I''m rather fed up with people making slight remarks about Americans!

[Phoenix]

As some of you may know, I'm married to an American - a wonderful man whom I love and respect HUGELY. I also am very fond of his family and have huge respect for them too.

However, some of the people that I come across, some acquaintances and others have from time to time made dispectful remarks about Americans which irritate me. Granted, I'm not extremely upset or angry. I just think that these people are small-minded, politically incorrect and racist. Most of the time, I just shrug it off, but I'll have to admit, sometimes it gets to me. Still, all that I really ever said to them is that they can't go around making generalisations or being rude about people, that are of a particular race or that come from a particular country.

For instance, in my Chinese class, there's this woman (let's call her "X") who - although she knows full well that both I and this other British lady are married to Americans - has made disparaging remarks in front of us about Americans. She doesn't seem to care!

Yesterday, she commented again that "Americans are so stupid"! I wanted *so badly* to remind her that: 1) my husband has a juris doctorate and speaks and writes fluent Chinese; 2) his family are full of doctors and lawyers and PhD holders and two of DH's brothers and his nephew are also fluent Chinese speakers; and 3) despite the fact that this woman X has been in Shanghai for 5 years now, she can barely speak Chinese. But I knew better than utter these feelings to her, so I bit my tongue and kept my mouth shut.

Later on in the afternoon though, there was a moment in class when we were struggling to understand this rather difficult Chinese grammar rule. Upon seeing that the teacher seemed a bit frustrated with us, this woman X said "we're all stupid". I promptly said (before I could even realise what I was saying): "Well, we must all be Americans then!!"

 

[swimmer]

As a Měiguó

I totally hear you.

Just a reminder of something I''m certain you know to be true; those who are most snooty/hateful, are the most jealous!

 

[noelwr]

as a European, yes I also tend to make generalized comments about Americans, but I do it with people of other nationalities that are not American (which doesn't make it right... but we do it anyway). we had an in American working in our department and in our team meetings he would always start his questions with "As the silly American here, I have to ask..." and it would make us all laugh.

I guess Americans are often the subject of conversations because of the media coverage, and also all their tv programs and movies reaching our living rooms and cinemas. it's like you can't escape from them! I'm just being silly as I believe Americans are the best at entertainment and I can't stand to watch tv shows or movies that originate elsewhere.

I loved your comment you made in your class. I think the only thing you can do about this lady X is to either try not to talk to her or tell her, "I don't appreciate your comments."

(interesting fact... we once had a team building event where you find out what kind of personality you have and how that makes you act in a professional environment. one of them is to find out if you are naturally introvert or extrovert. we were first asked if any of us were Americans because apparently the test doesn't work for them as the culture develops them to be extrovert, even though they might naturally be introvert... at least that's what they told us, and having gone to an American school and lived in the U.S., I can understand where they're coming from)

 

[that_someone_special]

I am perplexed by this thread!!!!!!

Some people are just jerks. Damn those smart chinese people!!!

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 12/18/2009 6:16:34 AM
Author: swedish bean
I am perplexed by this thread!!!!!!

Some people are just jerks. Damn those smart chinese people!!!

Oh no, I think there might have been a slight misunderstanding, SB.

This woman X is not Chinese. I don't want to mention her race/ where she comes from, because that is irrelevant and because it matters not to me.

 

[noelwr]

do you live in Phoenix? I am going to visit there for the first time in Feb. maybe some time you can give me good tips on things to do there? (ok, sorry to hi-jack your thread)

 

[that_someone_special]

Oooh.. the plot thickens!

I was just kidding anyways.

I do think that stereotypes play a huge part in how we view others. I wonder if she has not been around many Americans? (Or maybe just the wrong ones? lol)

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 12/18/2009 6:24:56 AM
Author: noelwr
do you live in Phoenix? I am going to visit there for the first time in Feb. maybe some time you can give me good tips on things to do there? (ok, sorry to hi-jack your thread)

He he, PSers ask me this all the time.

I don''t live in Phoenix, sorry.

No worries at all.

Thanks for your input above.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 12/18/2009 6:25:37 AM
Author: swedish bean
Oooh.. the plot thickens!

