If you were to buy a round solitaire...

[Lorelei]

• Date: 7/3/2009 5:09:23 PM
  Author: FB.
  Lorelei
  
  I don't recall any people being pressured into any particular diamond, but it felt as if the whole culture of this forum was skewed towards looking only for ideal-cut stones - and that unless it had a HCA score of 1, the stone would be a dull, lifeless pebble that would be poor value for money. Actually it really isn't, yes we do see many superideal diamonds up for discussion but more and more we are seeing fancy shapes and the simply well made round diamond.
  If I only followed the information that seemed to 'sink in' from reading this forum, I would (honestly) feel that I should buy a diamond with the following specification:
  
  Cut grade: AGS 0 Ideal
  HCA score: 0.5
  Colour: I
  Clarity: SI2
  
  Yes lower colour and clarities are popular, but also we do respect the choices of others if they want a colourless diamond, very high clarity etc. Here is a current thread where a poster prefers a flawless diamond and has two up for consideration.
  
  https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-need-advice-on-g-round-brilliant.118698/
  
  I appreciate that cut is important, but it feels as if everything else is severely scaled-back, virtually to an 'all or nothing' principle.
  I would feel that colour and clarity were so unimportant that they could almost be ignored and that, so long as the cut was 'ideal', the stone would look superb. Not the case.
  
  I appreciate that many people here know their stuff in great detail, but sometimes people get fixated in certain issues. Maybe sometimes, issues arise as in anything and we do strive to cater for all. Maybe some more than others keep this at the forefront of their minds, we are a diverse group who often work in different ways but the common aim is the same - to help those buying a diamond.
  An example: I am a keen gardener.
  I planted a mini-orchard some years ago. I read lots and got lots of opinions. The 'experts' had a phobia of diseases called scab and canker, and had no regard for a disease called mildew.
  As it happens, all the experts over-stated the effect of some diseases and under-stated the effect of others - based on their bad experiences that had stuck in their mind more clearly than their good experiences.
  As it turned out, the 'expert' recommendations turned out to be utterly wrong for my environment; I lost trees to mildew and rarely see any scab or canker.
  
  Most posters aren't experts, this is primarily a consumer forum.
  
  

To an extent I do see what you are saying that can happen however the more experienced posters do try to keep an eye on things as well as the moderators to try to keep things going in the right direction. Like I say this isn't an easy path for us to travel and as strm said the other day when a great deal of other people's money is at stake, we can't afford to gamble. For the posters seeking advice as with anything and particularly as huge sums of money can be involved, it is important for them to understand where any advice offered is coming from and do their due diligence in making sure the advice is sound. After all anyone can sign up here and start offering advice.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 7/3/2009 4:59:19 PM
Author: polk084
It seems like the majority favor getting a really nice cut, then ''sacrificing'' on color and clarity.

There are lots of regular posters who haven''t chimed in here who would sacrifice size for higher color. I think the overwhelming sentiment is that color is a subjective variable, so to each their own. But yes, many of us go lower in color to maximize size. For many people, I think once you have lived with a lowe color diamond for a while the color doesn''t matter one bit, especially in ideal cuts. But there are also a number of people who had lower color stones for a while and traded them in for smaller higher color ones, or spent more to get a higher color. Lower colors are NOT for everyone, you really need to go see ofr yourself to determine whether you like lower colors or not, because a J doesn''t look at all like an E.

Same holds for clarity... most people don''t care as long as you can''t see it, but there is the issue of *knowing* the inclusions are present and that bothers many people. So lots of people look for a "mind clean" stone that they know is eye clean without having to really look! Again, this is a personal preference. VS2 is an oft chosen clarity because it is both eye clean and mind clean.

 

[FB.]

polk084


I am less well-informed and less experienced with diamonds than many on this forum, so my views may still need time to evolve.....

A very good cut will match an excellent cut in most light conditions. There will be some light conditions where the lower cut grade is detectable.
An I colour will match a D colour in most light conditions. There will be some light conditions where the lower colour grade is detectable.

I''d say that cut has twice the importance of colour and that clarity is as important as colour.
Cut: 50%
Colour: 25%
Clarity: 25%

I think that if I was going to pay a lot of money for a large stone, I would be more cautious on cut and go for ideal. My mutterings earlier about cut being over-rated were mainly directed at the low-middle part of the market, where a Very Good stone will perrorm well for those people.

Because it''s such a large and valuable stone that will be bought, I would look for an ideal cut with G colour and VS1 clarity.

