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I''m with Lynn B on diamonds! But it''s too overwhelming!

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lovindiamonds

Shiny_Rock
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115
Ok, so I admit that I''ve been a lurker for a week or so, and all of this info is completely overwhelming!!!! My significant other is very confused and nervous about buying a ring and asked for help. We both have different wants for this ring - he wants size (I can''t blame him and won''t be mad at that
) and I want something eye clean and fairly white. I''ve been reading about table, depth, clarity, etc., and it seems that finding the right diamond without breaking the bank is going to be very hard.

Nitty Gritty: I like a round center with pear sides!!!! I tried on one last night and we both loved it! He wants a 2.0 - 2.5 center - although I''m fine with a 1.8-1.9, who''s gonna notice the difference??? He doesn''t care about the rest (except the finances) - where as I would like it to be eye clean but would go down to an SI2 as long as the dealer says it''s eye clean. As for color I tried on an I color last night and I have to honestly say it didn''t have any tint to it at all, it was very beautiful, just the clarity was horrible at an I1, I could see all kinds of inclusions without looking hard (damn mall stores!) As for table, depth, girdle....honestly, you lose me here.

So,,,lastly the budget, he would like to get this all done with the setting and all for between $13,000 and $15,000 - yes I know it seems almost impossible. I know there are going to be some who say to increase the clarity and color and lower the size, but I think it might be a man thing the size
. I''ve read posts from Lynn B who loves her rings with a lower clarity and a bigger size and I think that we''re right with her thinking.

Can anyone help??? I did already contact Mark at ERD and I''m waiting on an email back. I''d truly love help from all you experienced ps''ers!!
 

Sharon101

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
919
Hi there, Im sure you will get some experienced diamond experts here helping you within your parameters. But, its unclear as to what you want. Is your budget for the side diamonds and setting also. If so Im guessing it will be very difficult to achieve all this with your current budget.

I am also a size gal too when it comes to diamonds and my real life experience is that size can be important too. If a large centre stone is important I suggest ditching the extra diamonds at this stage and putting your money into the main stone. You could also go with a vendor with a good trade up policy and buy just under 2 carats as a starting point.

Good luck!
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,620
Date: 2/24/2009 11:13:42 AM
Author:lovindiamonds
Ok, so I admit that I've been a lurker for a week or so, and all of this info is completely overwhelming!!!! My significant other is very confused and nervous about buying a ring and asked for help. We both have different wants for this ring - he wants size (I can't blame him and won't be mad at that
) and I want something eye clean and fairly white. I've been reading about table, depth, clarity, etc., and it seems that finding the right diamond without breaking the bank is going to be very hard.

Nitty Gritty: I like a round center with pear sides!!!! I tried on one last night and we both loved it! He wants a 2.0 - 2.5 center - although I'm fine with a 1.8-1.9, who's gonna notice the difference??? He doesn't care about the rest (except the finances) - where as I would like it to be eye clean but would go down to an SI2 as long as the dealer says it's eye clean. As for color I tried on an I color last night and I have to honestly say it didn't have any tint to it at all, it was very beautiful, just the clarity was horrible at an I1, I could see all kinds of inclusions without looking hard (damn mall stores!) As for table, depth, girdle....honestly, you lose me here.

So,,,lastly the budget, he would like to get this all done with the setting and all for between $13,000 and $15,000 - yes I know it seems almost impossible. I know there are going to be some who say to increase the clarity and color and lower the size, but I think it might be a man thing the size
. I've read posts from Lynn B who loves her rings with a lower clarity and a bigger size and I think that we're right with her thinking.

Can anyone help??? I did already contact Mark at ERD and I'm waiting on an email back. I'd truly love help from all you experienced ps'ers!!
Lynn got a stone with killer specs - and although it is an SI2, it is totally eyeclean. The cut of her stone leaves NOTHING to be desired. She would wholeheartedly support you in finding a stone like hers but it is important to remember that she really sacrificed nothing - she loves the color of her stone, it is superbly cut, and she found a very eyeclean SI2. Those stones are out there - I'd advise you to contact some of the vendors here with your parameters and see what they come up with for you.

