if stone is insured, do you need USPS insurance?

[Go Blue 99]

I''m mailing my wife''s e-ring back to ERD to have it resized. I looked through the archives and everyone recommends getting full-value insurance if you mail it thru USPS registered mail.

The ring is covered thru an insurance policy at Jewelers Mutual (which covers accidental losses). Why would I need USPS insurance if the ring is already covered thru JM? Just curious- I assume almost all policies cover accidental loss, but nobody mentioned this in the archives. Am I overlooking something?

thanks!

 

[denverappraiser]

Blue,

That’s a terrific question. The answer, like most terrific questions is that it depends. It depends primarily on the details of your policy. The folks at Jewelers Mutual tell me that a loss of an insured item while in the reasonable care of the post office (meaning registered mail) would be a covered loss under their standard policy. Ask your agent.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[ericad]

FYI, registered mail automatically includes insurance for the first $25k.

 

[niceice]

Date: 10/1/2007 3:42:38 PM
Author: ericad
FYI, registered mail automatically includes insurance for the first $25k.

Actually insurance for registered mail packages is an Option with insurance coverage available Up To $25K - the cost of which is about $38.00 according to the rate calculator on USPS.com

 

[angeline]

I did this exact same thing. I wanted to send my ring to get it re-set, while it was covered through Jewelers Mutual.

Although they didn't prefer it, they said it was covered while in transit via Fedex with no additional insurance purchased. I prefered Fedex cos it only took a day instead of USPS which would take 4-5.

I got it in writing from them. You should probably just do the same and send it however you like.

a

edited to add: I disguised it pretty heavily before I took it to the Fedex office

I also didn't tell them what it was of course.

 

[angeline]

as an aside: I now have insurance through Chubb with Touchstone. It is NOT insured for transit, or while being worked on, only when in my possession.

a

 

[denverappraiser]

It’s a federal crime to lie about the contents of a package if they ask you although they don’t normally ask for much in the way of details. Their looking for poisons, not diamonds when they ask this question. You’re not likely to go to jail or suffer any particular problem from the feds for lying about a piece of jewelry but it’s worth noting that losses that occur while in the commission of a crime are specifically excluded from typical insurance contracts for obvious reasons. I would be a little surprised if an insurer would disallow a claim on this basis but it''s certainly possible that they COULD.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[angeline]

Date: 10/1/2007 5:02:12 PM
Author: denverappraiser
It’s a federal crime to lie about the contents of a package if they ask you although they don’t normally ask for much in the way of details. Their looking for poisons, not diamonds when they ask this question. You’re not likely to go to jail or suffer any particular problem from the feds for lying about a piece of jewelry but it’s worth noting that losses that occur while in the commission of a crime are specifically excluded from typical insurance contracts for obvious reasons. I would be a little surprised if an insurer would disallow a claim on this basis but it''s certainly possible that they COULD.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

I didn''t lie.

I was at a Mail Center and they wanted me to fill in their own form. They already had asked about the dangerous substance part. I really didn''t want to advertise a diamond ring if I didn''t have to. I told them I would rather not say if I didn''t have to. I wasn''t required to disclose what I was mailing other than assuring them it wasn''t dangerous. When I said I disguised it I meant I didn''t waltz in there with a ring box in hand I put it in a bigger box.

So I didn''t LIE, I''m not that stupid.

 

[denverappraiser]

Angeline, I apologize for the tone of my post. I’m not accusing you of any such thing. I think this is likely to be a thread that comes up in a variety of searches for information about shipping and insurance and it seemed prudent to get that bit advice in here or some dummy is going think we told them it was ok to do it since they’re insured. I was not accusing YOU of being that dummy.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[angeline]

Date: 10/1/2007 6:23:28 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Angeline, I apologize for the tone of my post. I’m not accusing you of any such thing. I think this is likely to be a thread that comes up in a variety of searches for information about shipping and insurance and it seemed prudent to get that bit advice in here or some dummy is going think we told them it was ok to do it since they’re insured. I was not accusing YOU of being that dummy.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

No worries, thanks for replying,

. I admit I got my hackles up and probably took it a bit too personally. It is good advice. Cheers,

a

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 10/1/2007 4:13:17 PM
Author: angeline
as an aside: I now have insurance through Chubb with Touchstone. It is NOT insured for transit, or while being worked on, only when in my possession.

