I need to touch basses with Jordy

[kenny]

What you said about Fender basses stuck in my mind.
In post #13 of this thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/calling-all-guitar-lovers.219278/#post-4458634 you wrote, "I now understand the Fender-thing and I'm considering a P-Bass in my collection, or maybe a J after I saw one used in a youtube cover and it was also a tone-monster."

Well, lookie what Santa dropped down my chimney ... https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...-bass-3-color-sunburst-with-maple-fingerboard.

I'm not a bass player.
I'm a lifelong guitar player who's always wanted to learn bass ... at home ... then we'll see where it goes.
So now I'm amp shopping.
I don't need skull melting SPL to fill a hall, though I would like pure full strong fundamentals for the lowest notes right here in my living room.

I'm comparing the mid-level Fender Rumbles ... https://www.fender.com/en-US/bass-amplifiers/rumble/

Here's what's rumbling around my head ...

I know the biggest speakers 15" and 18" are better at producing the fundamental of the lowest notes better than 10s or 12s.
But I also know putting 2, 4, 6, 8 smaller speakers, like 10s, in the same cab move more air than one 10" can.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect multiple 10s in one cab could not deliver fundamentals that are as clean and free from low end roll off as a single 15" could, right?
IOW the actual freq response plot of one 10" will be the same as a plot of 6 10s in a cab.
The cab with 6 10s can just handle more power and get louder.
But its plot of frequence response will still start to roll off at a higher freq than a single 15 would. Right?

Also I know the biggest speakers cones roll off the highest freqs, physics and all.
But I DO like that click-like tone the Ricks have, though I decided on a Fender Jazz since it has more tone flexibility than a Precision.
I'm thinking a cab containing 2 10s and a compression driver/tweeter might be the best compromise for home practicing.

Penny for your thoughts.
Rather, a 5-cent Aussie coin.

 

[kenny]

@jordyonbass
I forgot the @ alert thingie.

 

[Karl_K]

speakers is a thing I know a thing or 2 about.
The problem with base guitar and speakers is they can go deep but they are also fast.
A good solid 12" will sound better than anything larger because it can move faster than a 15" or 18" at far less power.
My actual favorite for playing songs with fast bass tracks in a car is multiple 10s.
They clip the lowest of lows compared to a 12+ but they also have less auto body sound distortion so they sound awesome.

 

[Karl_K]

IOW the actual freq response plot of one 10" will be the same as a plot of 6 10s in a cab.
The cab with 6 10s can just handle more power and get louder.
But its plot of frequence response will still start to roll off at a higher freq than a single 15 would. Right?

Correct but not the whole story..
10s will track faster than a 15 on fast complex beats.
This was the song I used to demo this back in the day.

 

[jordyonbass]

That's a beautiful Bass @kenny
Will bring you many hours of low end happiness!

I've always preferred 10s for my speaker cab, usually a 4 x 10 arrangement. But I also have some really zingy tone with my sound, something like a 2 x 12 may be what you're after. I've had a 2 x 15 before and it was the worst purchase I'd ever made, I only bought it because Duff McKagan from Guns n Roses used it for their first tour of Australia.

If you want to see an absolutely brilliant Bassist, look up Charles Berthoud on YouTube. I remember you were impressed by Victor Wooten and his ability to play rhythm, melody and percussion all in one instrument. Charles is much the same, but he has a more classical approach to his playing. His ability to separate his hands to play different parts simultaneously is some of the best I've ever seen.

 

[Karl_K]

Wanted to also add that sealed box speakers will give you better sound than a ported box or a passive radiator but less volume per watt.
They are also generally much larger but have a more true controlled sound when combined with a great amp.
Ported boxes tend to sound a little wheezy and passive radiators can be muddy.
My hearing is bad enough these days they all sounds the same but back in the day could clearly hear the difference.

 

[jordyonbass]

@kenny it's been so bloody long since I've had my head in amps, I had to go look up some of your questions

Having looked at the rumble options, personally I would pick the Rumble 100 that has the 12 inch speaker for your home use applications. My old guitar tech had one and it sounded great with any Fender Bass plugged into it

 

[kenny]

Thanks Karl and Jordy.

I just found out a friend of a friend has a Rumble 500 combo for sale.
1 yr old, never gigged, mint condition for $500.
New after tax they go for $720.
Also the warranty is transferable to new owners.