What starts out as overwhelming can become more focused when you have some top notch vendors going through their stones and stones available to them to find out what is out there. Then you can start evaluating them stone by stone to find something that fits your bill. Your budget may restrict you in size, color or clarity. If you can, get out and view as many stones as you can - particularly ideal cut stones. Then you will know which of these things is most important to you. The biggest suggestion you'll find here is not to back down on cut quality - a well cut stone can hide many things about size, color and clarity that might otherwise seem glaringly unwanted.

Good luck - we'd be happy to look at any stone you are considering!
 

Sharon101

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
919
Oh yer, just wanted to add that Lynn B is probably not the correct person to compare with because although her clarity may be low on paper (but completely eye clean) the calabre of her diamond`s cut is top notch.

A diamonds cut, is something that you pay extra for, and rightfully so. A better cut diamond takes longer to cut and often takes away more diamond caratage in the process.

So even though Lynn B may have gotten the benefit of a cheaper price for the clarity, she would have paid a significant premium for the cut, which is why her stone also looks so amazing.

The ball is in your court now to see what you are willing to sacrifice to get a particular size. It will depend on how color sensitive, clarity sensitive and sparkle sensitive you are!!!!!!
So you have to do the ground work and look and compare irl.

I personally think you dont need the absolute best cut known to man.....but be mindful about the role that cut plays. When you are on a budget but you want a large stone, I think its ok to sacrifice across the board as long as the end look is pleasing to the eye.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Here are some numbers you can use as a guide to find a well cut round diamond. Also to narrow the field you can look at AGS0 cut grade and GIA Excellent, with these though use the HCA in the first instance to check those that score under 2, these are the ones worth further evaluation with ASET images etc.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!



From expert John Pollard.
As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.


GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,002
Yes, $15,000 for a 2 ct. well cut stone, pear sidestones, and setting is impossible unless you get into the lower than J color and/or I1 clarity territory! I''d start looking at about 1.5-1.9 cts. in G-J color and SI1-SI2 clarity and then look for the setting with pear sides. I''d reserve at least $3000 for the setting with pear sides. That leaves $10-12,000 for the stone. Here are some possible stones:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218714.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131 (ask if it is eyeclean)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5200/
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,002
Date: 2/24/2009 8:01:15 PM
Author: lovindiamonds
Wow! I''m learning already!!

I have been in contact with some vendors already and have gotten some info back.

Here''s one of the first ones I''ve received back....even after all this reading, I''m unsure of the whole depth thing.

What do you think?

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=50850070
I can''t read all the specs on the cert, but I''d pass since the cut grade is very good and not excellent.
 

Mrs W

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
810
I usually would not recommend bluenile stone bc you cant see pics of them or get idealscope pics but these have great HCA scores and are the size you want within your budget

Listed as H&A on GIA report

this one has a bigger table but great HCA so Im sure its still a killer stone
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/24/2009 8:01:15 PM
Author: lovindiamonds
Wow! I'm learning already!!

I have been in contact with some vendors already and have gotten some info back.

Here's one of the first ones I've received back....even after all this reading, I'm unsure of the whole depth thing.

What do you think?

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=50850070
I can't read the report well either, it looks as if the pav angle is 40.2, I would look for one with a PA between 40.6/ 41 as above.

Definitely check out DS's and Mrs W's selections!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/24/2009 8:01:15 PM
Author: lovindiamonds
Wow! I''m learning already!!

I have been in contact with some vendors already and have gotten some info back.

Here''s one of the first ones I''ve received back....even after all this reading, I''m unsure of the whole depth thing.

What do you think?

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=50850070
Depth is easy. For a round brilliant you want to look for between 60 - 62.4% thereabouts, otherwise you can start to lose face up size or spread if you go higher. Lower than 60% and you have a shallower diamond which may look large for the weight but not perform as well.
 

arjunajane

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
9,758
Date: 2/24/2009 1:16:17 PM
Author: Sharon101

I personally think you dont need the absolute best cut known to man.....but be mindful about the role that cut plays. When you are on a budget but you want a large stone, I think its ok to sacrifice across the board as long as the end look is pleasing to the eye.
Sharon, seeing as lovindiamonds is looking to buy over the net and won't have chances to inspect all the diamonds before buying, I don't think its the best idea to suggest looking at average cut stones if you KWIM..
I don't think cut adds that much of a premium to be concerned with (unless its a branded stone like HOF), so clarity and colour are a good place to sacrifice, but not cut. After all, we all know that an average cut big diamond could look the same or smaller than a smaller ct in a great cut, right?




lovindiamonds, if you are cool with an I colour, I would seriously suggest checking out J's and also K's (at least) - once you go below I there can be a decent drop in price, which could help you get the size you're after.
You're definately onto a good thing considering eyeclean SI clarity - as long as this is "mindclean" for you? I have a 1.25 K SI1 - its completely eyeclean, and shows hardly to none tint (dependant on lighting).