I was just kidding anyways.

I do think that stereotypes play a huge part in how we view others. I wonder if she has not been around many Americans? (Or maybe just the wrong ones? lol)

Oh sorry, I totally missed your joke! and there I was thinking I had a wicked sense of humour (not that it comes out often enough on PS).

I have no idea what her experience with Americans has been, but regardless, her behavious is rather appaling. I do agree with you that some people are real jerks.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 12/18/2009 5:40:57 AM
Author: swimmer
As a Měiguó

I totally hear you.

Just a reminder of something I'm certain you know to be true; those who are most snooty/hateful, are the most jealous!

Ooohhh, you speak Chinese!! I'm impressed.

I'm just surprised at how often this woman X expresses her negative thoughts about Americans! The funny (strange, not ha ha) thing is that she's actually very good looking, seems rather well off, appears happily married and has two adorable little boys. I don't know what she's got to complain about, really.

 

[Porridge]

I think every nation gets generalised. Foreigners always think its hilarious to ask me if I''m drunk, or whether I enjoyed my whisky breakfast or something like that. The French get called rude and smelly, the Italians get branded as loud and passionate etc...Americans got landed with stupidity! I would blame tv, specifically the Simple Life

But of course, I''m not a raging alcoholic, and this board is severely lacking in stupidity considering the predominately American population here!
Ignore her ironically stupid remark. It was rude, and you hit her with a good comeback!!!

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Unfortuantely, national stereotypes are still strong all over the world. I have learned to not mention my nationality when abroad, otherwise I am immediately seen as an easy s*** (I hate the word, but it conveys the meaning very well here). Since Americans have such an impact on the world today (political, economical and cultural), I think there is just too much opportunity to air these nasty thoughts.

 

[swimmer]

Date: 12/18/2009 6:35:22 AM
Author: Phoenix

Date: 12/18/2009 5:40:57 AM

Author: swimmer

As a Měiguó

I totally hear you.


Just a reminder of something I''m certain you know to be true; those who are most snooty/hateful, are the most jealous!

Ooohhh, you speak Chinese!! I''m impressed.


I''m just surprised at how often this woman X expresses her negative thoughts about Americans! The funny (strange, not ha ha) thing is that she''s actually very good looking, seems rather well off, appears happily married and has two adorable little boys. I don''t know what she''s got to complain about, really.

Thanks! I adore China and am so jealous of you in Shanghai. Even though the Shanghainese "sh" sounds are hard for me it is one of my favorite cities, such an interesting international blend.

Good to hear that she seems to have everything going for her...but it doesn''t matter if someone is Chinese or even perhaps Canadian, bashing another''s culture is declasse and shows true colors of jealousy. Even if the jealously is subconscious

 

[Bia]

Date: 12/18/2009 6:48:41 AM
Author: Porridge
I think every nation gets generalised. Foreigners always think its hilarious to ask me if I'm drunk, or whether I enjoyed my whisky breakfast or something like that. The French get called rude and smelly, the Italians get branded as loud and passionate etc...Americans got landed with stupidity! I would blame tv, specifically the Simple Life

But of course, I'm not a raging alcoholic, and this board is severely lacking in stupidity considering the predominately American population here!

Ignore her ironically stupid remark. It was rude, and you hit her with a good comeback!!!

I'd rather be branded a raging alcoholic than a stupid idiot!

Try not to take it personal Phoenix, and in the meantime, think of a great comeback for the next time...because there will be a next time

 

[lilyfoot]

Lady X: "Americans are stupid"
Phoenix: "Yeah well, what''s your excuse?"

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/18/2009 8:54:22 AM
Author: Bia

Date: 12/18/2009 6:48:41 AM

Author: Porridge

I think every nation gets generalised. Foreigners always think its hilarious to ask me if I'm drunk, or whether I enjoyed my whisky breakfast or something like that. The French get called rude and smelly, the Italians get branded as loud and passionate etc...Americans got landed with stupidity! I would blame tv, specifically the Simple Life

But of course, I'm not a raging alcoholic, and this board is severely lacking in stupidity considering the predominately American population here!

