if you have seen both which do you prefer?

[froufrou]

1. AGS Ideal cut
2. GIA "Excellent cut" which may rank above 2.0 on the HCA
3. GIA very good cut that ranks below 2.0 on the HCA

(i wanted to make this a poll but i dont know how..)!!

 

[froufrou]

and what about if you could have a "Very Good" cut GIA stone which ranked below 2 on HCA versus a "Excellent" cut GIA stone which ranked above 2 on HCA??

that was more my main question i think...

 

[strmrdr]

gia ex and ags0 can be the exact same diamond.
Most ags0 diamonds will also make gia EX unless they have non-traditional girdle treatments or are on the shallow side.
Some gia ex diamonds will make ags0.

My answer is ags0 or gia ex with IS or other red scope or ASET images and some what optionally a full sarin or preferably a full helium report.
For myself id want the sarin/helium report but they aren''t 100% necessary on a ags0 and some gia EX with the info on the cert and red scope images.
It depends on how much info you want and how picky you want to be.
Im extremely picky :}

 

[froufrou]

the thing is, i have been looking at specs of GIA Very Good diamonds on the HCA cut advisor and they get rankings below 2, like 0.8 or 1.4. when i looked at specs of some GIA Excellent diamonds they got rankings of 2.4 to even 3.6 on HCA... so how can that be? all the AGS diamonds ive looked at have done well on the HCA.

 

[JulieN]

GIA EX: 2.4-3.6 are (probably?) steep deeps
GIA under 2 VG: maybe a nontraditional girdle treatment

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Storm, how about picking a diamond for me?

I want to know if you like a solid red and black IS or whether you like a little contrast (as in WF classic)?

Froufrou, I think your poll needs to be reworded to really work. The way it is worded there is only one correct answer and that would be #1. But as Storm said, the same stone can fall into AGS Ideal or GIA excellent. I ahve a stone here now that is GIA excellent but the numbers are within AGS Ideal, as a matter of fact.

 

[belle]

Date: 5/17/2006 7:42:46 PM
Author: strmrdr
gia ex and ags0 can be the exact same diamond.
Most ags0 diamonds will also make gia EX unless they have non-traditional girdle treatments or are on the shallow side.
Some gia ex diamonds will make ags0.

agreed.

froufrou you are generalizing way too much by trying to compare only grading reports.

 

[Mara]

GIA EX or VG does not matter to me...I don''t trust their grading anyway. I would choose by the #''s not the GIA grade.

I''d rather have an AGS Ideal over GIA EX or VG if it came down to it. BUT I still would choose by the #''s and the images of the stone itself...the cut grades aren''t the end all to be all for me.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 5/17/2006 7:48:34 PM
Author: JulieN
GIA EX: 2.4-3.6 are (probably?) steep deeps
GIA under 2 VG: maybe a nontraditional girdle treatment

I am wondering if the right numbers are being entered. Are you entering the crown angle and pavilion angle degrees?

FF, give us an example of a GIA EX cert that comes up with a 3.6 and let us see what the problem is.

 

[Mara]

i would agree on the VG GIA having a girdle treatment, since GIA just automatically drops a girdle treated stone down to a VG. my new ES stone is a GIA VG and it is a knockout which is why i don't put alot of stock in the GIA grading system....my eyes and the numbers tell me it's an EX.

 

[froufrou]

yes, i realize the poll is worded badly...realized that as soon as everyone started choosing AGS Ideal, haha.

It must be that those GIA Ex are steep/deeps cause they had really high depth compared to some of the other ones...i did not save any of those since I am trying to find a good stone by HCA.

i only saved the ones that were good on HCA. for example this one,

.80 ct, F color, SI2, GIA cert w cut ranking "Very good"
Symmetry/Polish: EX/VG
no flour
5.98 x 5.93 x 3.66
depth 61.5%
table 56%
36 degrees crown
40.2 degrees pavilion

ended with a score of 0.8 on HCA with EX/EX/EX/VG. i thought that was pretty good but was concerned since the rank it got was only very good. it is pretty deep also though isnt it?

oh oh...girdle treatment...that is something I haven''t heard of yet, what is it and how bad is it???

 

[froufrou]

bell: yes yes, i realize i am generalizing to just consider cut. i was assuming all else equal...

 

[JulieN]

Date: 5/17/2006 8:18:01 PM
Author: froufrou
yes, i realize the poll is worded badly...realized that as soon as everyone started choosing AGS Ideal, haha.