2x10x, 500w @ 4 ohms/ 350w @ 8 ohms, no tubes/valves of course.
Obviously in a home I don't need a tenth of that power, but it does have a volume knob.
Am I wrong to assume a powerful amp won't sound right at low volume?

If I go to check it out what do I look/listen for besides a damaged speaker breaking up at high volume?
(I'll bring earplugs.)

I strongly considered the 100 with the 12" speaker you mentioned, but it doesn't' have a compression horn tweeter like the 500 has.
I really want very flexible tone the can include the high frequency component I often hear on some bass setups, one reason I choose a J bass over a P.
The compression horn/tweeter in the 500 can be switched off on the back.

Also, I read the largest speakers need huge rooms to properly develop the lowest notes and may sound mushy in a room that's too small.

 

[jordyonbass]

Thanks Karl and Jordy.

I just found out a friend of a friend has a Rumble 500 combo for sale.
1 yr old, never gigged, mint condition for $500.
New after tax they go for $720.
Also the warranty is transferable to new owners.

2x10x, 500w @ 4 ohms/ 350w @ 8 ohms, no tubes/valves of course.
Obviously in a home I don't need a tenth of that power, but it does have a volume knob.
Am I wrong to assume a powerful amp won't sound right at low volume?

If I go to check it out what do I look/listen for besides a damaged speaker breaking up at high volume?
(I'll bring earplugs.)

I strongly considered the 100 with the 12" speaker you mentioned, but it doesn't' have a compression horn tweeter like the 500 has.
I really want very flexible tone the can include the high frequency component I often hear on some bass setups, one reason I choose a J bass over a P.
The compression horn/tweeter in the 500 can be switched off on the back.

Also, I read the largest speakers need huge rooms to properly develop the lowest notes and may sound mushy in a room that's too small.

I've never had a tweeter and I've got some pretty trebly tone with my Warwick, Karl definitely knows a lot more on this than I do but I have never felt those features make a huge difference on smaller amps (500w is a different kettle of fish though), then again I also have tinnitus thanks to some of the insanely loud gigs I played in the early years so I probably hear those highs more than others.

The 500 would be very versatile though, it's about as big as a practice amp wants to be and it's also an amp that would be suitable for small rock club gigs. 500w is huge power though but I would think that with the 2 x 10s it would still sound good at lower volume settings, I run 350w via a Hartke LH350 through a Warwick 4 x 10 cab that's rated at 300w if I recall correctly and that thing pushes big amounts of air. I've never have that thing turned up passed 7 on the dial, we played a gig at the bottom of a Mountain once and the radio tower up top could hear me playing the Super Mario Brothers theme
I'm not entirely sure how the Rumble 500 with 2 x 10 inch speakers would differ audio-wise to my setup, the obvious to me is that the 500 doesn't push as much air and isn't as loud but I reckon Karl might be able to school us here.

 

[Karl_K]

Also, I read the largest speakers need huge rooms to properly develop the lowest notes and may sound mushy in a room that's too small.

Yes it can, one way around it is a live end,dead end setup.
That kills the reflections that bounce off the opposite wall(dead end) so you dont get the out of phase echo.
Studios I know less about, my background is car audio but did help design a few home setups and talked to a owner of a professional studio to get tips.

 

[Karl_K]

I'm not entirely sure how the Rumble 500 with 2 x 10 inch speakers would differ audio-wise to my setup, the obvious to me is that the 500 doesn't push as much air and isn't as loud but I reckon Karl might be able to school us here.

To many variables.

 

[Karl_K]

Modern amps run much better at lower power settings than older amps. Since bass amps need a lot of reserve to handle the amperage needed they are usually fine at lower levels.

 

[Karl_K]

What I would be listening for is clean tones and no echos, whistles or flapping sounds.
Check each driver visually for damage or not matching the others.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Congrats on the Bass Kenny!!!
Gotta love that Jass Bass.

Personally, I prefer smaller amps for many reasons.... they're lighter, and for playing in smaller rooms, it's kind of frustrating if you can't turn the amp up past 1.

