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DiamondDealHunter

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2003
Messages
37
The first one is the one I am leaning towards because of the higher HCA score, but I plan on having three stones sent to Mr. Atlas to see next to eachother and choose one...the third I am thinking of something smaller in a H&A. Few questions I hope you all can help me with. On paper they seem like nice stones.

Shape Round Ideal Cut Round Ideal Cut
Carat 1.200 1.300
Color E I
Clarity SI2 VS1
Measurements 6.97-6.88*4.14 7.07*6.97*4.34
Table % 56 56
Depth % 59.7 61.8
Crown % 14 14
Pavilion % 42 44
Polish Excellent Excellent
Symmetry Excellent Excellent
Girdle MED FA THIN FAC
Culet None None
Fluorescence Faint None
Certificate EGL EGL
Price $5,007.00 $5,412.00

* If this were to be sitting next to a H&A diamond would I notice the difference? I ask only because I have never seen one in person.
* It is certified by EGL with a cert no beginning with 22, I''ve seen people ask about EGL...does this matter? It is also a nice bit cheaper than a stone I saw on PS with similar specs certified by AGS.
* Is the flourescence anything to be concerned about?
* When do I stop looking, I may go crazy over this?
All opinions wanted. Thanks a lot for all the help and education.

Sergio
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144
I'd be careful about the EGL cert beginning with 22.....I suspect it was graded by a location in Europe instead of in US....euro locations far more "generous" or lenient in grading.

You should be able to check the cert on EGL's website if it was done through US location. Go to www.egl.com; click on results.

When do you stop looking? When you find the diamond that you "feel in your gut" is the one you'll be happy with. You'll know it when you find it because your desire to compare others to it will diminish and you'll feel satisfied with choosing it.
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
At first glance, the first thought I have is "that's quite a spread" in terms of quality. A color range from "E" to "I" and a clarity range from SI-2 to VS-1. What are you looking for in a diamond? Are you willing to accept inclusions that can be seen without magnification? Because that is probable in an SI-2 clarity diamond regardless of which laboratory graded the stone... We reject a lot of SI-1 clarity diamonds for not being "eye clean" - only you can decide what level of clarity and visibility of inclusions is acceptable to you. There will be a visual difference between an "E" and an "I" color stone, think of the difference between a sheet of Kodak photo quality printing paper and a standard sheet of copy paper. Perhaps you might consider something in the middle of the ranges you are considering? Something like an F-G, SI-1 or VS-2 clarity stone.
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
We have to split this apart because it won't all fit on one thread...
Ideal? Who's "ideal" are you basing the statement on? A pavilion depth of 44% puts the second diamond in the proportions range of AGS-1 Excellent - not AGS-0 Ideal Cut. That aside, we prefer a proportions combination based on angles as opposed to percentages because the equipment that measures diamonds actually measures the angles and estimates the percentage measurements for the crown and pavilion measurements. Our preferred range for these measurements is between 34.3 - 34.8 degrees for the crown angle and 40.5 - 40.9 degrees for the pavilion angle. YES - I'm going to say it right now - it is "possible" to find diamonds beyond this "preferred range" that are equally brilliant and dispersive! This is just our preferred range, take it for what it is - an opinion!
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
And finally...
EGL - never liked them... Won't sell them. Don't participate in "paper games" or games of chance... Believe that the AGS and GIA laboratories are more accurate, more consistent, and worth more in the open market. Nearly EVERY time we've brought in an EGL graded diamond for evaluation, we have rejected it because we have not agreed with the paper... Yes, we reject a fair amount of GIA / AGS graded diamonds for the same reason, but the percentage is much lower and when you're buying sight unseen you should do everything you can to increase your odds of success. Have you seen clarity photographs of the diamonds you are considering? You should so that you have a reasonable idea of what to expect "in reality" when you loupe the stone - they look different on paper than in reality.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
If I were to suggest one over the other with regards to cut I'd suggest the 1.20. However when I think of what EGL calls an SI2 ... they are MESSY.

Would you see a difference between what you're looking at vs an H&A? I show this to people all the time on a daily basis. Some might say little difference some would say ALOT of difference. I generally avoid EGL stones altogether Sergio but I know you're looking to get size at a budget.

If you don't want to go the bucks for a serious cut quality rock accompanied by a report from a conservative lab (GIA or AGS) and you are willing to go to SI2 stones from EGL I would strongly suggest you consider clarity enhanced diamonds.

1. They will face up better as the inclusions will not be as noticeable with the human eye.
2. I know that you can get them in ideal cut qualities (which you can at least then run through the HCA to check your scores).

If you'd like to see some interesting info, I just posted an "ideal" cut I happened to analyse today. Many people are under the assumption that all ideals have the same brilliancy. While Gary's tutorial answers the question as well, this is a nice page for newbies as it includes some graphics to demonstrate.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/internalcutanalysis.htm

Hope that helps.

Rhino
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
And I would have to give a hearty "AMEN" to all that.


I had a chance to inspect today a 1.3xct F SI1 with unorthodox proportions that also fell "outside the range" that was absolutely gorgeous.

Is that you Robin?


Peace,
Rhino
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
Clarity enhancement, I see nothing wrong with it as long as you "understand" what you're buying and it is properly disclosed, see http://www.niceice.com/treatments.htm for some insight, and they are available with ideal proportions. Recommend a higher clarity for minimal treatment.

Hey Rhino, it's Todd, but Robin is ten feet to my right sorting parts for tomorrow's jobs
call me, we have some news for you 888-642-3423 or catch me on MSN / ICQ / AIM / Yahoo.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
I'm on hoss!!! GIVE ROBIN OUR WUV AND KISSES!


My user name on everything is goodoldgold. IM me.

Peace,
Rhino
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
If the cert number starts with 22, then EGL Israel graded these stones. Be VERY careful, especially w/ the SI 2 - E, as they overgrade clarity very easily and they make TERRIBLE mistakes if a stone has some fluorescence. I agree with niceIce, there's a huge spread in terms of quality: one is (should be
) very white and eye cleanish, while the other may be (will be
) a bit tinted, but totally eye clean(unless EGL grader is blind
). Be sure to get the stones checked by a reputable appraiser.

Giangi
 

DiamondDealHunter

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2003
Messages
37
Dammit, I guess I am not done. I have read about the EGL office in Israel and when I hear something compe up as an issue more than once I always find it to have merrit. With that said, I'll probably look some more for an AGS and/or GIA rated stone to have sent with the 1.2, but reading on how EGL grades, it is sounding more like an I1 or 2, which I definetely don't want and the other is probably a Q color....LOL.
Thanks guys
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Wise decision... Keep looking... There are nicer stones than the one you've proposed and with a bit of research you'll be able to find the diamonds of your dreams. As for the Q color, they are not so bad(almost
)... As for the I 2 clarity, yes you're right, this happened several times
!!
Good luck!

Giangi
 
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