It must be that those GIA Ex are steep/deeps cause they had really high depth compared to some of the other ones...i did not save any of those since I am trying to find a good stone by HCA.

i only saved the ones that were good on HCA. for example this one,

.80 ct, F color, SI2, GIA cert w cut ranking 'Very good'
Symmetry/Polish: EX/VG
no flour
5.98 x 5.93 x 3.66
depth 61.5%
table 56%
36 degrees crown
40.2 degrees pavilion

ended with a score of 0.8 on HCA with EX/EX/EX/VG. i thought that was pretty good but was concerned since the rank it got was only very good. it is pretty deep also though isnt it?

oh oh...girdle treatment...that is something I haven't heard of yet, what is it and how bad is it???

"excellent" rating on HCA, since it is 0-2. It's not deep.

You can read about girdle treatments (ex: ACA New Line)

 

[froufrou]

wha??? i am more confused now than ever. where on the GIA report can i tell if there is girdle treatment? you are saying if there is the stone would not look good as a ring? ahhhhhhh....my head''s spinning

 

[belle]

Date: 5/17/2006 8:19:29 PM
Author: froufrou
bell: yes yes, i realize i am generalizing to just consider cut. i was assuming all else equal...

you are not generalizing to only consider cut, you are generalizing to consider that one certain cut can be assumed from a grading report or that a diamond graded by a certain lab is always better than another. you need to look at the diamonds as a whole and not judge by one, or even just a few, generalized criteria.

 

[froufrou]

good point, belle. sorry about that. as you can see i am still trying to understand all this diamond stuff.

 

[Mara]

it has to do with your eyes and how you perceive beauty. there have been stones on here that some would call pendant only and yet they make lovely rings and the owners are jazzed with them. that said, i don''t love the crown and pavilion angle combination on that stone with the table and depth. i would totally not do that for a ring either...but it doesn''t mean it won''t be attractive to you.

girdle treatment means that GIA is dinging stones that have painted girdles, meaning something like WF''s ACA new line where the image of the idealscope is blood red with no white along the edges. they are automatically dropping those to VG cut quality even though those are probably some of the best looking stones out there IMO.

my stone was dinged even though it''s not technically a new line or classic as it''s not even an ACA but it got the VG rating and i could care less...it''s stunning, it scores well on the HCA, the numbers are exactly where i want them. which is why i am not giving tons of credence to the new GIA cut grades...i didn''t trust AGS0''s were all great and i wouldn''t trust blindly that GIA EX''s are all great and VG''s are automatically not.

 

[froufrou]

where on the GIA or AGS cert would it say if the stone has had that done??

Mara: how do you tell if you like the numbers? you just know what stones look good to you in person or go from there??

 

[JulieN]

You can tell about the girdle by looking at the IS.

FF, sorry, the part earlier where I said it was a pendant stone is wrong (I saw 35 instead of 36 CA.) Which doesn't make it a pendant stone...but a FIC.

 

[Mara]

frou frou...i used to have a stone with undesirable specs and angles and it's now just easier for me to stay in a 'sweet spot' where i know i visually like the stones results ... because i have owned a few of them. and they are not hard to come across so i figure why make it hard on myself when i know what i like and i know i can find them. kind of like if you know you like a certain brand of peanut butter and your store always stocks it, are you going to go elsewhere to specifically TRY another brand when you know you love the old one? i might be more adventurous with a different type of stone than a ring.

my ideal kind of stone would be like what i have now:
56% table (or 55%)
60.5% depth (or 60.5-60.9% sweet spot)
34.8 crown angle (or 34.4-34.9 sweet spot)
40.8 pav angle (or 40.6-40.9 sweet spot)
thin-medium girdle (i like thin more)

i would be more lenient on a stone for a pendant or earrings or something like that but a ring gets so much scrutiny that i have to know that it has tip top specs (for me) because i am the one scrutinizing it the most.

 

[Carlotta]

This is where the GIA talks about girdle treatments....

www.diamondcut.gia.edu/pdf/6_05_RDR_pg239_243pdf.pdf

AGS certs don''t mention it at all....

 

[belle]

Date: 5/17/2006 9:19:25 PM
Author: froufrou
good point, belle. sorry about that. as you can see i am still trying to understand all this diamond stuff.

don''t be sorry at all ff.. learning is what ps is all about! i just wanted you to understand that you can''t use a grading report to say ''all xx graded diamonds are better than all xx graded diamonds'' each lab uses different criteria for grading. some of these grades may transcend eachother, others don''t even come close.
like mara''s, my diamond was graded ''very good'' by gia because of the girdle

but i have no doubt that it would have been given an ''ideal'' by ags and is an amazing stone.
grading reports are important, hca scores are handy but if you can''t see the stone in person, try to get at least an idealscope image. you can learn so much more than just the numbers alone can tell you.