I really love Hartke...maybe even something like this

Hartke HD15 1x6.5" 15-watt Bass Combo Amp

1x6.5" 15W Bass Combo with HyDrive Paper/Aluminum Speaker

www.sweetwater.com

Acoustic makes a nice sound tiny amp.....this li'l guy

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Acoustic/B100C-1X12-100W-Bass-Combo-with-Tilt-Back-Cab-Black-1500000218513.gc?source=4WWMWXGL&storeCode=&source=4WWRWXGL&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtrSLBhCLARIsACh6Rmh_CQubw_lMqEYPy0t0Bg8wCzAXN7BeUfUpLdBqjRM86mrjMM6j-Y4aAokkEALw_wcB

If you're up to shopping in person, and there's a Sam Ash, or Guitar center close by, I strongly recommend checking out the selection in person as each of them has sonic tendencies...some you will love more than others...

Like diamonds, it's very personal in terms of what we love

 

[Rockdiamond]

Or...if you really detest your neighbors...

https://ampeg.com/products/classic/svtvr/

 

[lambskin]

Congrats on the Bass Kenny!!!
Gotta love that Jass Bass.

Personally, I prefer smaller amps for many reasons.... they're lighter, and for playing in smaller rooms, it's kind of frustrating if you can't turn the amp up past 1.

But can it go up to eleven?

 

[jordyonbass]

Congrats on the Bass Kenny!!!
Gotta love that Jass Bass.

Personally, I prefer smaller amps for many reasons.... they're lighter, and for playing in smaller rooms, it's kind of frustrating if you can't turn the amp up past 1.

I really love Hartke...maybe even something like this

Hartke HD15 1x6.5" 15-watt Bass Combo Amp

1x6.5" 15W Bass Combo with HyDrive Paper/Aluminum Speaker

www.sweetwater.com

The absolute BEST sounding amp I have ever used was the LH350 through one of their HyDrive 410 cabs. No pedals, nothing fancy and it just sounded so rumbly and clear with my 5 banger but had plenty of bright tones too. That experience was what made me buy the LH350 I have now.

 

[jordyonbass]

Modern amps run much better at lower power settings than older amps. Since bass amps need a lot of reserve to handle the amperage needed they are usually fine at lower levels.

True, you really have to crank those old tube amps but good lawd do they sound good when you do

 

[Karl_K]

True, you really have to crank those old tube amps but good lawd do they sound good when you do

agree sorta.
Its mainly that todays amps are not that well designed.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Its mainly that todays amps are not that well designed.

Interesting point Karl....When playing guitar, I'm totally a "tube" man. Fender amps from the mid 70's and earlier really have "that sound"......there are hand wired expensive amps today that are also really good.

But for bass.....solid state amps are generally really good- and in that department- there's a lot of newer tech that's pretty darn good......

For pedal steel...it's such a mixed bag. I do stick with Fender tube amps- bua lot of the best Pedal Steel players use solid state amps....they're so darn light too!
There are reportedly awesome

Quilter Labs

Home of Quilter Amplifiers and Neunaber effects. World's best digital effects and analog solid state guitar amplification.

www.quilterlabs.com

( sorry if I scared Kenny away

 

[Rockdiamond]

Anyone ever seen a Jaguar Bass Before? ( with the matching headstock)

 

[jordyonbass]

Anyone ever seen a Jaguar Bass Before? ( with the matching headstock)

That was Kurt Cobain's guitar of choice if I recall correctly? Never been swayed one way or another by them to be honest.

Lately I've been absolutely IN LOVE with the sound of Dingwall basses though, they're just so beastly. The price tag is scary though...

 

[kenny]

Thanks all for the info and help guys.

News update:
That guy selling the Fender Rumble 500 changed his mind about selling. Grrr.
But another music friend has had a Hartke combo bass amp that has been just sitting unused in his office for 5 years.
He said I may borrow it for free as long as I want.

It's about 10 years old and that model is no longer made.
The most-similar amp Hartke sells today is ...

Hartke KB15 Kickback 1 x 15-inch 500-watt Bass Combo Amp

500W 1x15" Bass Guitar Amplifier Combo with Paper/Aluminum Speaker Cone, Neodymium Magnet, Plywood Cabinet, 3-band EQ, Shape Control, and Balanced XLR Output

www.sweetwater.com

"Mine" is a Hartke Model HA1200, 1x15" speaker, 125 w into 8 ohms.
No compression horn/tweeter but it has really clear and sparkling highs.
Maybe that's because, instead of the usual paper, its speaker cone is all aluminum.
I love that it has a headphone jack; amplified bass really carries which can be annoying for others to have to listen to.

