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I would greatly appreciate feedback on this diamond

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
Hello all!

This is my first post but I have been referencing the information in this forum for about a week, what a great resource!!

I will preface by saying, I'm impulsive, so I've already placed the order ...but of course, the next day you start second guessing yourself, at least I do.

Here it is:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.90-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2129950

This is the setting:
https://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/halo/platinum-twisted-pave-halo-engagement-ring-item-41149

Ideal Scope image is attached.

It is not too late for me to change the diamond and James Allen has a 30 day return policy, as you know. I would like some feedback on my choice and I am open to suggestions.

The total cost was $5,027 out the door, $3,130 for the diamond alone. We are a young couple and she would have no expectation for a perfect diamond, she owns no fine jewelry.

I selected this one because of its dimensions relative to the weight especially the spread and thin-medium girdle. As you can see I've made compromises to keep it in budget, $3,100 was really stretching it. The first thing I disregarded was fluorescence, I selected less than ideal proportions that I believe favor a brighter cut rather than fiery, and I'm hoping the pave halo setting will make up for that somewhat, the HCA calculator scored it at 0.7 "within TIC range" which seems very good. I am not concerned much about color, I'd bet 99.9% of people don't notice much of a difference in real world conditions and maybe the fluorescence will improve the appearance. My biggest unknown is how the inclusions will play with the strong fluorescence, I don't think slight haziness in bright sunlight would be bothersome and if it takes on a slight blue hue that might make it seem more special or interesting. If there are significant issues with cloudiness, haziness etc. I suppose I would just send it back.

My main goal is for her to get the occasional genuine compliment. What I want to avoid is having a friend or family member of hers criticize the ring, i.e. "if only you knew this before you bought it", "what’s wrong with it?" etc. however unlikely that may be.

I am a novice and have never bought, sold, or shopped for a diamond before. I know my thoughts and opinions might be way off the mark or even nonsensical and I'm sure there are some things I haven't thought to consider, so all comments are appreciated.

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts!

2129950.jpg
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
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10,795
Not the expert here but it looks pretty to me!
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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I see that you are aware of the strong fluorescence but not bothered that fact alone, but want to know how it might impact transparency. It's a somewhat complicated issue. There is an overview here:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

You can't predict the visual aspects of fluorescence from the report alone. You will need to see it yourself and examine it in and out of strong fluoro light to understand it thoroughly.
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
Texas Leaguer|1477347876|4090185 said:
I see that you are aware of the strong fluorescence but not bothered that fact alone, but want to know how it might impact transparency. It's a somewhat complicated issue. There is an overview here:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

You can't predict the visual aspects of fluorescence from the report alone. You will need to see it yourself and examine it in and out of strong fluoro light to understand it thoroughly.
Thank you for the info. I have read a few articles and threads, and my only definite conclusion is that it must ultimately bee seen in person to evaluate for haziness/milkiness. (makes sense!)

Are there any cut or clarity characteristics that are known to contribute to increased cloudiness under UV light that don't also affect the appearance in other lighting?
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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3,202
bensona|1477353268|4090219 said:
Texas Leaguer|1477347876|4090185 said:
I see that you are aware of the strong fluorescence but not bothered that fact alone, but want to know how it might impact transparency. It's a somewhat complicated issue. There is an overview here:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

You can't predict the visual aspects of fluorescence from the report alone. You will need to see it yourself and examine it in and out of strong fluoro light to understand it thoroughly.
Thank you for the info. I have read a few articles and threads, and my only definite conclusion is that it must ultimately bee seen in person to evaluate for haziness/milkiness. (makes sense!)

