if GIA graded a fancy cut U-Z color, is this another way...

[Dancing Fire]

of saying the stone is garbage ? (i.e. fancy light yellow)

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/15/2005 1:14:43 AM
Author:Dancing Fire
of saying the stone is garbage ? (i.e. fancy light yellow)

Wait a minute... why would U-Z be "garbage" ?

At least some like it

 

[ForteKitty]

I think U-Z looks better than piss yellow (fancy yellow). And those vivid yellows... eww... Vitamin B piss yellow!

 

[diamondlil]

It''s a personal preference. I definitely like the very pale, lemon yellow color better than vivid yellow which looks awful IMO. In the right setting flanked with super-white side stones, I think a U-V would be right up my alley.

 

[oldminer]

I own two round diamonds graded by GIA some years ago. One is W-X and the other is Y-Z. Both diamonds are carat size stones and nicely cut. The Y-Z would get a "fancy yellow" in today''s grading, so I don''t think there is a Y-Z grade given on diamonds today, or the scales have been widely adjusted. The W-X is just about where Light Fancy Yellow begins today, so even W-X is probably not given now, or the color today has also be ''adjusted".

These are truly rare example stones and give gemologists a lot of fun in grading tests.

 

[strmrdr]

Give industrial diamonds a fancy name and charge a fortune for em. Yep sounds like a plan.

 

[KittenKat]

Wow! I also LOVE the lemon color of the light yellow stones. And - I do not care for the deeper ''fancier'' yellows. Not my shade!

However, I''d take any shade of blue.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/15/2005 8:44:10 AM
Author: strmrdr
Give industrial diamonds a fancy name and charge a fortune for em. Yep sounds like a plan.

C''mon Strm.... I don''t think many of those light yellows were ever wasted on drill bits. They pop up in jewelry of all ages and it is not hard to see why, even if your personal prefference goes another way.

Light color on something with high brilliance just works.

Besides, even if they are... the price still makes them a relatively expensive gemstone. It wouldn''t be the only "industrial" material used for aestetic ends. Cool ?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 4/15/2005 7:19

4 AM
Author: oldminer
I own two round diamonds graded by GIA some years ago. One is W-X and the other is Y-Z. Both diamonds are carat size stones and nicely cut. The Y-Z would get a ''fancy yellow'' in today''s grading, so I don''t think there is a Y-Z grade given on diamonds today, or the scales have been widely adjusted. The W-X is just about where Light Fancy Yellow begins today, so even W-X is probably not given now, or the color today has also be ''adjusted''.

These are truly rare example stones and give gemologists a lot of fun in grading tests.

Hey Dave- and everyone!

GIA is has continuosly issued the grades of U-V, W-X, Y-Z. I also bvelieve that there has been a shift over the years, however I don''t feel that it''s as dramatic as Dave does.
Possibly a stone given Y-Z 10 years ago would get Fancy Light Yellow today.
When GIA issues the full report, the colors of U-V, W-X, and Y-Z Range are desribed as just that. For example in the report below- the color is described as "Y-Z Range"

However- if the person submitting the diamond asks for a "Color Origin" report, then GIA adds the qualifier of "Light Yellow" to the description.
The report below- a "Color Origin" report, lists the color as "W-X Range, Light Yellow"

There''s no question these stones are gaining a lot of acceptance in the market, and the prices have risen accordingly. Heck, they hardly use them for drill bits anymore

There is a huge problem in that gemologists/appraisers need to have samples- master sets as it were.
A master set needs to be round diamonds- as yours are Dave- but, it''s near impossible to use a round diamond for this purpose.
Fancy Colored Diamonds are so rarely round- mainly because you get a lot less color out of the the top of the stone on a round brilliant- so if you place a RB table down and see a lot of color, flip it over and there will be a lot less color coming thru the table. Comparing radiants and rounds for color comparison is difficult.

SO trying to have a standard for the colors of U-V, W-X, and Y-Z is tough- it''s more easily accomplished if one were to actually buy GIA graded radiant cut stones to use as samples ( that''s what we do). Even GIA''s consistency on these colors is far less than on colorless diamonds- becasue the fancy colors are so much more difficult to pin down. The range of color between D-E is quite narrow. The range between Fancy Light, and Fancy Yellow is quite wide. this makes the color grading far moire difficult.


Lastly- I fnd it incredibly impolite to call other people''s diamonds garbage.
If someone loves an I2 diamond, would you tell them they love garbage?- yes, it is hard to find a "MIND CLEAN" - but if we did find one they would not be insulting other people so callously.

 

[oldminer]

David DBL; Thanks for the informative response. It is good to get current information on this subject. I appreciate it. The tricks of creating a deeper, more colorful, face-up appearance in certain shape stones is definitely an important consideration in getting to correct grade results.

