles and plug them into the HCA Cut Adviser. It will help narrow candidates.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144

----------------
On 4/25/2003 12:37:32 PM pqcollectibles wrote:
A local B&M diamond broker carries "Ideal" cuts that are lifeless. I thought it was her store lighting so I moved near the store front window. Indirect outdoor light didn't help, so I know what you mean by your comments on what you've seen.

Try sitting the diamonds in one place and you move around. Simulate being the person that will be seeing them on the wearer. See if you see flashes of light and color that way. Sometimes that helps to visually judge performance. Candlelight is also a great measure of performance too. That's close to the low light of a restaurant or theater. These are a couple ways I looked at diamonds before I finally decided on the one with the visual performance I liked.
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That's exactly the point, though, PQ. A diamond that was truly an ideal cut wouldn't....couldn't....be lifeless. If it is an ideal cut, it has been cut for maximum light return, brilliance, etc.

Joe says he's been comparing ideal cut diamond with good cut diamonds (and he cannot see the difference). If he's making that comparison in person, where is he doing that? Is he at a retailer? A reputable jeweler? A specialty jeweler? A chain store? That matters.

The point is, someone may be telling Joe he's looking at an ideal diamond, but if he's at a chain store (the big Z, for example), their "ideal" diamonds are not what we all here consider as ideal cut diamonds. If it's not really an excellent cut diamond, then it doesn't matter which way he walks around and looks at it...he won't see the difference.

Joe, the best way to make this comparison is to identify a diamond that is truly an excellent cut diamond.....get the Sarin info and plug in the numbers on the HCA, etc. Once you find a diamond that is truly well-proportioned, compare THAT diamond to an average cut diamond. You'll see the difference...believe me. All the experts are not wrong on this one....cut is king.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
RBJD just posted to following in response to a thread by NLUV:

"The more you understand about what constitutes the BEST stones, the more you will begin to understand about why a stone that falls outside the BEST proportions is a little "less" ideal than others.

Remember, to a certain extent, the concept of "Ideal" as it is phrased by the industry is a marketing tool. Yes there are "Ideal" stones, but not every stone marketed as "Ideal" really is. Look at the numbers on the best ones and you will begin to see a pattern."

The diamond broker "said" she carried Ideal cuts. Supposedly I looked at several she had. I didn't look at certs or get further info while I was there. I had found PS and decided I would buy from a PS vendor once I learned what I needed to know to make an informed buying decision. I went to the B&M to see diamonds in person to decide color and clarity rating points. The "Ideal" diamonds she showed me were lifeless, flat, no personality. No amount of moving around in the store or near the window for outside light gave them life. When I got in the car, I thought about it, and, at the time, wrote it off to the store lighting. After seeing 2 gorgeous ACA's from White Flash in person, in my own home under lots of different types of light, I knew it wasn't the store lighting. Guess I didn't completely explain myself. Just reporting what I saw in that shop.


Note as my final comment previously, I also recommended getting the Sarin info and using the HCA Cut Adviser.
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
Three things make any diamond look big & beautiful :


1) You need your diamond to have not a too thick girdle... because it's where your diamond
will carry a lot of extra weight ... for nothing! (remember that even a small
increase in girdle thickness can result in significant loss of what I will call "useful" weigth)

2) Size of the table is very important... Ideal cut diamonds have very small tables..
some people (like me) prefer bigger tables... it will make your diamond look bigger.
for example a properly cut 85 pointer with a 60+ table will have a table the
same size or even bigger than the one of a 1ct ideal cut... be sure however that if you
buy a diamond with a larger table, that the other parameters are OK

3) Brillancy, light return, etc... will blind any observer... and make them unable
to even guess what size your diamond is.....!

Best regards,

Trichome.
 

Yupi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
74
JoeA, have you got an Idealscope ? I've asked about the use of it and the responses from the pros in this forum were good.

Consider investing in one ?
 

MichelleCarmen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
15,880
Okay, just to add a bit of propective. . .my stone is what my jeweler said is ideal and believe me, it IS ideal! Cut is soooo important and so use your eyes rather than a term to dictate the quality of a diamond. Mine is fairly small, only .42, but I get a flood of comments, even from a geology teacher of mine, about how amazing it looks. I've since compared it to a number of other stones at the mall and NONE of them compare, yet still are lumped into the same category as my blazing stone, so be sure to use intuition rather than trust just any old sales person.

Michelle
 
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