Are there any cut or clarity characteristics that are known to contribute to increased cloudiness under UV light that don't also affect the appearance in other lighting?
This is an interesting question. And one I have asked myself and speculated about. It does seem that strong fluoro is often associated with clarity characteristics such as twinning wisps that can sometimes, in and of themselves, diminish transparency. So the thought occurs that there might be some sort of compounding effect when both are present. I can tell you that I have discussed this with some folks who really know a lot about the topic and nobody really embraces that theory. :???:

While in my opinion, the transparency issue with fluoro is not a simple yes/no question and is more likely a matter of degree on a continuum, the bottom line is that you just have to inspect the stone in and out of strong fluoro (like direct sunlight) to see if there are any unappealing effects. It's best to have a clean, non fluoro stone to compare against because direct sunlight has effects on appearance apart from fluoro, so you sort of need to control for that in your observations.
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Feb 29, 2012
Messages
9,885
Im no expert, but that setting is really pretty and I haven't seen one like that before. Its unique and pretty; i think you did a good job on the setting (i cant comment on the diamond...)
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
whitewave|1477366056|4090294 said:
Im no expert, but that setting is really pretty and I haven't seen one like that before. Its unique and pretty; i think you did a good job on the setting (i cant comment on the diamond...)
Thanks for your opinion on the setting!

A couple years ago she had sent me pictures of a couple more traditional halo settings that she liked. So when I started shopping I scanned through what seems like hundreds of halo settings and this one really stood out. I hope she will want to keep it! It has a matching wedding band available as well.

I'll make sure to take plenty of photos when it gets here, hopefully the diamond works out too.
 

SparkleyCarats

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
10
It looks like it is going to be an absolutely stunning ring. I am sure your lady will love it. I know I certainly would! Great job!
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
SparkleyCarats|1477411811|4090428 said:
It looks like it is going to be an absolutely stunning ring. I am sure your lady will love it. I know I certainly would! Great job!

Thank you for your thoughts and compliment!! I think she will love it and I'm hoping she'll want to keep it instead of looking for another.

_____

To the experts, in regards to the diamond:

Does anyone have feedback on the price of the diamond? Does it seem fair? Does my reasoning for selecting it make sense? Did I miss anything? What would you have done differently?

I know that diamond selection is subjective and personal, but I would love to get the perspective of those that have much more experience than I.


Thank you so much to everyone that has taken a look and shared their thoughts!!!


I've attached screenshots of the diamond and sample setting for anyone that doesn't want to click on a link. screenshot_20161025-115727.png screenshot_20161025-120048.png screenshot_20161025-120232.png
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,245
The price is amazing. The spread is just ridiculous at 6.3+mm for a 0.9c. That is as spready as a well cut 0.95c or a poorly cut 1.0c. Ensure there is no haziness from strong fluo and SI1 twinning wisps when you see it person.

A great find
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
flyingpig|1477425576|4090489 said:
The price is amazing. The spread is just ridiculous at 6.3+mm for a 0.9c. That is as spready as a well cut 0.95c or a poorly cut 1.0c. Ensure there is no haziness from strong fluo and SI1 twinning wisps when you see it person.

A great find
Thank you so much for your feedback!!

Your comments help put my mind at ease about the purchase. As a first time buyer/shopper I couldn't help but wonder if I'd made a good choice.

Fingers crossed that the diamond will look great in person!


Once again, thank you PriceScope community for your time, effort and knowledge!! ...and for tolerating my excitement/enthusiasm :D
 

LadyMCh

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
318
That's a HUGE spread! As you said: If the flouro has no negative impact on the stone, it can have positive impact...like making it look whiter (along with the great cut helping this). And I agree that the average person would not be able to see color in such a well cut I-colored stone unless they're really scrutinizing it and putting it up against an equally well-cut stone that's a few shades whiter.
I have 2 diamonds with flouro. They're not in an e-ring, but it is pretty neat to watch the flouro appear in certain lighting conditions!

It seems you have done fantastically per your budget! The stone looks beautiful, and the substantial halo setting it going to make it look even bigger! I'm really impressed and touched by how much research and consideration you clearly put into finding such a beautiful stone that maximized your budget. It seems you may have found a unicorn of a diamond!