It has great tone.
Now I can start learning bass.
In time I'll know what I'm doing and not be so blind when amp shopping.
I'm studying music theory too to take my music to the next level, for improvising and composition.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Lately I've been absolutely IN LOVE with the sound of Dingwall basses though, they're just so beastly. The price tag is scary though.

Wow!!!!
Jordy- in the first clip the guy is playing a four string bass with “slanted” frets. I’ve seen these before and I’m super curious. Is the low string E??
I’ve seen one of my favorite bassists -Lee Sklar playing one.
@kenny … so cool. I have that exact Hartke amp. It’s amazing. A bit large for home use but other than that, perfect tone. Even at low volume.
Speaking of Lee…. He’s got some amazing YouTube videos where he bs’s about the industry and then plays. He’s played with so many of my heroes.
in this video he shows us how he played the part on “Doctor My Eyes”
Always a favorite song of mine…. The bass is pretty much the lead instrument. He does make it look so easy….

 

[jordyonbass]

Wow!!!!
Jordy- in the first clip the guy is playing a four string bass with “slanted” frets. I’ve seen these before and I’m super curious. Is the low string E??

God no hahaha that Bass was tuned to AGCF, drop tuned by something like 3 and a half steps??

 

[Rockdiamond]

God no hahaha that Bass was tuned to AGCF, drop tuned by something like 3 and a half steps??

Yes, listening again......it's looooooooow

Could such a bass be played in standard tuning?

 

[jordyonbass]

Yes, listening again......it's looooooooow

Could such a bass be played in standard tuning?

Of course! The guy in the second vid that is playing so many ghost notes that the song is basically a Bass guitar graveyard - I am pretty sure his 6 string bass is tuned to standard (BEADGC), so he gets an extra low B and extra high C strings over a standard tuned 4 string Bass (EADG) but it is still tuned to standard for what it is.

I would guess Adam 'Nolly' Getgood from the first video would have had a luthier do some work on that Bass for his tone to be so crisp, just from tuning one of my own 4 strings to AEAD I learnt that some work needs to be done on the bridge saddles and nut to accommodate that low A. The usual E string on a 4 string is somewhere around a 95-110 gauge string, I was trying to put a 135 in the slots and they just wouldn't take it. I love one of the top comments on the first vid; he needs his own signature crunchy peanut butter to go along with that tone

Dammit this is making me want a Dingwall bass so baaaaad. My wallet is screaming RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAY!!

 

[jordyonbass]

Thanks all for the info and help guys.

News update:
That guy selling the Fender Rumble 500 changed his mind about selling. Grrr.
But another music friend has had a Hartke combo bass amp that has been just sitting unused in his office for 5 years.
He said I may borrow it for free as long as I want.

It's about 10 years old and that model is no longer made.
The most-similar amp Hartke sells today is ...

Hartke KB15 Kickback 1 x 15-inch 500-watt Bass Combo Amp

500W 1x15" Bass Guitar Amplifier Combo with Paper/Aluminum Speaker Cone, Neodymium Magnet, Plywood Cabinet, 3-band EQ, Shape Control, and Balanced XLR Output

www.sweetwater.com

"Mine" is a Hartke Model HA1200, 1x15" speaker, 125 w into 8 ohms.
No compression horn/tweeter but it has really clear and sparkling highs.
Maybe that's because, instead of the usual paper, its speaker cone is all aluminum.
I love that it has a headphone jack; amplified bass really carries which can be annoying for others to have to listen to.

It has great tone.
Now I can start learning bass.
In time I'll know what I'm doing and not be so blind when amp shopping.
I'm studying music theory too to take my music to the next level, for improvising and composition.

I think the Hartke setup I fell in love with had the aluminium comes as well. They sound soooo good.

Can we expect videos of you playing Classical Thump by Victor Wooten any time soon?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Speaking of bass related matters...
I'm totally psyched.
A buddy of mine who plays around local bars is putting together a ZZ Top tribute, and he asked me to play bass.

Now I need a Telecaster Bass...
This one is not too far from me...

Fender Telecaster Bass 1971 - 1979 | Reverb

Compare prices on 3-bolt, humbucker-equipped Telecaster basses on Reverb.

reverb.com

( just what I need, another axe....I guess I can sleep on the couch for a while

 

[kenny]

Very cool.
I didn't even know that Fender made basses in the Tele style.