It is my belief that we see radiant cut diamonds graded as light fancy yellow which have less body color or face-up color, for that matter, than the Y-Z round I have. This is what makes me wonder about "slippage" or changes in standards.

As far as any color goes, if it is attractive it is NOT garbage. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One person''s junk is another person''s flea market business. The entire system of price equating to colorlessness or intense color has little to do with actual rarity or value, especially in the colorless range. None of us really know what is the most rare color, but we mindlessly assume D is more rare than E. Only a very few miners know for sure and they are not telling anyone. The system of color and clarity we work with is a construct for simplicity of marketing and may not actually indicate supply or actual rarity.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

What''s the date on the report of the Y-Z you have Dave?

PS- good point about the relative prices for color.
I have pretty much as hard a time finding W-X 5ct Radiants as I do finding Fancy Yellow- why is the fancy yellow 5times the price?

 

[oldminer]

I think the Y-Z report was from the late 1980''s....

The price difference from Y-Z to Fancy is marketing, not supply controlled. It is a lot like SI3 is way more popular a grade than GIA I1. Some I1''s are worse than others and might not get an SI3. Of course, some SI3''s are worse than some other SI3''s, too. It is mental, not a real market.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Late ''80''s????? Did they have electricity back then.....heheheh
There''s no question the stone could be graded differently today.

Yes, the diamond business certainly is "interesting"!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/15/2005 7:19

4 AM
Author: oldminer
I own two round diamonds graded by GIA some years ago. One is W-X and the other is Y-Z. Both diamonds are carat size stones and nicely cut. The Y-Z would get a ''fancy yellow'' in today''s grading, so I don''t think there is a Y-Z grade given on diamonds today, or the scales have been widely adjusted. The W-X is just about where Light Fancy Yellow begins today, so even W-X is probably not given now, or the color today has also be ''adjusted''.

These are truly rare example stones and give gemologists a lot of fun in grading tests.

Dave
maybe these are rare because most of them go''s to industrial use?

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 4/15/2005 2:18:47 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Late ''80''s????? Did they have electricity back then.....heheheh

There''s no question the stone could be graded differently today.

We graded by candlelight back then so everything was a fancy yellow. The bandwidth restrictions inherent in the telegraph system was terribly inconvenient and the treadle powered Sarin machine was much more susceptible to errors than the new DiaVision products.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hey Neil,
Back where I was working in the ''80''s they had a gerbil running on a wheel to power the Sarin- what kind of 1/2 A$$ed place did you work for?????

Date: 4/15/2005 2:44

9 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/15/2005 7:19

4 AM
Author: oldminer
I own two round diamonds graded by GIA some years ago. One is W-X and the other is Y-Z. Both diamonds are carat size stones and nicely cut. The Y-Z would get a ''fancy yellow'' in today''s grading, so I don''t think there is a Y-Z grade given on diamonds today, or the scales have been widely adjusted. The W-X is just about where Light Fancy Yellow begins today, so even W-X is probably not given now, or the color today has also be ''adjusted''.

These are truly rare example stones and give gemologists a lot of fun in grading tests.

Dave
maybe these are rare because most of them go''s to industrial use?

Dancing fire- Obviously, as a seller of this type of stones, I have an interest in talking about them favorably- luckily, I actually DO love them, so it''s no stretch for me. I''m not alone in this love- Light fancy colored stones have been loved by people since people started loving colorless diamonds.

What is your motivation to try and trash light yellow diamonds?


And I ask again- is it not very rude to insult someone''s diamond simply because you don''t like it? There''s nothing rude about saying you don''t like something- but that''s no reason to insult these diamonds.

 

[strmrdr]

For the record I like the brownish/gold, blue, and red colored diamonds.
Cant stand the yellows or the pinks.
Even if they are industrial diamonds :} they can be kewl :}
I was trolling David more than anything lol

edit to add: love the oranges too :}

 

[Stephan]

I don''t like vivid yellow diamonds.
I love light yellow diamonds, but not if they are round.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/15/2005 3:24:25 PM
Author: strmrdr

Cant stand the yellows or the pinks.
Even if they are industrial diamonds :} they can be kewl :}

Ok... where have you heard of cuttable yellows downgraded to "industrial use".

Pink ? That''s INSANE ! Unless the industry you are thinking about is the Entertainment Industry

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/15/2005 3:30:54 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 4/15/2005 3:24:25 PM

Author: strmrdr


Cant stand the yellows or the pinks.

Even if they are industrial diamonds :} they can be kewl :}

Ok... where have you heard of cuttable yellows downgraded to ''industrial use''.