Please follow up with handshots and her reaction after you propose! I hope you love it when you see it in person!
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,245
I would like to note that the crown angle of 33.0 is a tad shallow to many PSer's liking
The diamond will excel in white light return and may not be as fiery as a true hearts & arrows.

However, for this one, it's about that PRICE and SPREAD, for which I may compromise a bit on fire and dispersion
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
LadyMCh,

Thank you for your thoughts and kind words! I will absolutely take and share plenty of photos, at least a single video, and my thoughts after seeing it in person, as well as the most important thing, my intended's reaction and thoughts.

I hope my expectations are not too high about the effect of the fluorescence, I figure that most scenarios that provide the conditions for strong UV lighting wouldn't be ones that encourage gazing at a diamond anyway, so even apparent effects might not really matter.

_____

flyingpig,

Thanks for your observation. I have not had much luck in tracking down comparison photos or videos for brilliant vs fiery cuts, can anyone point me in the right direction?


Based on the measurements of the diamond, how would one expect it's sparkle and scintillation to be?


In regards to the halo setting, other than adding sparkle and the illusion of a larger center stone, are there any other effects it might have on the center stone?




Ultimately this discussion might be for not if my girlfriend doesn't fancy the ring, but I will still have enjoyed learning these things!
 

LadyMCh

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
318
My 2 fluorescent stones are part of a ring. I like to check them out under the UV lights at the nail salon and have noticed them lighting up in black light conditions (like cosmic bowling and concerts). I think they're neat! If I ever get a solitaire pendant, I thought it would be fun to find a fluorescent diamond for it!
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,245
flyingpig,

Thanks for your observation. I have not had much luck in tracking down comparison photos or videos for brilliant vs fiery cuts, can anyone point me in the right direction?


Based on the measurements of the diamond, how would one expect it's sparkle and scintillation to be?
You will not find a video that compares stones with, say, 33/40.8, 33.5/40.8, 34/40.8, and 34.5/40.8.

If you re-do the HCA, you will noticed the "X" is slightly outside the solid outline, despite the good HCA score,handsome appearance of the diamond, and no light leakage. This is most likely due to deduction in dispersion/fire from of 33.0 crown angle, according to AGS light performance grading system.

In real-world, you can actually see difference in fire between diamonds with, say, 32.5/40.8 and 35/40.6.
I know this, because I have these stones in my family.

This does not mean the 32.5/40.8 is a bad stone. It is beautiful in its own right.
I cannot say which cut is the best for you.

I often recommend you should get a stone with the ideal proportions (34-35, 40.6-40.9, etc...)
Again, however, for this particular case, I would compromise a bit on fire for THAT SPREAD, since the entire purpose of getting a 0.9c stone is to get it as close to 1.0c.

A well cut 1.0c I VS2/SI1 costs 5.0k. 0.9c is about 4.0k at JA for VS2.
At 3.1k, this I SI1 is a steal.

That's me
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
I cannot wait to get it and see how it looks in person. I'll take pictures to share with all of you.

Thank you!
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
I had requested an ASET image along with the Ideal Scope image, but only received the IS. I asked the representative why and his response was:

... There is no ASET image for round cut diamonds. Only fancy shaped diamonds come with a ASET image. ASET images do not properly depict the performance on a round cut diamond. That is why only idealscope would be used when trying to measure and see a round cut diamonds light return...

Is this accurate? Have other PS members been able to see ASETs on RBCs?
The order has already been placed so I'll get to see it soon enough anyway, just wondering...
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
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1,449
It is true that ASET's main strength are fancy shapes. I do not agree that they do not properly depict the performance of rounds but can be more confusing to interpret for consumers, which may be more what they were trying to say. Saying that, an idealscope is sufficient for a round brilliant and an ASET would not add much to your assessment.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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bensona|1477610441|4091360 said:
I had requested an ASET image along with the Ideal Scope image, but only received the IS. I asked the representative why and his response was:

... There is no ASET image for round cut diamonds. Only fancy shaped diamonds come with a ASET image. ASET images do not properly depict the performance on a round cut diamond. That is why only idealscope would be used when trying to measure and see a round cut diamonds light return...

