Imitation

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:49:48 PM
Author: risingsun

Date: 1/7/2009 7:41:25 PM

Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/7/2009 7:36:18 PM

Author: risingsun

strm~I have not heard you speak out so vehemently about Tiffany, Harry Winston and Cartier reproductions. Why are you claiming design theft in this instance? This ring was not purchased as an original design, IIRC. It was not even bought at SS. Antique reproductions are a segment of the jewelry trade. Do you have an objection to this?

Those designs are under public domain and SG's ring design may also be.

What I am objecting to is saying that if something is posted here it is fair game to copy!

I have no objection to reproducing out of copyright rings.

I have a very strong objection to design theft of rings that are in copyright.

Do you have information indicating that SG's ring is under copyright? Aren't many of the Tiffany, Cartier and HW jewelry under copyright, as well? I have a Cartier Trinity ring and the copyright is on one of the bands. That hasn't stopped other jewelers from selling replicas.

They just haven't been sued yet if it is still under copyright and an original design.
If the copyright has expired then they are ok.

 

[elle_chris]

Just read through the whole thread.. wow just wow.

Also, I had a 5 stone ring made after I saw Kcoursolle and it's an exact copy by Whiteflash. I never thought it would bother her and didn't even think to ask if she'd mind. Since we live on opposite coasts I wouldn't worry about running into eachother but wanted to say, Kcoursolle, if you're reading this, I'm sorry I never asked and you have AMAZING taste!. Thank you for inspiring me to get the same ring. I LOVE IT!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

I think you are right. Are you buying DFIRE?

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

Ha, you don't drink. But in a while I will be happy to play bartender...

That seems to be my job around here, LMAO.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 1/7/2009 8:02:16 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

Ha, you don't drink. But in a while I will be happy to play bartender...

I want a Mai Tai, please

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/7/2009 8:02:16 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM

Author: Kaleigh

Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

Ha, you don''t drink. But in a while I will be happy to play bartender...

That seems to be my job around here, LMAO.

pepsi on the rocks please :}

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/7/2009 8:02:16 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

Ha, you don''t drink. But in a while I will be happy to play bartender...

That seems to be my job around here, LMAO.

you again?

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 1/7/2009 8:04:50 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 8:02:16 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

Ha, you don''t drink. But in a while I will be happy to play bartender...

That seems to be my job around here, LMAO.

you again?

Ok Remy Martin for you DF and a Pepsi for Karl. Who is serving the appetizers? Skippy? You game?

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 1/7/2009 8:03:37 PM
Author: Skippy123

Date: 1/7/2009 8:02:16 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

Ha, you don''t drink. But in a while I will be happy to play bartender...

I want a Mai Tai, please

Ok one Mai Tai coming right up, I hope I get a great tip.....

 

[Skippy123]

Tomato pie

if I get a mai tai!

LOL Coming right up!

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:01:51 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/7/2009 4:53:35 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 1/7/2009 4:16:05 PM

Author: fieryred33143

I wonder if the reaction would be different if the one that is doing the imitation reaches out to the original owner and gives them a heads up?


It seems like those that were inspired by other PS rings and have posted about it on here did reach out to the original owner first which I think is not entirely necessary but definitely appreciated and courteous.

It's a nice gesture, but I don't think it's in any way required and I can see several arguments for not doing so.


What if the person says no? Do they have a RIGHT to say no? Not really.....so you're then in a catch-22 situation. Why should you not have the ring that makes your heart sing just because you weren't the first person on Pricescope to find it?


You could, of course, do it anyway and elect not to post....who'd know, right? But then you'd feel stifled from sharing your joy over your ring. Is that fair? I don't think so....especially when the other party didn't even design it herself!


Perhaps a bit of a reality check would help us all going forward.


1. No one should be under any delusion that there will never be another ring that looks like hers. If you were bright enough to think of that combination of elements, rest assured somebody somewhere will have had that same thought too either in a lifetime before yours, during yours, or after yours.


2. If you purchase a ring from a goneby era, it's probably more likely that you won't run into many (if any) other similar looking rings simply because they aren't as readily available as contemporary designs. That is no guarantee, however; maybe it was the hot style in its day and has several siblings out there. Also, if it was that popular once, it might come back (like the miniskirt

).

That is the most bogus attempt to justify design theft I have ever read.

That it comes from an industry rep is even worse.
I think I will keep a copy to prove willful infringement should it be needed.

You are intentionally trying to suggest an intent in my comments that you KNOW wasn't meant and isn't there just to stir trouble, Storm.....and I ADAMANTLY do not appreciate it.

I've spent more than a decade now in my full-time career working for an organization whose r'aison d'etre is promoting respect for copyright, so I'm acutely aware of what copyright law entails. Nothing I've said above suggests that's OK to infringe on someone else's copyright, and I personally don't believe in it, either.

