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I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice please

Gailey

Gailey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
3,783
Ladies and Gentlemen

I need to buy a microscope for soil microbiology analysis. I will likely buy a camera for it as well. It would be nice if it could do double duty so that I can look at my gems in my spare time.

Now, to date, what I know about microscopes you can scribe on my thumbnail and still have room for Desiderata. I have no idea if a model for looking at gems is going to be suitable for what I need for identifying microorganisms or not.

If you have one, could you share with me the model and key features. For instance, the one I was using today was lit from below. It struck me that to look at a gem, the light source maybe better suited above, but I really have no idea.

Any advice or pointers would be very much appreciated.

And if by chance their are any gem fanatical, soil microbiologists out there, please make yourself known (I'm assured help is available ;)) )

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

I don't know a lot but that you need one that can do a dark field so that the light comes actually from the sides, in order to better display the inclusions. You could look at the expensive binocular gem microscope descriptions and see what compares to the soil microscopes. I'm just starting to get some gem identification tools and a microscope is on my list in a year or so.

Laura

edited to add:
http://reviews.ebay.com/GEM-MICROSCOPES ... 0003015890
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

i don't know what soil biologists need to look at but i have an old meiji "student" microscope that was purchased to monitor parasite load in one of my fish tanks and i think it's just far too powerful for general gemmological study (i was monitoring an organisim 30-50 microns in size). i have used it to view my stones with it, but i think it's just too much (field is small, lighting is poor). i would start by finding out what power you needed for soil biology first.
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

I spent a long time scope hunting, and bought a Kruess 5600. The optics are excellent, it's got variable zoom, darkfield and overhead lighting, and a camera tube. The eyepieces that come with take it up to 40x, but you can buy stronger ones and swap them out as needed. It's also quite comfortable for me (5'4" tall) although if I spent all day on it I'd have needed a tilting model.

For gems it's good to have a fibre optic light source, but often getting that built in the scope is more expensive (and certainly less adaptable for use with other tools) than a free-standing light source.

I use the scope 4-5 hours a week on average. This is a good sized model, but not huge. It sits on my desk looking all cute (and covered) when not in use.

Cheers,

Lisa
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

bestlabdeals.com

edmundoptics.com

these are the two places I would look if I wanted a scope. I have bought from both. bld has some great deals edmund is an old established company supplying all things optic
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

You guys, you guys! Thank you sooooooooooooooooooo much. This is just the kind of thing I want to hear.

I will talk to my course instructor tomorrow, she's a micro biologist and tell her what I want to do in addition to look for flagellates and ciliates and the like. I have a lot to learn, but I have learned enough tonight to know not to buy the model I am using on my soil course as it only has one light source at the bottom. Maybe I will take one of my pretties in with me so that she can see what I am trying to do.

I haven't checked the websites yet that you have suggested yet, so have no idea what such a machine is going to cost me. It can't eat up any of my setting budget, but as it's a legitimate business expense, I should be able to spend a little bit of pocket change on it.

Forgive me, I would normally take the time to respond personally to each of you, but I have to run off to bed now and read my microscope manual for looking at compost tea samples, so I am prepped for tomorrow.
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

I think first you have to find out what power you need.
Next decide if you want (or can afford) true stereo or those scopes that show the same image in both eyes or the ones that offer an image to only one eye.

I worked for years with fine German $12,000 Ziess Stemi-11s which were true stereo scopes that went up to 66x.
The system is flexible so you could add tons of gadgets like cameras.

There is SOOOOOO much more to consider than magnification.
You can buy a 1000x at a toy store for $30 or you could pay $100,000 for a 100x.

Obviously resolution or sharpness is one thing you get with better optics.
Another thing (this may be called field of view) is how large the cone of light is.
The larger the better but the more expensive it will be, since all the lenses must have a greater diameter.
With a smaller cone of light you have to hold your head precisely still and it feels like you are looking through two cardboard toilet paper roll tubes.
You may not notice how annoying this is unless you try a better scope with a larger cone, or field of view. (this is not magnification)
With a larger cone your head can move back and forth a bit and you'll still see the image.

Next there is working distance.
You may not want a scope that needs to almost touch the subject to focus on it.

If you will be using it for 8 hours a day you really should spend more money to get a better one to prevent eye strain.
Try lots of them before you buy.

Don't forget to leave room in the budget for good lighting.
The best scope with cheap lighting is a waste of money.