Ignore her ironically stupid remark. It was rude, and you hit her with a good comeback!!!

I'd rather be branded a raging alcoholic than a stupid idiot!

Try not to take it personal Phoenix, and in the meantime, think of a great comeback for the next time...because there will be a next time

Ha, true! And it's not a shock to me that people in other countries think Americans are stupid, particularly if all they're exposed to are our media and politics. Jersey Shore and George W. Bush anyone?

 

[anchor31]

Well, Phoenix, these women prove that there are stupid people everywhere, don''t they?

I must say that people from the province of Québec usually don''t have a very shiny reputation abroad either... Especially in Mexico, a popular travel destination, where we are called "los tarbernacos". "Tabernacle" being a French Canadien swearword... well, it''s not very flattering. Canadians have a reputation for being polite, but I''m afraid it''s not based on the general population of "la belle province".

 

[Squirrly]

Date: 12/18/2009 6:48:41 AM
Author: Porridge
I think every nation gets generalised. Foreigners always think its hilarious to ask me if I''m drunk, or whether I enjoyed my whisky breakfast or something like that. The French get called rude and smelly, the Italians get branded as loud and passionate etc...Americans got landed with stupidity! I would blame tv, specifically the Simple Life

But of course, I''m not a raging alcoholic, and this board is severely lacking in stupidity considering the predominately American population here!
Ignore her ironically stupid remark. It was rude, and you hit her with a good comeback!!!

lol i''d just respond with whiskey? heck no, i''m mostly german with a side of scott and brit, bring on the beer and don''t make me mad

but then when you think about it, most states/cities/regions have their own view about people who don''t live within a 100 mile radius or so, so one way or another we''re going to be called just about everything. but i''m just i backwards midwesterner so i could be wrong.

on a serious note, my college has a campus in england and when some of my friends went over, they jokingly referred to themselves as ''stupid americans'' at a pub, and two old gentlemen that often happened to be at that pub almost as often as my friends quickly told them never to call themselves that and gave them a bit of a talk about how they should be proud to be americans.

i think if said jokingly, especially by the person of that nationality, things like ''stupid american'' are used more so just to poke fun at the stereotype that''s commonly held, but regardless of the stereotype, if said spitefully, well really there''s no reason for spiteful comments regardless of what the comment is.

 

[kama_s]

Date: 12/18/2009 9:38:33 AM
Author: anchor31
Well, Phoenix, these women prove that there are stupid people everywhere, don't they?

I must say that people from the province of Québec usually don't have a very shiny reputation abroad either... Especially in Mexico, a popular travel destination, where we are called 'los tarbernacos'. 'Tabernacle' being a French Canadien swearword... well, it's not very flattering. Canadians have a reputation for being polite, but I'm afraid it's not based on the general population of 'la belle province'.

When we were in the French Polynesia for our hmoon earlier this year, people LOVED us. My husband is from Montreal, so he speaks fluent french...everyone in FP would comment 'Ahh, you are from lovely Quebec'! Or, they would love the fact we're Canadians and point out to their Skidoo or ATV and say 'We love Canadians. They make Bombardier. Bombardier is the best'. I'm sure *I* played a direct role in making that Skidoo you can't part with!

Phoenix: I hear you. Everytime I go visit family in Dubai/India, people talk about how *insert expletive* Westerners and those damn Americans (btw, Canada = America for them). And mostly always it's based on unfounded assumptions, or things they watch on the telly. I nearly always want to retort back that we think the exact same about them...not that it would help make things better.

 

[vespergirl]

I am a first generation American, and my parents are immigrants from Eastern Europe. Even though it was always their dream to live here, they still have lots of problems with the culture. I often remember as a teenager if I didn''t behave as demure as a peasant village girl, my mother would criticize me for acting like a "stupid American." This from a woman who lived in a refugee camp for 5 years waiting to come here, and who became a naturalized citizen as soon as possible. I think that from many immigrants'' perspectives, they love the freedom and opportunity, but hate the permissive, and what they perceive to be uncouth, culture.