 

[FB.]

dreamer

If I hadn''t been reading the postings on here, I would not have felt inferior.
At this time, I feel awful for having bought anything lower than "ideal" AGS 0 cut grades.
I did not feel this way a couple of months ago - the stones look great - but reading here has made me feel that AGS 0 /HCA 0.5 is the only way to go and that everything else should be sacrificed to get that AGS 0 / HCA 0.5.

I didn''t come here to cause trouble, so I''m going to back off for a while.

 

[glitterata]

Hi, Polk--

Personally, I would get the biggest E-G (maybe H) color, eye-cleanish SI1-I1 Good Old Gold signature Old Mine Cut with very strong blue fluorescence they had in my price range.

link

(If that E I1 had very strong fluorescence, I would buy it tomorrow.)

If they didn''t have anything suitable, I would ask them to find some high color, not-very-high clarity, extremely strongly blue fluorescent rough and cut a signature OMC out of it, just for me.

In fact, when I win the lottery, that''s what I''m going to do.

BUT, this is my particular, passionate, probably somewhat unusual taste. What I think YOU should do, if you don''t currently see the differences among cuts and colors, is buy the largest eye-clean VS2-SI2 ideal or near-ideal G-I round you can find from a trustworthy vendor, following their advice about cut. That way if you find yourself able to discern differences later on, after you''ve lived with your diamond for a while, you probably won''t be disappointed in it, but you won''t have spent a lot extra on qualities that don''t matter to you.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 7/3/2009 5:51:45 PM
Author: FB.
dreamer

If I hadn''t been reading the postings on here, I would not have felt inferior.
At this time, I feel awful for having bought anything lower than ''ideal'' AGS 0 cut grades.
I did not feel this way a couple of months ago - the stones look great - but reading here has made me feel that AGS 0 /HCA 0.5 is the only way to go and that everything else should be sacrificed to get that AGS 0 / HCA 0.5.

I didn''t come here to cause trouble, so I''m going to back off for a while.

Well I''m sorry you feel that way. All of us were newbs at one point who found PS and most of us bought diamonds pre-PS as well that are not "super ideal." I bought stones like that before PS... and I can definitely see the difference between them and my AGS0 stone. But that doesn''t make me feel inferiour, I didn''t know any better! And if I loved those diamonds I really wouldn''t care what people here said! Nope, what irks me about my pre-PS purchases is that I paid too much for them. You probably did too. So if you want to obsess about something, obsess on that. It is much more meaningful thing to focus on than the fact that all the other kids are judging your diamonds

I hope you stick around! Always good to have new faces. You''ll learn a lot, maybe have some fun, and maybe make some friends!

BTW: an HCA score need only be less than 2

It is an absolute value -- greater than 2 bad, less than 2 good -- not an incremental value.

 

[Siamese Kitty]

Date: 7/3/2009 5:23:26 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 7/3/2009 4:59:19 PM
Author: polk084
It seems like the majority favor getting a really nice cut, then ''sacrificing'' on color and clarity.

There are lots of regular posters who haven''t chimed in here who would sacrifice size for higher color. I think the overwhelming sentiment is that color is a subjective variable, so to each their own. But yes, many of us go lower in color to maximize size. For many people, I think once you have lived with a lowe color diamond for a while the color doesn''t matter one bit, especially in ideal cuts. But there are also a number of people who had lower color stones for a while and traded them in for smaller higher color ones, or spent more to get a higher color. Lower colors are NOT for everyone, you really need to go see ofr yourself to determine whether you like lower colors or not, because a J doesn''t look at all like an E.

Same holds for clarity... most people don''t care as long as you can''t see it, but there is the issue of *knowing* the inclusions are present and that bothers many people. So lots of people look for a ''mind clean'' stone that they know is eye clean without having to really look! Again, this is a personal preference. VS2 is an oft chosen clarity because it is both eye clean and mind clean.

Guilty as charged! I''m glad someone said this...

For that budget, I''d be looking at D-G VS1-SI1.

I had an I. A GORGEOUS ACA AGS000 I. It stopped traffic and got tons of compliments, but I couldn''t live with the color, even in yellow gold. I would do a K in an antique cushion in a second, or even some fancies, but for a modern round brillant I guess my preference is for a "cooler" stone. I felt like such a selfish idiot asking my husband to trade it in for a G (same size), especially since 1. I picked it, and 2. NOONE else seemed to notice the color. It is such sage advice to go and look at ideal cut stones in person before making your online purchase. Otherwise you''ll rationalize in your head, "Ah, I can live with it for another .5mm in size." And maybe you could, and maybe not.

Tastes are tastes!

Lorelei, I have to say that I am always impressed by the open-minded advice that you give others and the thought you put into tailoring your suggestions to each individual poster''s needs.