Picture 1.png
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

Thanks Kenny

Today all I managed (not very well), was to unpack the new microscope, bolt on the binocular eyepiece, install the condenser and 3 objective lenses (4X, 10X, 40X). Oh and a blue filter that slotted into the iris diaphram.

I had a hell of a job centering and focussing the damn thing so I could see one circle of light with two eyes open at the same time. I was begining to think that my eyes must be in significant different places to the eyes whose lashes I was liberally applying mascara to at 7:30 this morning. Hell they looked level in the mirror. What gives?????

I'm still not sure I've finally got it as we didn't actually look at anything today as the microorganisms were still happily multiplying in a bubbling witches brew to one side.

I did my best to center the condenser but the light image was bouncing around all over the place unless I kept my head completely still. It felt a bit like a cheap pair of birding binoculars I once owned.

I'd like to understand the differences between darkfield and brightfield, as I think that may be an issue with the two different things I want to look at - slides for the compost tea stuff and chunkier gems. Will that mean I will need interchangeable stages for instance? Does such a thing exist? Will it be exorbidantly priced if it does?

I think once I move to Ontario, I will ask my course instructor to help me find one if she understands the concept of looking at gems as well as fungi and bacteria.

You've been great guys, thanks again.

XX
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

Can you share what you ended up with?

Laura
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

Gailey said:
Thanks Kenny

Today all I managed (not very well), was to unpack the new microscope, bolt on the binocular eyepiece, install the condenser and 3 objective lenses (4X, 10X, 40X). Oh and a blue filter that slotted into the iris diaphram.

I had a hell of a job centering and focussing the damn thing so I could see one circle of light with two eyes open at the same time. I was begining to think that my eyes must be in significant different places to the eyes whose lashes I was liberally applying mascara to at 7:30 this morning. Hell they looked level in the mirror. What gives?????

I'm still not sure I've finally got it as we didn't actually look at anything today as the microorganisms were still happily multiplying in a bubbling witches brew to one side.

I did my best to center the condenser but the light image was bouncing around all over the place unless I kept my head completely still. It felt a bit like a cheap pair of birding binoculars I once owned.

I'd like to understand the differences between darkfield and brightfield, as I think that may be an issue with the two different things I want to look at - slides for the compost tea stuff and chunkier gems. Will that mean I will need interchangeable stages for instance? Does such a thing exist? Will it be exorbidantly priced if it does?

I think once I move to Ontario, I will ask my course instructor to help me find one if she understands the concept of looking at gems as well as fungi and bacteria.

You've been great guys, thanks again.

XX
Click to expand...

It gets better with practice! I settle into my scope immediately, but often have a few minutes of awkwardness on someone else's.

For gems, both darkfield and brightfield matter. Brightfield lets you look at surface features, like blemishes, polish, chips... Darkfield comes from underneath the stone and lets you look more closely at inclusions. 80% of my time is spent in darkfield.

A fibre optic light is tricky to use at first (hand placement of the flex tube means it's up to you to get it right :-) but gives much more control over where you place the light so if you're doing gem ID and have a tricky inclusion, you can get it illuminated just right.

The sky is the limit on what you can spend. The best thing to do is to talk with your local gemmos as well as you teacher, decide on the features you need and what you can live without, and then see what fits the needs. For me, separate head and stages didn't matter. Neither did tilt. The Kruess ran me under 2k USD which left me plenty left over for other equipment.

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

Gailey said:
I'd like to understand the differences between darkfield and brightfield, as I think that may be an issue with the two different things I want to look at - slides for the compost tea stuff and chunkier gems. Will that mean I will need interchangeable stages for instance? Does such a thing exist? Will it be exorbidantly priced if it does?
Click to expand...


Here's a good link to the some of the different lighting methods Gailey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_field_microscopy

I use several different types of microscopes and I don't think that you'll really find a biological microscope too useful for gemology. The magnification is typically too high, there's not much room under the objectives, the lighting is transmitted, brightfield, and you want darkfield and on and on. Unless you are going to be working under a microscope on a daily basis, or have a huge bag of money to spend on one, I would suggest getting a cheap, used, name brand binocular microscope on E-Bay and calling it good. I use several old Bausch & Lomb Stereozoom's which cost under $300 and have worked as well as a new one for me. There are even some scopes on E-Bay right now that will probably go for under well under $100. It's kind of funny, my favorite scope under which I set melee cost me about $100 and I've used it daily for over 10 years. I'm not sure if it's the scope or just me, but after a few hours of using it I look like this. Maybe I ought to use one of the better scopes more often ?