 

[elle_chris]

Crete, Greece- Woke up right before dinner and was exhausted. We were seated at the Hotel''s outdoor restaurant. Beautiful night, lovely sunset and I made the "mistake" of asking for coffee prior to ordering dinner. The waiter looks at me confused, and an older British lady at the table next to us goes "Only an American would request coffee before dining". WTH?

Krakow, Poland- Went to an interesting looking college bar where we were told the students, professors and the like hangout. Sitting at a table, a couple of brits over hear us speaking English. Come over, we have a few drinks, exchange a few stories. Everyone''s having a good time. As we''re walking out we hear "Ugh, Americans. We don''t need your dollars". mhm.. ok.

Gijon, Spain- Flew in for a friends wedding. At the reception we''re sitting at the bride and grooms table. Everyone''s enjoying themselves, dancing, drinking etc. A Spanish lady sitting to the right of me turns around and goes to her husband in very good english "See, not all Americans are rude". I just smiled..

Phoenix- Stupidity is everywhere.

 

[Diamond*Dana]

Date: 12/18/2009 11:21:40 AM
Author: elle_chris
Crete, Greece- Woke up right before dinner and was exhausted. We were seated at the Hotel's outdoor restaurant. Beautiful night, lovely sunset and I made the 'mistake' of asking for coffee prior to ordering dinner. The waiter looks at me confused, and an older British lady at the table next to us goes 'Only an American would request coffee before dining'. WTH?


Krakow, Poland- Went to an interesting looking college bar where we were told the students, professors and the like hangout. Sitting at a table, a couple of brits over hear us speaking English. Come over, we have a few drinks, exchange a few stories. Everyone's having a good time. As we're walking out we hear 'Ugh, Americans. We don't need your dollars'. mhm.. ok.


Gijon, Spain- Flew in for a friends wedding. At the reception we're sitting at the bride and grooms table. Everyone's enjoying themselves, dancing, drinking etc. A Spanish lady sitting to the right of me turns around and goes to her husband in very good english 'See, not all Americans are rude'. I just smiled..


Phoenix- Stupidity is everywhere.

American here...and I could not agree more.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

When I go back to China, people ask me stereotypical questions about America and Americans. (Are they mostly fat and lazy? Do they fry all their food? Do they all support GWBush.)

When I am in the US, people ask me dumb stereotypical about China and Chinese people. (Are we all good at math, are we genetically bad at driving, do we eat dogs, and some more awkward bedroom related questions)

 

[TravelingGal]

From an International/traveling perspective, yes, Americans are known for being rude and stupid. While this isn''t entirely fair, it does have some merit. Most of it is born out of ignorance - and by ignorance, I don''t mean dumb...I mean they simply don''t know some things culturally (although all the research can be done beforehand.)

Americans generally are a smiley bunch when they go abroad. Smile a lot in France? They''ll wonder why you smile so much and wonder if you''re an idiot. We speak loudly. We make a lot of comparisons about "back at home it''s done *this* way.

We''re also a country of 300+ million people so there are just more of us about. And we''re one of the few countries in the world that is so large, you can drive for days and days and days and still be in the same country. We''re egocentric - not that the world revolves around us, per se, but that all we know IS our world because there''s no reason for many Americans to know otherwise.

Stereotypes exist FOR A REASON. *I* am one of the real reasons why asian women drivers are pegged as bad. I have real spatial problems! When I traveled through Europe, I met many nice Americans but easily HALF of the ones I met were really really culturally obtuse...and many of these were backpackers who usually do a better job than quick vacationers in learning and observing culture. And then there are some who just give a bad name...like the American I met at a hostel in Florence. She had just come from the greek islands and gotten horrendous weather. I had amazingly good weather follow me for months during the winter months and I told her that hopefully my luck would hold up and she would get nice weather while we were both in Florence and that I would get nice weather in greece (where I was heading toward in a few weeks).

She looked at me and said, (I swear, this is verbatim) "Well, I hope you don''t. No offense, but if I couldn''t get good weather, I don''t want you to have it either."

In all my life, I haven''t heard anything so unbelievably whacked before or since. This is within FIVE minutes of meeting her! The Australian gal I had just met and I were standing there with our mouths gaped open and the Aussie suggested she and I leave so we didn''t fuel the fire further. Aussie girl and I are still good friends to this day.

