I think it's safer to NOT order take out from restaurants

[kenny]

When I shop for produce now I go right when the store opens.

That way fewer customers have coughed on, sneezed on, and touched the exposed produce.

Protection from CV-19 is not black and white.
It's about degrees.
It's about odds.
My age and medical conditions and facts about this virus really motivates me to lower my odds of exposure.

I realize some people think, getting take out is the same as shopping in a food store, which is the same as grocery delivery, which is the same as drive up, because all processes involve some number of strangers touching your food.
In their mind it's all equal risk.
But it's not.
More human contact = more risk.
And it's not just about face to face contact (Oh, but they leave it at my front door, or they have a drive up, so it's safe). Afraid not. There's still more (and unnecessary) humans in contact with what you're about to eat.

Of course zero risk is not possible, but lower risk is.
I think lots of people think, why bother? since since zero risk is not possible.
Poor thinking, IMO.
Then again apparently really do think saving someone else's business/job is more important than saving the lives of their family.
People surely do vary.

I'm gonna rack my brain and choose the process, no matter how inconvenient, so as few people as possible have contact with the food I eat.
Again, people are contagious days before they know they are and all that time they are out and about working and spreading the virus.

I don't see my perspective as fear.
I see it as reasonable and smart.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

When I shop for produce now I go right when the store opens.

That way fewer customers have coughed on, sneezed on, and touched the exposed produce.

Protection from CV-19 is not black and white.
It's about degrees.
It's about odds.
My age and medical conditions and facts about this virus really motivates me to lower my odds of exposure.

I realize some people think, getting take out is the same as shopping in a food store, which is the same as grocery delivery, which is the same as drive up, because all processes involve some number of strangers touching your food.
In their mind it's all equal risk.
But it's not.
More human contact = more risk.
And it's not just about face to face contact (Oh, but they leave it at my front door, or they have a drive up, so it's okay ).

Of course zero risk is not possible, but lower risk is.
I think lots of people think, why bother? since since zero risk is not possible.
Poor thinking, IMO.

I'm gonna rack my brain and choose the process, no matter how inconvenient, so as few people as possible has contact with the food I eat.
Again, people are contagious days before they know they are and all that time they are out and about working and spreading the virus.

It's still a moot point for hot food. Heat kills viruses efficiently.

Being disgusted by many strangers touching your food is an entirely different story... Just not related to Covid 19

Regarding the packaging: Your goods from the supermarket, morning or not, aren't safer, packaging wise. Store employees have handled them.

 

[voce]

I think both of you have valid points @kenny @kipari.

Not all take out is necessary going to be hot food. Some people have salad that's low temperature, cookies, bread that are room temp. I wouldn't worry too much about ordering hot foods, as you can always reheat them and kill the virus, but going to the grocery store right when it opens is smart, and if you can cook for yourself and are perfectly happy doing so, why worry about wiping down the take out containers?

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Well even if you go get produce first thing, hands have touched it possibly without gloves, I read yesterday all produce needs to be washed in soap and water.

Idk, even if you are buying from a store and cooking everything from scratch, lots of hands have touched those items, unless you are wiping down every single item all the sides and corners with a Lysol wipe, you are taking on some risk.

I don't consider buying a daily coffee out to put my family at risk anymore than DH having to go to multiple stores to find dispensers for hand sanitizer puts us at risk. I guess the difference is coffee is a choice, a paycheck for a lot of people is not.

 

[kenny]

Well even if you go get produce first thing, hands have touched it possibly without gloves, I read yesterday all produce needs to be washed in soap and water.

Idk, even if you are buying from a store and cooking everything from scratch, lots of hands have touched those items, unless you are wiping down every single item all the sides and corners with a Lysol wipe, you are taking on some risk.

I don't consider buying a daily coffee out to put my family at risk anymore than DH having to go to multiple stores to find dispensers for hand sanitizer puts us at risk. I

guess the difference is coffee is a choice, a paycheck for a lot of people is not.

I already wrote, "Of course zero risk is not possible, but lower risk is."

 

[Elizabeth35]

We cook at home--but we don't eat out more than maybe twice a month normally.
We have done one takeout pizza (college child is with us for quarantine).
We have not gone out of the house for 2 weeks. Stocked up about 4 weeks ago making sure we had one extra of everything.

We even made a large purchase at our Japanese market for makings for 3-4 sushi meals. So we will be able to have sashimi, rolls, and poke. If we run low we will order from Catalina Offshore.


We are supplementing with Amazon Fresh and Instacart for perishables. We dispose of exterior packaging in the garage, bring the groceries inside and wipe down packages and wash produce, and wash hands.
It's the best we can do.

Hope everyone stays well, and well-fed!

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

I think both of you have valid points @kenny @kipari.

Not all take out is necessary going to be hot food. Some people have salad that's low temperature, cookies, bread that are room temp. I wouldn't worry too much about ordering hot foods, as you can always reheat them and kill the virus, but going to the grocery store right when it opens is smart, and if you can cook for yourself and are perfectly happy doing so, why worry about wiping down the take out containers?