Further, the company for whom I'm an 'industry representative' here on PS makes NO BONES about it's zero-tolerance approach to copyright infringment, and you know that, too. Perhaps a refresher read would cure your selective amnesia on that:

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds_info/t/faq.aspx?articleid=70&zoneid=6

"We will not copy designer jewelry pieces as they are the creative property of the artist. If you are committed to having a designer piece not of our making we suggest you go ahead and purchase the original. We can create a piece inspired by a style you have in mind, or a design of your own imagination."

Since you prefer to be intentionally obtuse, Storm, let me make it technicolor-clear for you what I meant.

An inspired-by piece likely doesn't require permission as it's not an exact replica, and in the case of an exact replica, you'd have to approach the copyright owner, which is seldom the ring owner.

It's unlikely that there will ever be a time that two people on the planet will not have thought of the same thing. If I'm bright enough to think "hey, I prefer 6-prong settings and I want a 3-stone design, so I should put those together", I'm QUITE CERTAIN I'm not the only soul on the planet with enough cerebral wattage to dream it up. So, it's better to realize that there may be someone else in the world may also be wearing a 6-prong, 3-stone design AND the fact that I'm not the only one doesn't diminish the specialness of my ring. As such, it's better not to delude or flatter one's self into thinking that no one has thought it before. As roundly noted, the overwhelming majority of elements in the jewelry world have already been 'done before'.

In the case of vintage, it's impossible to know how many rings of a given style were produced by the original maker, so buying a vintage piece in no way means you're the only person in the world to own a ring that looks like yours. I'm going to trust this one is self-explanatory, and if it's not, you'll just have to figure it out on your own.

 

[musey]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:26:48 PM
Author: musey
here are the things of mine that have been 'imitated' through PS in the past year:

-2 people have gotten a ring with the same setting as my e-ring made, and cited me as their 'inspiration'
-5 (yes FIVE) people have bought the same wedding necklace that I got, after I posted about my arduous journey to find it (none of them would have seen it if not for me) and my deep love for its uniqueness (yes, it did bother me that that went somewhat out the window, but that's the nature of consumerism)
-and-
-3 people have cited my wedding band as their inspiration to get a thin bezel band

Only one (yup) out of those 10 PSers ever said 'thanks musey!' for inspiring their pieces.

OH, and not a one of them "asked first" as fiery suggested seemed to be the norm. There also was no courtesy "sorry I copied you" from any of them, if I remember correctly. And yet I wasn't really bothered by any of that... so it seems to me that this has little to do with how the copier handles the copy-ee.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:57:42 PM
Author: elle_chris
Just read through the whole thread.. wow just wow.

Also, I had a 5 stone ring made after I saw Kcoursolle and it''s an exact copy by Whiteflash. I never thought it would bother her and didn''t even think to ask if she''d mind. Since we live on opposite coasts I wouldn''t worry about running into eachother but wanted to say, Kcoursolle, if you''re reading this, I''m sorry I never asked and you have AMAZING taste!. Thank you for inspiring me to get the same ring. I LOVE IT!

Elle, as my thread above notes, it''s rare that the owner of a ring also owns the copyright, and that''s true in your instance, too.

Beyond that, KCourselle''s inspired 5-stone ring is part of our regular catalog offering, so no worries.

 

[musey]

PHEW - I just made it through the whole thing. That was a long haul!!

I very much agree with every word Alj wrote, which is not new (she is commonly a voice of reason for me in these forums). I also agree with how deeply disappointing it was when I saw the horrible rain on PT''s parade in her SMTR thread. That was IN NO WAY the time or place to tell her that her inspiration was upset/disappointed/angry or anything else so negative. How truly disgraceful. She handled it gracefully, but you know that had to take away from her joy over her new ring (and by association, engagement).

I''m just a voice in the choir at this point (hmm, imitation?), but I guess I just wanted to throw my two cents in with everyone else''s.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:51:59 PM
Author: Circe


Ah, okay, gotcha. I''m in complete agreement with the thrust of your argument, but I think you have to read Allison D''s post completely outside of the context of this discussion in order to make it. She''s talking about this scenario, not the absolute right to, say, duplicate a Tiffany Legacy down to the last detail on the basis of their ad campaign. Context is critical, right?

Circe, thanks so much for trying to clarify, but don''t sweat it. I''m sure that everyone who wasn''t trying to read ill intent didn''t find any.

And yes, you are right - context IS critical.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:41:25 PM
Author: strmrdr
Those designs are under public domain and SG''s ring design may also be.
What I am objecting to is saying that if something is posted here it is fair game to copy!
I have no objection to reproducing out of copyright rings.
I have a very strong objection to design theft of rings that are in copyright.

There has been no claim that the ring at issue is under copyright.

 

[somethingshiny]

Wow, there are a lot of soap boxes in here.....

 

[FrekeChild]

Alj,

I

you.

Signed most sincerely,
Freke

 

[Gypsy]

OY! My favorite drink is a Bellini but A) I don't think anyone has any frozen white peaches running around to defrost, and B) this calls for hard alcohol.