 

[sunnyd]

Ditto TGal.

Every country has their own stereotypes. America has a million of them for all other countries. Being a Canadian (French-Canadian even) living in the States, I''ve heard it all. We live in igloos, drink beer and play hockey. Oh, and say "eh" after every word. Unless they''re completely serious, who cares? Throw something back at ''em! Stereotypes will never not exist, so you have to let the jokes roll off your back.

 

[partgypsy]

The ironic thing, the one time I traveled abroad in Europe, I certainly heard locals make comments about 'ugly Americans" but not to me, because no one took me for an American! And yes I was speaking English. In Scotland they thought I was German. In France they thought I was British (English). In the Netherlands they thought I was native (I kept having people stop me to ask directions in Dutch). Actually I have to correct that. In Italy I believe they thought I was American, but only from their hand /body language as I couldn't understand what they were saying. One time having a conversation with someone at the French Riveria and when conversation steered to nationalities a local person said almost as an apology, "Americans are not the worst tourists - Germans are!" gesturing towards the overweight nudist Germans right below us on the beach.

So, I think there are plenty of perfectly normal non-egocentric American travelers around the world, but it's the hawaiin shirt/fanny-pack plastic-shoe-wearing Americans asking directions to the McDonalds who get noticed.

 

[LGK]

Date: 12/18/2009 5:46:53 AM
Author: noelwr
as a European, yes I also tend to make generalized comments about Americans, but I do it with people of other nationalities that are not American (which doesn''t make it right... but we do it anyway). we had an in American working in our department and in our team meetings he would always start his questions with ''As the silly American here, I have to ask...'' and it would make us all laugh.

I guess Americans are often the subject of conversations because of the media coverage, and also all their tv programs and movies reaching our living rooms and cinemas. it''s like you can''t escape from them! I''m just being silly as I believe Americans are the best at entertainment and I can''t stand to watch tv shows or movies that originate elsewhere.

I loved your comment you made in your class. I think the only thing you can do about this lady X is to either try not to talk to her or tell her, ''I don''t appreciate your comments.''

(interesting fact... we once had a team building event where you find out what kind of personality you have and how that makes you act in a professional environment. one of them is to find out if you are naturally introvert or extrovert. we were first asked if any of us were Americans because apparently the test doesn''t work for them as the culture develops them to be extrovert, even though they might naturally be introvert... at least that''s what they told us, and having gone to an American school and lived in the U.S., I can understand where they''re coming from)

Interesting. Could be why I felt like I was from a different planet all through school

I remember them giving that test to my class in 8th grade, and of course out of 35 or so I was the only introvert, and the teacher apologized to me; apparently he felt it was some sort of handicap or something!

 

[elle_chris]

In Italy, I found them louder than any american i''ve ever met, and the guys to be very obnoxious. They had no problem staring even when I was walking hand in hand with my husband. I felt like a piece of meat on display.

When I had some German friends visit here, they ordered wine at a restaurant. You know how when they pour the first glass you taste it, but just to see if it''s sour? Well, they didn''t know that. They went through 3 bottles, and our Sommelier looked very annoyed. When our friend got the 4th bottle, I finally asked what exactly what wrong. He said he didn''t like the firsts three

. I explained that they''re only letting him taste it first to make sure it hadn''t gone bad. NOT to see if he likes it. Apparently no one at the table (none of the Germans) knew about this. These are educated Germans who see themselves as well traveled with an understanding of various cultures. Also terrible tippers. (so much for reading up on the country you''re traveling to).

My friend from Spain and her Austrian husband see nothing wrong with referring to their friends not by name, but by nationality. It drives me crazy. I know these people and they have names. Stop referring to me as the American, to Alice as your kiwi friend and on and on. They see nationality before people. This was very common with the Austrians I''ve met. Her husband (they live in Vienna) told me how he dressed up in black face for halloween one year. He thought nothing of it. He never even thought it might offend someone. I was horrified. What can I say? Nothing.

In Poland, all I kept hearing is how everyone''s stupid, everyone''s an idiot, the germans are horrible but at least hitler got rid of the jewish ghettos (yes, someone said that to me), and on and on it goes.