I'm not trying to argue with you, @voce.
Just trying to be clear about potential risks:

Regular shopping
You'd still have to wipe down all packagingog bought food vs containers. Same risk.

I'm just trying to make the point that many people seem to fight irrational fights atm.

The only way to fight this is :

Stay at home
Wash your hands


You're not safer buying groceries vs getting take out. It's purely the frequency of you getting out of your place.


It's a false feeling of security in both cases.

I'm all for home cooking. But the argument for home cooking isn't the number of people who have or haven't handled your food or packaging.

The only logical argument is exposure.
You shop weekly or fortnightly and homecook = risk lower.

You shop daily vs. daily take out (hot food) = same risk

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I already wrote, "Of course zero risk is not possible, but lower risk is."

I read what you wrote including this gem:

"Then again apparently really do think saving someone else's business/job is more important than saving the lives of their family."

Personally I thought that was a bit low but I try not to say things that would hurt someone's feelings. Obviously we are of two different minds.

 

[lyra]

We vote on everything. If everyone is okay with takeout from a restaurant, we will do it. If not, we don't. We do take precautions. Going to the grocery store is much worse. I am in quarantine, so I don't go out at all. We can't get anything delivered except food. We can't even get pick up service at the grocery store. It keeps selling out, and you get a date 8 days down the line. Fresh produce of any kind is becoming a thing of the past. Frozen is sold out. We don't have many choices where I live.

 

[Elizabeth35]

I read what you wrote including this gem:

"Then again apparently really do think saving someone else's business/job is more important than saving the lives of their family."

Personally I thought that was a bit low but I try not to say things that would hurt someone's feelings. Obviously we are of two different minds.

I see both sides of this. DH and I are in high risk groups. While I appreciate the struggle of small businesses (especially restaurants) in our area, I need to ensure we don't end up needing ventilators when none are available.
So we stay at home and cook at home--which is pretty much how we live normally.
I will buy gift cards for our frequented restaurants and use them when things simmer down.

 

[Elizabeth35]

And to be honest--everyone really needs to do what is better for the greater good.
I am self-isolating to hopefully slow the spread, so that our medical systems can handle the influx.
I am also self-isolation because I am high risk.

Getting fast food or coffee is not a priority for me, nor is it a risk I choose to take, nor is it a necessity.
Sorry for restaurants, but I feel it is more important to slow the spread of the virus. That is what is important right now.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I just feel really badly for these business owners, new business, new baby and they have employees to consider. On one hand I'm sure they would rather not take the chance exposing themselves and their young son but then they won't be able to survive. Really a tough spot.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I think both of you have valid points @kenny @kipari.

Not all take out is necessary going to be hot food. Some people have salad that's low temperature, cookies, bread that are room temp. I wouldn't worry too much about ordering hot foods, as you can always reheat them and kill the virus, but going to the grocery store right when it opens is smart, and if you can cook for yourself and are perfectly happy doing so, why worry about wiping down the take out containers?

You can make the decision to order hot food.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Last night's dinner. It was glorious

 

[kenny]

I love the freedoms we Americans enjoy.
Respect diversity is something usually I preach from the hilltops.

But when exercising a freedom increases the odds of harm to, and death of, others that freedom should be taken away.
Priorities people ... priorities!

Example: not vaccinating for measles, mumps, and rubella, MRR when there is no legitimate medical reason.

We don't have a CV-19 vaccination yet.
Until we have one, the only way to reduce the spread and rate of spread is well known.

We all should do whatever we can do to lower risk and save lives.
Our choice is: A sh!tload of dead old people vs. foregoing Big Macs for a while.
Hmm, tough choice.

The news reports China's peak has past.
If true, I suspect one reason is their citizens do not have the freedoms and sense of entitlement and liberty that we spoiled Americans have.
They obey their government, while Murikans stock up on guns.

 

[1ofakind]

They obey their government because their government will kill them and/or their families to keep them in line, without hesitation. In that context count me as a proud spoiled American! In a time like this it may seem easier to justify removing freedom in order to secure health or safety but you seem to be willing to stretch that line really far.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

It's worth noting that some places have taken every possible precaution. I can only speak for the coffee shop but they have a website where you order and pay online and then your order is put on a table for pickup. No interacting with the employees, no exchange of money or cards so assuming you wear gloves or sanitize before getting back in the car (door handles) it really is a rather safe transaction. Not 100% but it's obvious they are really going the extra mile.

I imagine many other businesses are doing the same.

 

[arkieb1]

@kenny - they interviewed an Aussie journalist that was in or near Wuhan, he said they contained the virus by locking down everyone for 60 days, if you wanted groceries or medicine it was dropped at your door, their citizens were not allowed to go outside for 60 days.

I've said it before, Westerners, the US, Australia, the UK, Italy and many other places are not used to being told what to do, we are not used to losing our civil liberties, half of the problem is we are being told nicely to stay at home yet people are not staying at home, because they somehow think the rules don't apply to them or they will get the virus and it will not impact them.