There are a couple killers K's around, including member Coatimundi's - I'd be happy to post links for you if you'd like.
Aside from Mark, I would also contact Good Old Gold and High Performance Diamonds and see what Jon and Wink can do for you

good luck!
 

babysteps

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
597
I think trying to accomplish everything you want initially (size of center stone, side stones, setting) could lead to too much compromise overall - if size is key for you both, why not get the biggest stone within your quality parameters of color/clarity/cut and set it simply for now - maximize your budget on the stone. You could do pear sides and a dream setting for an anniversary down the line? There are a lot of options, but I think it is nice to love your center stone
and have it be a ''keeper''. Good luck with the hunt! You will get lots of good advice here.
 

Sharon101

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
919
Date: 2/25/2009 4:25:47 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 2/24/2009 1:16:17 PM
Author: Sharon101

I personally think you dont need the absolute best cut known to man.....but be mindful about the role that cut plays. When you are on a budget but you want a large stone, I think its ok to sacrifice across the board as long as the end look is pleasing to the eye.
Sharon, seeing as lovindiamonds is looking to buy over the net and won''t have chances to inspect all the diamonds before buying, I don''t think its the best idea to suggest looking at average cut stones if you KWIM..
I don''t think cut adds that much of a premium to be concerned with (unless its a branded stone like HOF), so clarity and colour are a good place to sacrifice, but not cut. After all, we all know that an average cut big diamond could look the same or smaller than a smaller ct in a great cut, right?




lovindiamonds, if you are cool with an I colour, I would seriously suggest checking out J''s and also K''s (at least) - once you go below I there can be a decent drop in price, which could help you get the size you''re after.
You''re definately onto a good thing considering eyeclean SI clarity - as long as this is ''mindclean'' for you? I have a 1.25 K SI1 - its completely eyeclean, and shows hardly to none tint (dependant on lighting).

There are a couple killers K''s around, including member Coatimundi''s - I''d be happy to post links for you if you''d like.
Aside from Mark, I would also contact Good Old Gold and High Performance Diamonds and see what Jon and Wink can do for you

good luck!
I never said to look at average cut stones but I think I do know what you mean.

Fwiw, I dont really look to aquire anything `average` in my life, I really love great things, and dont go trying to get others to settle for average either.

And I feel like I know what Im talking about when someone does perhaps want to go bigger in size than they can afford in a top cut. Despite your objections the premium cut does add significantly to the price especially in the larger stones.

I know that once the diamond is being worn some people do want to get to the extra size and may have to go down a small amount in the cut. Its not a choice of only the best and the worst cut....there are diamonds that hold their own perfectly in the real world without having the absolute best cut.

Also I dont think its gospal that a top cut diamond will look bigger and I dont think everyone wants to get a tinted diamond but not touch cut.

The reason I saids to look irl is because it is important to get a feel for what one likes and seeing them irl is very educational as well as seeing what you can get for your money. imo
 

arjunajane

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
9,758
Date: 2/25/2009 6:02:22 AM
Author: Sharon101


Date: 2/25/2009 4:25:47 AM
Author: arjunajane



Sharon, seeing as lovindiamonds is looking to buy over the net and won't have chances to inspect all the diamonds before buying, I don't think its the best idea to suggest looking at average cut stones if you KWIM..
I don't think cut adds that much of a premium to be concerned with (unless its a branded stone like HOF), so clarity and colour are a good place to sacrifice, but not cut. After all, we all know that an average cut big diamond could look the same or smaller than a smaller ct in a great cut, right?
I never said to look at average cut stones but I think I do know what you mean.

Fwiw, I dont really look to aquire anything `average` in my life, I really love great things, and dont go trying to get others to settle for average either.