 

[froufrou]

thanks Mara. i have not seen many stones in person.

what usually looks prettier to people, the Firey Ideal Cut or the Brilliance Cut? the stones i have been running through HCA are usually on the side of the more fire range.

 

[JulieN]

Garry says most women prefer FICs.

A BIC is not something I'd personally be interested in, except maybe for earrings or pendants.

 

[froufrou]

thanks belle. the diamonds i was looking at were from bluenile because they appeared to have the largest selection in the range i was looking at. they will check whether the stone is eyeclean for me but they dont provide any idealscope images or anything like that. i am wondering how crazy/risky it would be to buy without the idealscope, they do offer a 30 day return policy. it seems so convenient as i can then get the insurance through Chubb through bluenile and not worry about having to have homeowners insurance too. i know many people have been satisfied with their bluenile diamond but i know many others say that they do not like them exactly because you dont get an idealscope image. having looked on jamesallen and whiteflash though i did not see any diamonds with the same qualifications that i liked on bluenile so i dunno.

carlotta: thanks for that link

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/17/2006 7:50:13 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Storm, how about picking a diamond for me?

I want to know if you like a solid red and black IS or whether you like a little contrast (as in WF classic)?


Froufrou, I think your poll needs to be reworded to really work. The way it is worded there is only one correct answer and that would be #1. But as Storm said, the same stone can fall into AGS Ideal or GIA excellent. I ahve a stone here now that is GIA excellent but the numbers are within AGS Ideal, as a matter of fact.

classic style by a wide margin.
with a disclaimer I havent seen a new line ACA but have seen diamonds with simular treatments and didnt like em as well as standard girdle faceted diamonds by a wide margin.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/17/2006 8:18:01 PM
Author: froufrou
yes, i realize the poll is worded badly...realized that as soon as everyone started choosing AGS Ideal, haha.


It must be that those GIA Ex are steep/deeps cause they had really high depth compared to some of the other ones...i did not save any of those since I am trying to find a good stone by HCA.


i only saved the ones that were good on HCA. for example this one,


.80 ct, F color, SI2, GIA cert w cut ranking ''Very good''

Symmetry/Polish: EX/VG

no flour

5.98 x 5.93 x 3.66

depth 61.5%

table 56%

36 degrees crown

40.2 degrees pavilion


ended with a score of 0.8 on HCA with EX/EX/EX/VG. i thought that was pretty good but was concerned since the rank it got was only very good. it is pretty deep also though isnt it?


oh oh...girdle treatment...that is something I haven''t heard of yet, what is it and how bad is it???

thats a steep/shallow gia kicked it down because of the shallow pavalion it should be a very fiery diamond with proper minor facets.

 

[Carlotta]

So, a TIC is a;ways a good balance!!

 

[Carlotta]

Date: 5/17/2006 9:59:42 PM
Author: froufrou
thanks belle. the diamonds i was looking at were from bluenile because they appeared to have the largest selection in the range i was looking at. they will check whether the stone is eyeclean for me but they dont provide any idealscope images or anything like that. i am wondering how crazy/risky it would be to buy without the idealscope, they do offer a 30 day return policy. it seems so convenient as i can then get the insurance through Chubb through bluenile and not worry about having to have homeowners insurance too. i know many people have been satisfied with their bluenile diamond but i know many others say that they do not like them exactly because you dont get an idealscope image. having looked on jamesallen and whiteflash though i did not see any diamonds with the same qualifications that i liked on bluenile so i dunno.

carlotta: thanks for that link

What are you looking for???? Size, color??

 

[belle]

Date: 5/17/2006 9:59:42 PM
Author: froufrou
thanks belle. the diamonds i was looking at were from bluenile because they appeared to have the largest selection in the range i was looking at. they will check whether the stone is eyeclean for me but they dont provide any idealscope images or anything like that. i am wondering how crazy/risky it would be to buy without the idealscope, they do offer a 30 day return policy. it seems so convenient as i can then get the insurance through Chubb through bluenile and not worry about having to have homeowners insurance too. i know many people have been satisfied with their bluenile diamond but i know many others say that they do not like them exactly because you dont get an idealscope image. having looked on jamesallen and whiteflash though i did not see any diamonds with the same qualifications that i liked on bluenile so i dunno.

carlotta: thanks for that link

okay, now i understand where you are coming from.

if i were buying from bn, i would take the chance on a new ags0 with light performance grading (0)