Is this accurate? Have other PS members been able to see ASETs on RBCs?
The order has already been placed so I'll get to see it soon enough anyway, just wondering...
That is not at all accurate. ASET is fundamental to the AGS Light Performance grading system, the most scientifically rigorous cut grading system available. The system is used to grade rounds, princess, ovals, emerald cuts and a variety of proprietary cuts such as H&A cushions. ASET images actually give you more information than Ideal Scope images in that you can tell not only where light is being returned to the eye, but where on the horizon that light is coming from, which makes a difference to performance. If you had only one image provided, you would want that to be ASET.

While ASET is clearly useful for evaluating fancies, interpretation ibecomes much more important and requires experience. With rounds, ASET (like Ideal Scope) is very straight forward.
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
gm89uk|1477615575|4091379 said:
It is true that ASET's main strength are fancy shapes. I do not agree that they do not properly depict the performance of rounds but can be more confusing to interpret for consumers, which may be more what they were trying to say. Saying that, an idealscope is sufficient for a round brilliant and an ASET would not add much to your assessment.

I see, I just read through another thread that explained this in depth. Thank you for your thoughts.
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
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Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
Texas Leaguer,


Thank you for your clearing that up.

I suppose they're offering a dumbed-down explanation sufficient for most of their customers. I don't think that I need the ASET, just thought it would be nice to have.


I'm eager to see the diamond in person!
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
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bensona|1477621537|4091413 said:
Texas Leaguer,


Thank you for your clearing that up.

I suppose they're offering a dumbed-down explanation sufficient for most of their customers. I don't think that I need the ASET, just thought it would be nice to have.


I'm eager to see the diamond in person!
Well, all diamonds in the history of the world were purchased without ASET until a few years ago, so I think it CAN be done. :))

Seeing the diamond in person is always the bottom line. Availability of modern diagnostics helps greatly in filtering your choices to the best available - particularly when internet shopping gives us so many options. And they allow us to fully understand the diamond we we do end up owning.

Good luck bensona. I hope the diamond rocks!
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
Well I finally got the ring today! ( about 2 weeks late and almost not in time for my plans)

I have not had a chance to take decent photos or videos, but I took these with my mobile phone, sorry for the poor quality:

https://youtu.be/OYr86dpBDl4



This second photo shows the fluor under direct sunlight, it really looks quite blue when you look at it straight on, but otherwise the stone is clear, white, and beautiful with no milkiness or haziness.



I've been too busy at work to examine it well, but so far I am really impressed!! I was worried that the diamond might not be fiery enough but it looks fantastic. I will take some better photos and let you all know how the proposal goes soon.

img_20161119_0.jpg

img_20161119_100250.jpg
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
This is a better quality close up, the room has "warm" LED lighting.




Does anyone have tips for photographing diamonds/jewelry? I just can't seem to get any good shots.

cimg0865.jpg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,245
google search: kenny pricescope diamond photography

kenny is a PSer, a professional photographer, who has given us tips on diamond photography.

Having that said, the last photo is nicely taken.
 

bensona

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
20
THANK YOU, THANK YOU EVERYONE!!! She said yes!!!!!

She was blown away by the ring! I actually managed to surprise her with the proposal too, she was mortified when I asked a stranger at the park to take our photo before she knew what was happening, haha. I plan on getting some better photos of the ring with her wearing it soon.

Thank you again PSers for all your help and knowledge!

cimg1129_3.jpg
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
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bensona|1479829675|4101474 said:
THANK YOU, THANK YOU EVERYONE!!! She said yes!!!!!

She was blown away by the ring! I actually managed to surprise her with the proposal too, she was mortified when I asked a stranger at the park to take our photo before she knew what was happening, haha. I plan on getting some better photos of the ring with her wearing it soon.

Thank you again PSers for all your help and knowledge!
Very cool. Thanks for sharing.

Congratulations and best of luck to both of you. :appl:
 
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