a

What do you mean, not insured "while being worked on"? You mean if you leave your ring for repair or resetting, it is not covered???? Wow, I have Chubb and DID NOT KNOW THAT!!!!! Grrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[angeline]

Date: 10/1/2007 7:06:41 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 10/1/2007 4:13:17 PM

Author: angeline

as an aside: I now have insurance through Chubb with Touchstone. It is NOT insured for transit, or while being worked on, only when in my possession.


a

What do you mean, not insured ''while being worked on''? You mean if you leave your ring for repair or resetting, it is not covered???? Wow, I have Chubb and DID NOT KNOW THAT!!!!! Grrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually to be precise DS, I didn''t ask specifically about being worked on. They said that it is covered when in my possession while I am taking reasonable care. It would be good to clarify this. I think I assumed that if it isn''t covered while I am mailing it somewhere, it also wouldn''t be covered while it was away from me being worked on.

I think I will call tomorrow and clarify.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 10/1/2007 7:06:41 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 10/1/2007 4:13:17 PM
Author: angeline
as an aside: I now have insurance through Chubb with Touchstone. It is NOT insured for transit, or while being worked on, only when in my possession.

a

What do you mean, not insured 'while being worked on'? You mean if you leave your ring for repair or resetting, it is not covered???? Wow, I have Chubb and DID NOT KNOW THAT!!!!! Grrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, I just got a heart attack-- you HAVE to be sure when posting things like that. Can you please go read your policy, Angeline?. It's my understanding of my Chubb through touchstone policy that it IS covered, as I confirmed with Touchstone in writing before I sent my ring/diamond to Ocean. Although I STILLL do not have a freaking copy of my policy (though Chubb apparently keeps sending them out

) to confirm.

Can you PLEASE check your policy Angeline? Or anyone with Chubb standalone, through Touchstone?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I almost had one, too, Gypsy. I think the mailing thing is pretty understandable. We do need to get insurance when mailing. I would have done that anyway. The regsitered/insured is just the safest way to send something. But there may be many times that we take a ring in for sizing, polishing, repair, or resetting, and that ring BETTER be covered all the time!

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 10/1/2007 8:06:15 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I almost had one, too, Gypsy. I think the mailing thing is pretty understandable. We do need to get insurance when mailing. I would have done that anyway. The regsitered/insured is just the safest way to send something. But there may be many times that we take a ring in for sizing, polishing, repair, or resetting, and that ring BETTER be covered all the time!

*still feeling faint*

I have to ditto this. Just called Touchstone, will have to keep compulsively checking my mail for that policy... planned on reading it front to back anyway, but have a whole new motivation for that now, let me tell you!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I''ll look and see if mine specifies that kind of thing.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

OKay, Gypsy, and anyone else interested.

Exclusions to the all-risk policy on jewelry (Chubb):

"We do not cover loss resulting directly or indirectly from:

1. War.... (lists several types of war, so stay out of a war zone with your jewelry!!!)

2. Nuclear hazard (oh, well, probably won''t live to need the rings anyway)
Except, if the jewelry is destroyed by FIRE from the nuclear hazard, it IS covered!

3. Wear and tear, gradual deterioration, insects, vermin or inherent vice. (keep the mice out of your jewelry box!

)


I think we are fine, Gypsy!

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/1/2007 3:40:25 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Blue,

That’s a terrific question. The answer, like most terrific questions is that it depends. It depends primarily on the details of your policy. The folks at Jewelers Mutual tell me that a loss of an insured item while in the reasonable care of the post office (meaning registered mail) would be a covered loss under their standard policy. Ask your agent.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

Unfortunately 'ask your agent' isn't good enough. The point of insurance is to cover risk--the agent's word is a risk.

Anybody out there with a JM or Chubb that could do PS'ers a great service by uploading the actual policy (assuming your personal details are not embedded of course)? Is there any other industry that you can't see what you're buying until you've bought it?

I was under the general opinion that policies specifically exclude coverage during posting, but JM seems to understand the jewelery buying process better than anyone so it's totally believeable they might be an exception. Not that it matters considering USPS is already covering it.

Is there any way the consumer can be covered if they want to get a loose diamond somewhere quickly, and they can't use the vendor's insurance?

ETA: Great stuff DS - Looking good for the standalone policies.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/1/2007 4:00:18 PM
Author: niceice

Date: 10/1/2007 3:42:38 PM
Author: ericad
FYI, registered mail automatically includes insurance for the first $25k.