10 pages. May I please have ... huh, I haven't had hard alcohol in a whiiiiiiiiiiile. Okay, so maybe I have? Does Bailey's on the rocks count? If it does I'll have one of those... if it doesn't, gimme something with some rum.

I'll pass the appetizers.

Canapes, hordourves... whatever... how about caviar on toast points with creme frache, chives, egg, and a little squeeze of lemon? Parma ham and French Charentais melon? or Fruit Skewers dipped in dark chocolate fondue... OH wait, that's dessert, I hate it when that happens, NOT.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 1/7/2009 8:50:09 PM
Author: Gypsy
OY! My favorite drink is a Bellini but A) I don't think anyone has any frozen white peaches running around to defrost, and B) this calls for hard alcohol.

10 pages. May I please have ... huh, I haven't had hard alcohol in a whiiiiiiiiiiile. Okay, so maybe I have? Does Bailey's on the rocks count? If it does I'll have one of those... if it doestn't, gimme something with some rum.

I'll pass the appetizers.

Canapes, hordourves... whatever... how about caviar on toast points with creme frache, chives, egg, and a little squeeze of lemon? Parma ham and French Charentais melon? or Fruit Skewers dipped in drak chocolate fondue... OH wait, that's dessert, I hate it when that happens, NOT.

Oh yum, chocolate fondue.

I think we can find some frozen peaches if there are no fresh.

Gosh a bellini sounds goooooooood!

 

[violet02]

Date: 1/7/2009 8:29:06 PM
Author: musey
PHEW - I just made it through the whole thing. That was a long haul!!

I very much agree with every word Alj wrote, which is not new (she is commonly a voice of reason for me in these forums). I also agree with how deeply disappointing it was when I saw the horrible rain on PT''s parade in her SMTR thread. That was IN NO WAY the time or place to tell her that her inspiration was upset/disappointed/angry or anything else so negative. How truly disgraceful. She handled it gracefully, but you know that had to take away from her joy over her new ring (and by association, engagement).

I''m just a voice in the choir at this point (hmm, imitation?), but I guess I just wanted to throw my two cents in with everyone else''s.

Ditto to what Musey said here.

I feel the same as a lot of folks in regards to my ring. Fine on PS, IRL not so much. But to be honest I got my ring design from someone who had posted a bevy of Singlestone rings on here trying to decide which one they wanted. The ring I got was one of their original designs but also a ring in that posters thread. I don''t think they ultimately got that ring but since it was one of their settings I didn''t think to ask or mention it.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 1/7/2009 7:53:35 PM
Author: strmrdr
They just haven't been sued yet if it is still under copyright and an original design.
If the copyright has expired then they are ok.

Or, it is the idea that is being copied, rather than the expression of it. Intellectual property may not be within my bailiewick, but I did not spend three years at law school for nothing. Is it in yours?

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 1/7/2009 8:03:37 PM
Author: Skippy123

Date: 1/7/2009 8:02:16 PM

Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM

Author: Kaleigh

Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

Ha, you don''t drink. But in a while I will be happy to play bartender...

I want a Mai Tai, please

May I have a margarita--rocks no salt?

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 1/7/2009 9:00:49 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 1/7/2009 8:03:37 PM
Author: Skippy123

Date: 1/7/2009 8:02:16 PM

Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM

Author: Kaleigh

Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

Ha, you don''t drink. But in a while I will be happy to play bartender...

I want a Mai Tai, please

May I have a margarita--rocks no salt?

Yes Mam, coming right up!!!

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 1/7/2009 9:02:39 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/7/2009 9:00:49 PM

Author: coatimundi

Date: 1/7/2009 8:03:37 PM

Author: Skippy123

Date: 1/7/2009 8:02:16 PM


Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/7/2009 7:58:43 PM


Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 7:33:09 PM


Author: Kaleigh


Not at the pie moment yet, LOL!!!

forget the pie...we need some booze!!!

Ha, you don't drink. But in a while I will be happy to play bartender...

I want a Mai Tai, please

May I have a margarita--rocks no salt?

Yes Mam, coming right up!!!

Thanks!!

 

[Circe]

Alj, a pleasure.

And, on the topic of pleasure, I''m putting in an order for a pomegranate martini.

 

[777_LDY]

I have already poured myself a glass of wine (maybe I shouldn''t admit that...). Can I join everyone for drinks?

I feel like singing kumbaya (sp) (probably shouldn''t admit that either...)

 

[Harriet]

Alj,
There is no need to read "ill intent" into Strmdr's post. It is patently manifest, as are other agendum, not necessarily his.

Now will someone please give me cake?

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 1/7/2009 9:25:03 PM
Author: Harriet
Alj,
There is no need to read ''ill intent'' into Strmdr''s post. It is patently manifest, as are other agendum, not necessarily his.

Now will someone please give me cake?

cake mmm.. have a cocount peppridge farm one sitting in my freezer. no good bakeries around here!