My point is that I''ve had enough experiences with people from other places that were less than stellar. But me, the dumb american who voted for bush (i didn''t but that''s what people think), still won''t stereotype other cultures because I understand that even if I met hundreds that all acted the same, I''m still hoping that millions more won''t.
But for some reason, it''s usually the American that gets the worst of it. Right, because intolerance, rudeness, and stupidity, are perfectly acceptable. Provided it''s not an American of course.

 

[zipzapgirl]

Phoenix, I feel for you! I lived in Europe for five years, part of which was during the time when Bush was reelected. It was hard to deal with the bitterness that sometimes got directed towards me for no reason--even if my political views were the same as theirs!

I took that time and really started to focus on what makes America good and where I wanted to be different than most Americans. I kept a few of the advantages to living in the USA in my mind, so that if I got pulled into a situation, I could have a bit of a reply. Some of the really good ones were the adventurousness of Americans, the diversity, the things that you can do in America (you can snowski, go to various beaches on two coasts, a grand canyon, desert, and see 4 different ecosystems within the 50 states!), and the raw opportunity that this country provides. There are so many immigrants to this country because they know that they can make a better life for themselves here.

Then I thought about some of the criticisms of Americans and why they might be true. Americans are horrible at geography, but I''ve never personally had a geography class in school and I don''t think it is a focus for most schools. Americans aren''t avid travellers, but as I mentioned above, there is so much to do in the USA and travel can be pricey. Add that to the fact that most people get 2 weeks vacation (and many live away from home, so spend some of that time visiting family), it begins to make sense why. It''s interesting how when you start breaking these things down and explaining them in this manner, people start to understand. Especially the Europeans, who then start to feel very sorry for us with their 6 weeks vacation

The best advice I can give is just to feel out the situation and see if you can have any sort of civil discussion with the person. If so, you can share the insights you have about the things I mentioned above. If not, a little humor is the best policy, and change the subject quickly.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Just a cultural insight from a Chinese person:

I think another reason in China for the "stupid American" stereotype is that compared to the Chinese school systems, the American ones are "easy" on students. They tend to think China is the more academically stringent country, and to a degree, they are correct in that the pressure and prestige related to doing well in school is extremely high there. There are relatively few colleges there compared to the US, and children start taking aptitude tests in middle school in order to apply to high schools. College applications are nationalized and basically consist of your test scores, and the competition is much more intense and rigorous than in the US. In China, you never really hear things like "It's ok, not everyone gets A's", it's more like "You will get A's or your life will be miserable".

I think the fact that America as a country doesn't stress academic competition as much and most students can go to college if they want due to the number of community colleges, kind of gives some Chinese people the impression that as a country, America isn't as "smart". Personally in my family, I've had cousins seek schooling in Canada and England because they wouldn't have been able to get into a good enough college in China to be competitive in the job market after they graduated. And believe me when I say the academic competition and white collar job competition there is fierce. I attend an Ivy League medical school here in the US, so I'm no stranger to competition, but I think I would have suffered a nervous breakdown trying to make it into an elite institution in China.

The sad thing is, most Chinese people think the system works and produces the best and brightest. But personally, in comparing stories with my cousins who grew up there, it really seems just to stifle creativity and turn kids into cynical and bitter stress balls. I love that the American education system values more than just test scores. But that's a different rant.

Anyways, just thought I'd add that in because honestly, although not everyone there thinks all Americans are dumb, there is a widespread belief in China that it's easier to be "dumb" in America because you can still lead a comfortable life without a Harvard diploma.

And there's definitely a jealousy component. The rights and opportunities we enjoy, the freedom we have to chase our own happiness, the social safety nets in case we stumble, it's something to be envious about. I used to be angry that my cousins would belittle my accomplishment in school because "oh, it's so much easier in America", but it's hard to be mad at them knowing how tough it can be there.

ETA: Also, shows like Paris Hiltons' The Simple Life don't exactly help either.
ETA2: I once had a woman confide in me that she prefers Asian physicians because we are smarter and have better hygiene...I really didn't know how to react to that.