FB, We''re a nice bunch and are just trying to help. I hope you stick around and see that more and more!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/4/2009 1:08:36 AM
Author: Siamese Kitty

Date: 7/3/2009 5:23:26 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 7/3/2009 4:59:19 PM
Author: polk084
It seems like the majority favor getting a really nice cut, then ''sacrificing'' on color and clarity.

There are lots of regular posters who haven''t chimed in here who would sacrifice size for higher color. I think the overwhelming sentiment is that color is a subjective variable, so to each their own. But yes, many of us go lower in color to maximize size. For many people, I think once you have lived with a lowe color diamond for a while the color doesn''t matter one bit, especially in ideal cuts. But there are also a number of people who had lower color stones for a while and traded them in for smaller higher color ones, or spent more to get a higher color. Lower colors are NOT for everyone, you really need to go see ofr yourself to determine whether you like lower colors or not, because a J doesn''t look at all like an E.

Same holds for clarity... most people don''t care as long as you can''t see it, but there is the issue of *knowing* the inclusions are present and that bothers many people. So lots of people look for a ''mind clean'' stone that they know is eye clean without having to really look! Again, this is a personal preference. VS2 is an oft chosen clarity because it is both eye clean and mind clean.

Guilty as charged! I''m glad someone said this...

For that budget, I''d be looking at D-G VS1-SI1.

I had an I. A GORGEOUS ACA AGS000 I. It stopped traffic and got tons of compliments, but I couldn''t live with the color, even in yellow gold. I would do a K in an antique cushion in a second, or even some fancies, but for a modern round brillant I guess my preference is for a ''cooler'' stone. I felt like such a selfish idiot asking my husband to trade it in for a G (same size), especially since 1. I picked it, and 2. NOONE else seemed to notice the color. It is such sage advice to go and look at ideal cut stones in person before making your online purchase. Otherwise you''ll rationalize in your head, ''Ah, I can live with it for another .5mm in size.'' And maybe you could, and maybe not.

Tastes are tastes!

Lorelei, I have to say that I am always impressed by the open-minded advice that you give others and the thought you put into tailoring your suggestions to each individual poster''s needs.

FB, We''re a nice bunch and are just trying to help. I hope you stick around and see that more and more!

Kitty, that is about the highest praise I could possible receive and I sincerely thank you for it!!!!!

 

[diamondringlover]

I would look for a round hearts and arrows as big as I could get, H-I color, VS1-SI1 and the best cut with the most sparkle

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 7/4/2009 5:08:06 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/4/2009 1:08:36 AM
Author: Siamese Kitty

Date: 7/3/2009 5:23:26 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 7/3/2009 4:59:19 PM
Author: polk084
It seems like the majority favor getting a really nice cut, then ''sacrificing'' on color and clarity.

There are lots of regular posters who haven''t chimed in here who would sacrifice size for higher color. I think the overwhelming sentiment is that color is a subjective variable, so to each their own. But yes, many of us go lower in color to maximize size. For many people, I think once you have lived with a lowe color diamond for a while the color doesn''t matter one bit, especially in ideal cuts. But there are also a number of people who had lower color stones for a while and traded them in for smaller higher color ones, or spent more to get a higher color. Lower colors are NOT for everyone, you really need to go see ofr yourself to determine whether you like lower colors or not, because a J doesn''t look at all like an E.

Same holds for clarity... most people don''t care as long as you can''t see it, but there is the issue of *knowing* the inclusions are present and that bothers many people. So lots of people look for a ''mind clean'' stone that they know is eye clean without having to really look! Again, this is a personal preference. VS2 is an oft chosen clarity because it is both eye clean and mind clean.

Guilty as charged! I''m glad someone said this...

For that budget, I''d be looking at D-G VS1-SI1.

I had an I. A GORGEOUS ACA AGS000 I. It stopped traffic and got tons of compliments, but I couldn''t live with the color, even in yellow gold. I would do a K in an antique cushion in a second, or even some fancies, but for a modern round brillant I guess my preference is for a ''cooler'' stone. I felt like such a selfish idiot asking my husband to trade it in for a G (same size), especially since 1. I picked it, and 2. NOONE else seemed to notice the color. It is such sage advice to go and look at ideal cut stones in person before making your online purchase. Otherwise you''ll rationalize in your head, ''Ah, I can live with it for another .5mm in size.'' And maybe you could, and maybe not.

Tastes are tastes!

Lorelei, I have to say that I am always impressed by the open-minded advice that you give others and the thought you put into tailoring your suggestions to each individual poster''s needs.