Pink ? That''s INSANE ! Unless the industry you are thinking about is the Entertainment Industry

That works :}

 

[diamondsbylauren]

strmrdr- I think this forum is a good place to say something like, I don''t like vivid, or I love it- whatever.
But you have not trashed yellows in this thread, or insulted someone who loves something you do not.

Ana- of course no one uses beautiful faint, or light fancy color diamonds for industrial use- this is simply another example of a nasty post.
This one was designed to insult folks that love light fancy colored diamonds

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/15/2005 4:11:52 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren

This one was designed to insult folks that love light fancy colored diamonds

Felt that a bit.... I''m one !

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/15/2005 4:22:32 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 4/15/2005 4:11:52 PM

Author: diamondsbylauren


This one was designed to insult folks that love light fancy colored diamonds

Felt that a bit.... I''m one !

Im sorry if you were insulted.
It wasnt intended that way.
Problem with the writen word is that it all reads the same.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/15/2005 3:13:27 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Hey Neil,
Back where I was working in the ''80''s they had a gerbil running on a wheel to power the Sarin- what kind of 1/2 A$$ed place did you work for?????

Date: 4/15/2005 2:44

9 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/15/2005 7:19

4 AM
Author: oldminer
I own two round diamonds graded by GIA some years ago. One is W-X and the other is Y-Z. Both diamonds are carat size stones and nicely cut. The Y-Z would get a ''fancy yellow'' in today''s grading, so I don''t think there is a Y-Z grade given on diamonds today, or the scales have been widely adjusted. The W-X is just about where Light Fancy Yellow begins today, so even W-X is probably not given now, or the color today has also be ''adjusted''.

These are truly rare example stones and give gemologists a lot of fun in grading tests.

Dave
maybe these are rare because most of them go''s to industrial use?

Dancing fire- Obviously, as a seller of this type of stones, I have an interest in talking about them favorably- luckily, I actually DO love them, so it''s no stretch for me. I''m not alone in this love- Light fancy colored stones have been loved by people since people started loving colorless diamonds.

What is your motivation to try and trash light yellow diamonds?


And I ask again- is it not very rude to insult someone''s diamond simply because you don''t like it? There''s nothing rude about saying you don''t like something- but that''s no reason to insult these diamonds.

DBL
sorry if i insulted anybody,didn''t mean too.my question is more of a learning question .i never bought a yellow diamond ,if i see a low color y-z would that equal to a P1 in clarity term?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/15/2005 6:32:42 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
see a low color y-z would that equal to a P1 in clarity term?

Why would there be any relation between color and clarity grades ?

 

[FireGoddess]

I'm assuming DF meant that if you look at the color scale subjectively and call D the "highest/best" color and Z the "lowest", then a Y-Z or whatever so far down the scale would compare to a clarity grade so low down the chart that it would be below I3 or whatever.

The thing I disagree with is that it seems DF is subjectively using the term "low" for color in this case. It's not as WHITE or "high up" the grade scale, but that hardly equates a color grade that is very warm (and desirable to some people) to a diamond so included that nobody would like it. Hardly the same thing.

I use the phrase "low" in color to mean further down the color chart...not necessarily lower in quality/less desirable, though some people feel this way.

I don't know if that made sense, but I think that's what the reference to P1 meant.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hey Dancing Fire- I just though "Garbage" was a very poor choice of words.
As Ana points out, P1 is a very poor clarity grade- frozen spit, as it were. Now someone who buys a "Frozen Spit" stone is not crazy. They accept that aspect of the diamond in return for a very low price ( hopefully)

When it comes to color, that''s a horse of a different...well, you know.
That''s because a spot is a spot- it stares you in the face, and can be called an "imperfection".
Color, on the other shoe, is far more subjective. Light yellow diamonds, faint yellow diamonds, "off color" diamonds, colorless or near colorless- they can all be very beautiful and make a very good purchase for a lot of people. Natural diamonds of all colors, P1 diamonds- they''re are all DIAMONDS- and that''s what people want. Let them choose and respect thier choices.
Trying to say that a stone like this one might end up in a drill bit is kind of rediculous too, no?

 

[movie zombie]

and then there are those of us that find white/colorless diamonds simply BORING

....not garbage, just boring.

peace, movie zombie

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/15/2005 6:45:22 PM
Author: FireGoddess
I''m assuming DF meant that if you look at the color scale subjectively and call D the ''highest/best'' color and Z the ''lowest'', then a Y-Z or whatever so far down the scale would compare to a clarity grade so low down the chart that it would be below I3 or whatever.


I don''t know if that made sense, but I think that''s what the reference to P1 meant.

EXACTLY

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/15/2005 6:52:4 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren

Light yellow diamonds...

Trying to say that a stone like this one might end up in a drill bit is kind of rediculous too, no ?

That depends on how good one's fist punch is !