Countries best containing the virus like Singapore tell their citizens to stay at home and everyone does because they can get jailed and shot. It might get to a point where there has to be no fast food, all restaurants close down, and everyone has to be forced into staying indoors. Or the alternative is, like Italy that enough people die that it scares everyone into wanting to stay at home anyway.

 

[lyra]

Okay @kenny, for you, we won't order anymore takeout. We did not use fast food places, just one actual restaurant. It seems unlikely that my choices can help you, but thinking of the butterfly effect, perhaps my choice could hurt you and I wouldn't want to do that. You're in the US and I'm in Canada, but you never know.

 

[joelly]

It’s tougher for people who actually don’t know how to cook.

My coworker depends entirely on his wife in terms of food. Now his wife got brain tumor so she’s just finished with surgery and radiation etc. Since he can’t cook, he has to buy food from a next door restaurant.

All around, this is such a hard time for everyone.

 

[elizat]

It’s tougher for people who actually don’t know how to cook.

My coworker depends entirely on his wife in terms of food. Now his wife got brain tumor so she’s just finished with surgery and radiation etc. Since he can’t cook, he has to buy food from a next door restaurant.

All around, this is such a hard time for everyone.

True. And also there are issues with supplies. I can't buy bread, eggs, yeast, milk, any fruit but apples, grapes and lemons, no frozen or fresh vegetables are usually available, any meat other than odd cuts of beef isn't available, rice, pasta, potatoes, onions, etc., are out of stock. Our stores are very limited. If you don't know how to cook what is available to buy makes it even harder. Easy meals like eggs and toast aren't an option for many, I'd guess.

 

[Phoenix]

I see both sides of this. DH and I are in high risk groups. While I appreciate the struggle of small businesses (especially restaurants) in our area, I need to ensure we don't end up needing ventilators when none are available.
So we stay at home and cook at home--which is pretty much how we live normally.
I will buy gift cards for our frequented restaurants and use them when things simmer down.

This.

 

[Phoenix]

And to be honest--everyone really needs to do what is better for the greater good.
I am self-isolating to hopefully slow the spread, so that our medical systems can handle the influx.
I am also self-isolation because I am high risk.

Getting fast food or coffee is not a priority for me, nor is it a risk I choose to take, nor is it a necessity.
Sorry for restaurants, but I feel it is more important to slow the spread of the virus. That is what is important right now.

This.

 

[Phoenix]

It’s tougher for people who actually don’t know how to cook.

My coworker depends entirely on his wife in terms of food. Now his wife got brain tumor so she’s just finished with surgery and radiation etc. Since he can’t cook, he has to buy food from a next door restaurant.

All around, this is such a hard time for everyone.

I can imagine this and emphathise.

 

[kenny]

Okay @kenny, for you, we won't order anymore takeout. We did not use fast food places, just one actual restaurant. It seems unlikely that my choices can help you, but thinking of the butterfly effect, perhaps my choice could hurt you and I wouldn't want to do that. You're in the US and I'm in Canada, but you never know.

Well, thank you Lyra.
That' very kind and understanding of you.

But please don't do it for me.
I see it as doing one's part for the future all of humanity, kind of like recycling but a zillion times more important and urgent.

This thing sounds serious.

 

[MRBXXXFVVS1]

In addition to risks from more people handling your food, the nature of going out to get take-out or having delivery people drop off food creates more opportunities for the spread of coronavirus. I know a lot of businesses are impacted by this, but we can figure out how to help them later. We need to slow the spread of coronavirus and save lives at any economic cost.

 

[kenny]

@kenny - they interviewed an Aussie journalist that was in or near Wuhan, he said they contained the virus by locking down everyone for 60 days, if you wanted groceries or medicine it was dropped at your door, their citizens were not allowed to go outside for 60 days.

I've said it before, Westerners, the US, Australia, the UK, Italy and many other places are not used to being told what to do, we are not used to losing our civil liberties, half of the problem is we are being told nicely to stay at home yet people are not staying at home, because they somehow think the rules don't apply to them or they will get the virus and it will not impact them.

Countries best containing the virus like Singapore tell their citizens to stay at home and everyone does because they can get jailed and shot. It might get to a point where there has to be no fast food, all restaurants close down, and everyone has to be forced into staying indoors. Or the alternative is, like Italy that enough people die that it scares everyone into wanting to stay at home anyway.

Then perhaps if this gets as bad as some predict, our old friend Darwin will determine which political system ultimately survives.
... Survival of the fittest, and all.

 

[kenny]

Coronavirus: How safe are takeaways and supermarket deliveries?

If coronavirus can be transferred on to surfaces, what are the risks of buying food?

www.bbc.com

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I don't pack lunch. I work in a hospital and eat there. I have for >30 years. Essential staff working in hospitals appreciate when food is brought because they can't get a break to get out and eat.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Dancing Fire]

Last night's dinner. It was glorious

My kind of food.. salt and pepper ribs, crab and (fun see) vermicelli?