FB, We''re a nice bunch and are just trying to help. I hope you stick around and see that more and more!

Kitty, that is about the highest praise I could possible receive and I sincerely thank you for it!!!!!

Loelei, I second the bit highlighted. You are really open minded and fully considerate of others whenever you put yourself out there to help someone. I really enjoy reading what you have to say.

 

[Sharon101]

Ok, question for the experts relevant to the OP question.

If I have $25000 to spend can I really get that much if Im going for the absolute top cut (that some say is the first and most important requirement). So say we choose ACA, and its an SI1 eyeclean, and since I like my diamonds white, say D- I , but prefer E or F or G. Well how big is my diamond going to be? Im guessing not much bigger than a carat or 1.5 carats top.

I cant see myself getting a huge rock with that budget if I want a top premium cut.

Im pretty sure I could get around 2 carats if my cut is not premium (but still good), and the diamond will still get lots of compliments because it will still sparkle and look amazing.

My opinion is that , for someone wanting 1 to 1.5 carats, then the size sacrifice is a non issue, so definately go for the absolute top cut for $25000 budget. This is the ideal sinareo because the buyer is getting pretty much everything they want in a luxury item with no apparent sacrifices. But if someone is a bit of a size gal, then I would try for around 2 carats plus & actually see what the lowest C`s I would be happy to live with irl. ie some might sacrifice colour, and some else might sacrifice somewhat on cut, or a combo of both!

 

[Lorelei]

Sharon, that is incredibly kind of you and it means more to me than you know, thank you!!!

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/4/2009 12:33:30 PM
Author: Sharon101
Ok, question for the experts relevant to the OP question.

If I have $25000 to spend can I really get that much if Im going for the absolute top cut (that some say is the first and most important requirement). So say we choose ACA, and its an SI1 eyeclean, and since I like my diamonds white, say D- I , but prefer E or F or G. Well how big is my diamond going to be? Im guessing not much bigger than a carat or 1.5 carats top.

Sharon, you did be surprise...

Here...
22.8k
ACA 2.341c I SI1, maybe eye-clean, but you will have to call WF...
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1466931.htm

EDT:
22.2k
or this GOG 2.38c I SI1.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4844/

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 7/4/2009 12:33:30 PM
Author: Sharon101
Ok, question for the experts relevant to the OP question.

If I have $25000 to spend can I really get that much if Im going for the absolute top cut (that some say is the first and most important requirement). So say we choose ACA, and its an SI1 eyeclean, and since I like my diamonds white, say D- I , but prefer E or F or G. Well how big is my diamond going to be? Im guessing not much bigger than a carat or 1.5 carats top.

I cant see myself getting a huge rock with that budget if I want a top premium cut.

Im pretty sure I could get around 2 carats if my cut is not premium (but still good), and the diamond will still get lots of compliments because it will still sparkle and look amazing.

My opinion is that , for someone wanting 1 to 1.5 carats, then the size sacrifice is a non issue, so definately go for the absolute top cut for $25000 budget. This is the ideal sinareo because the buyer is getting pretty much everything they want in a luxury item with no apparent sacrifices. But if someone is a bit of a size gal, then I would try for around 2 carats plus & actually see what the lowest C`s I would be happy to live with irl. ie some might sacrifice colour, and some else might sacrifice somewhat on cut, or a combo of both!

Sharon, I agree with you but not only due to size. I'd rather have a higher color and clarity in a larger size rather than sacrifice either or both to get an H&A. That does not mean I'd skimp on cut. But an ideal cut to me is all about light return, not about the perfect symmetry that H&A's have.

So i guess it really comes down to what the OP prefers. Perfect H&A pattern with excellent with light return, or just a plain ideal cut with excellent light return. (which by the way usually does exhibit some arrows. my ring is one example.)

The problem is, when buyers come on PS asking what's the best stone, it's safest to point them to a trusted vendor that carries H&A diamonds. There's no way they're going to get a dog. But if someone new joins and takes the time to ask questions, read all the tutorials and does a bit of searching themselves, they might find that they can get a stone just as pretty without sacraficing size, color or clarity.
Then there are people who totally appreciate the perfect Hearts and Arrows pattern and are willing to pay a premium or sacrifice one of the other c's to get it. That's fine too. It's all about what you're comfortable doing.

I just don't want new people to think that H&A's = light return. H&A's are all about symmetry- so people, especially the new ones, shouldn't get those two confused.

 

[Gypsy]

Sharon, AGS0 Hearts and Arrows F color 2 plus carat. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5303/ Probably eyeclean or prongable.