Actually insurance for registered mail packages is an Option with insurance coverage available Up To $25K - the cost of which is about $38.00 according to the rate calculator on USPS.com

Sure on this Todd? You legally have to declare the value, then they charge the appropriate fee based on the value. I didn''t think it was optional.

 

[Ellen]

Um, what''s "inherent vice"?


*feeling stupid*

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/1/2007 9:15:03 PM
Author: Ellen
Um, what's 'inherent vice'?


*feeling stupid*

Not sure how it applies to jewelry but usually it's for items that self-perish (without external influences causing wear and tear), like food, wine and time-bombs.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 10/1/2007 9:27:09 PM
Author: stebbo

Date: 10/1/2007 9:15:03 PM
Author: Ellen
Um, what''s ''inherent vice''?


*feeling stupid*

Not sure how it applies to jewelry but usually it''s for items that self-perish (without external influences causing wear and tear), like food, wine and time-bombs,

Where is that ROTFLOL icon when you need it???

 

[angeline]

Blimey, sorry for all the panic!!! You don''t take anyone''s word for gospel on a public forum anyway do you?? I mean you have to check things out for yourself. I''m reporting my interpretation of what someone said to me on a phone call, that''s it.

I assumed (and we all know what that makes me!

) that as it wasn''t covered when I mailed it off, and my agent said that it had to be in my possession to be covered, that it wouldn''t be covered when being worked on after it arrived at it''s destination. I mean, to me...not covered while in transit, suddenly covered once it arrives?? Again. Only my interpretation.

Just ring your broker and check for yourself.

I certainly will be ringing tomorrow.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Angeline, I do think it is responsible to insure when mailing even if you have other insurance. It just travels more safely, for one thing. (Speaking of USPS here)

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/1/2007 8:32:21 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
OKay, Gypsy, and anyone else interested.


Exclusions to the all-risk policy on jewelry (Chubb):


'We do not cover loss resulting directly or indirectly from:


1. War.... (lists several types of war, so stay out of a war zone with your jewelry!!!)


2. Nuclear hazard (oh, well, probably won't live to need the rings anyway)

Except, if the jewelry is destroyed by FIRE from the nuclear hazard, it IS covered!


3. Wear and tear, gradual deterioration, insects, vermin or inherent vice. (keep the mice out of your jewelry box!

)




I think we are fine, Gypsy!

Maybe I should know this, but what exactly do they define as "wear and tear?" If you wear it and your prongs are getting abused slowly but surely, until one day your diamond falls out--is that going to be considered wear and tear?

I am sure it means that they do not cover things like scratches on your shank, but where do they start covering it? scratches on your diamond? chips on your diamond? bent prongs? Are those things not covered? I don't think I understand...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It means they aren''t going to replace your setting when the metal wears away. If the diamond falls out of the setting and is lost, it is covered.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/1/2007 9:42:36 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Maybe I should know this, but what exactly do they define as ''wear and tear?'' If you wear it and your prongs are getting abused slowly but surely, until one day your diamond falls out--is that going to be considered wear and tear?

Well let''s just say that if during one of your required 3-yearly re-appraisals with a JM policy, and it''s noted that your prongs are wearing and should be retipped/replaced. If you don''t do it and the diamond falls out, you will not be covered.

But it''s very hard to prove otherwise.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/1/2007 9:45:36 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
It means they aren't going to replace your setting when the metal wears away. If the diamond falls out of the setting and is lost, it is covered.

but if it fell out because the prongs had been worn down and messed up because of daily wear and tear then wouldn't the loss of the diamond be indirectly caused by the daily wear and tear of the prongs, meaning that it would fit under the definition of non-covered damages?


Edit: I just read stebbos post...it makes sense, but I think I will check out chubbs site later and see if I can find a definition of wear and tear, as that seems somewhat dangerously broad, especially when you include it could be the indirect cause of some greater loss.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This is why I went with Chubb over JM. (referring to Stebbo's last post)

 

[beebrisk]

Whatever you do, PLEASE ship it in a large box...one that would not normally be suited to a tiny ring. And add some weight to the box, too. You definitely need to obscure the fact that you are shipping a small, valuable item.

No offense to the thousands of honest and reputable USPS, UPS and FedEx workers, but everyone knows that ''good things come in small packages"!

I actually do quite a bit of business with FedEx and they are well aware that unscrupulous employees often hit small, light and highly insured packages.