And I feel like I know what Im talking about when someone does perhaps want to go bigger in size than they can afford in a top cut. Despite your objections the premium cut does add significantly to the price especially in the larger stones.

I know that once the diamond is being worn some people do want to get to the extra size and may have to go down a small amount in the cut. Its not a choice of only the best and the worst cut....there are diamonds that hold their own perfectly in the real world without having the absolute best cut.

Also I dont think its gospal that a top cut diamond will look bigger and I dont think everyone wants to get a tinted diamond but not touch cut.

The reason I saids to look irl is because it is important to get a feel for what one likes and seeing them irl is very educational as well as seeing what you can get for your money. imo
I know, thats why I said "average" - what term would you prefer, medium? I would think between top and bottom levels would be average, no? Not better, not worse..average.
If you were saying to aim for very good cut with promising numbers and good images, that would be a different story, and good advice.
Let's not forget you Did originally Really want a premium cut too, no? I'm not sure what you now have against them..

No, it's not gospel about a well cut diamond and appearance of size, but it is continuously proven by experts and prosumers- and that's enough for me.

You seem to have an agenda, or to prove a point - if this is true, you should do so with a case study or research article- not on newbie's threads.
I don't want to argue with you Sharon, nor hijack lovindiamonds' thread. But I don't like to see unsound advice offered to a new PS'er looking for help, is all.
I hope that you understand, and I will remove myself from this thread now unless I can offer specific help to Lovindiamonds.


my apologies to L.diamonds for the threadjack - I hope you take the advice offered and find a ring you will love!
 

Sharon101

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
919
Date: 2/25/2009 6:37:02 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 2/25/2009 6:02:22 AM
Author: Sharon101



Date: 2/25/2009 4:25:47 AM
Author: arjunajane




Sharon, seeing as lovindiamonds is looking to buy over the net and won''t have chances to inspect all the diamonds before buying, I don''t think its the best idea to suggest looking at average cut stones if you KWIM..
I don''t think cut adds that much of a premium to be concerned with (unless its a branded stone like HOF), so clarity and colour are a good place to sacrifice, but not cut. After all, we all know that an average cut big diamond could look the same or smaller than a smaller ct in a great cut, right?
I never said to look at average cut stones but I think I do know what you mean.

Fwiw, I dont really look to aquire anything `average` in my life, I really love great things, and dont go trying to get others to settle for average either.

And I feel like I know what Im talking about when someone does perhaps want to go bigger in size than they can afford in a top cut. Despite your objections the premium cut does add significantly to the price especially in the larger stones.

I know that once the diamond is being worn some people do want to get to the extra size and may have to go down a small amount in the cut. Its not a choice of only the best and the worst cut....there are diamonds that hold their own perfectly in the real world without having the absolute best cut.

Also I dont think its gospal that a top cut diamond will look bigger and I dont think everyone wants to get a tinted diamond but not touch cut.

The reason I saids to look irl is because it is important to get a feel for what one likes and seeing them irl is very educational as well as seeing what you can get for your money. imo
I know, thats why I said ''average'' - what term would you prefer, medium? I would think between top and bottom levels would be average, no? Not better, not worse..average.
If you were saying to aim for very good cut with promising numbers and good images, that would be a different story, and good advice.
Let''s not forget you Did originally Really want a premium cut too, no? I''m not sure what you now have against them..

No, it''s not gospel about a well cut diamond and appearance of size, but it is continuously proven by experts and prosumers- and that''s enough for me.

You seem to have an agenda, or to prove a point - if this is true, you should do so with a case study or research article- not on newbie''s threads.
I don''t want to argue with you Sharon, nor hijack lovindiamonds'' thread. But I don''t like to see unsound advice offered to a new PS''er looking for help, is all.
I hope that you understand, and I will remove myself from this thread now unless I can offer specific help to Lovindiamonds.


my apologies to L.diamonds for the threadjack - I hope you take the advice offered and find a ring you will love!
No, I dont mean average or medium. I did actually mean a good cut....but I worded this as not needed the best cut. That is the distinction in my mind.

I happen to think this poster would be interested in a bigger carat good cut than a perfect cut smaller stone.

And I dont have a point to prove except to say that people want differant things for their money.

I am completely clear in my mind that a well cut diamond might look bigger than some other cut diamond but this will be factored into the price. With a diamond everything is factored into the price.
 
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