Brad Pitt.jpg
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

Michael...got a chuckle out of that photo! I feel the same way sometimes just from sitting in front of a computer all day.

Thanks, I saved that on my ebay watch list for when I'm ready for a microscope.

Laura
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

lelser said:
Gailey said:
Thanks Kenny

Today all I managed (not very well), was to unpack the new microscope, bolt on the binocular eyepiece, install the condenser and 3 objective lenses (4X, 10X, 40X). Oh and a blue filter that slotted into the iris diaphram.

I had a hell of a job centering and focussing the damn thing so I could see one circle of light with two eyes open at the same time. I was begining to think that my eyes must be in significant different places to the eyes whose lashes I was liberally applying mascara to at 7:30 this morning. Hell they looked level in the mirror. What gives?????

I'm still not sure I've finally got it as we didn't actually look at anything today as the microorganisms were still happily multiplying in a bubbling witches brew to one side.

I did my best to center the condenser but the light image was bouncing around all over the place unless I kept my head completely still. It felt a bit like a cheap pair of birding binoculars I once owned.

I'd like to understand the differences between darkfield and brightfield, as I think that may be an issue with the two different things I want to look at - slides for the compost tea stuff and chunkier gems. Will that mean I will need interchangeable stages for instance? Does such a thing exist? Will it be exorbidantly priced if it does?

I think once I move to Ontario, I will ask my course instructor to help me find one if she understands the concept of looking at gems as well as fungi and bacteria.

You've been great guys, thanks again.

XX
Click to expand...

It gets better with practice! I settle into my scope immediately, but often have a few minutes of awkwardness on someone else's.

For gems, both darkfield and brightfield matter. Brightfield lets you look at surface features, like blemishes, polish, chips... Darkfield comes from underneath the stone and lets you look more closely at inclusions. 80% of my time is spent in darkfield.

A fibre optic light is tricky to use at first (hand placement of the flex tube means it's up to you to get it right :-) but gives much more control over where you place the light so if you're doing gem ID and have a tricky inclusion, you can get it illuminated just right.

The sky is the limit on what you can spend. The best thing to do is to talk with your local gemmos as well as you teacher, decide on the features you need and what you can live without, and then see what fits the needs. For me, separate head and stages didn't matter. Neither did tilt. The Kruess ran me under 2k USD which left me plenty left over for other equipment.

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com
Click to expand...


Thanks Lisa,

My teacher did not think that the two styles of microscopes were interchangeable or compatible. But of course she knows nothing about gem microscopes. Assessing microbiology of soils, compost and compost tea is what I "need" to do. Looking at gems is what I would "like" to be able to do as well. Regrettably, I am not able to talk competently about either, so what I need to do is go visit Ye Olde Microscope shoppe and look at them in person, if such a thing still exists in the world and day of the internet.
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

Michael_E said:
Gailey said:
I'd like to understand the differences between darkfield and brightfield, as I think that may be an issue with the two different things I want to look at - slides for the compost tea stuff and chunkier gems. Will that mean I will need interchangeable stages for instance? Does such a thing exist? Will it be exorbidantly priced if it does?
Click to expand...


Here's a good link to the some of the different lighting methods Gailey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_field_microscopy

I use several different types of microscopes and I don't think that you'll really find a biological microscope too useful for gemology. The magnification is typically too high, there's not much room under the objectives, the lighting is transmitted, brightfield, and you want darkfield and on and on. Unless you are going to be working under a microscope on a daily basis, or have a huge bag of money to spend on one, I would suggest getting a cheap, used, name brand binocular microscope on E-Bay and calling it good. I use several old Bausch & Lomb Stereozoom's which cost under $300 and have worked as well as a new one for me. There are even some scopes on E-Bay right now that will probably go for under well under $100. It's kind of funny, my favorite scope under which I set melee cost me about $100 and I've used it daily for over 10 years. I'm not sure if it's the scope or just me, but after a few hours of using it I look like this. Maybe I ought to use one of the better scopes more often ?
Click to expand...

Yes Michael, I fear you may be correct. Thanks for the link, it's certainly interesting to read up about microscopes. Knowledge is always power. You are correct about there not being much room under the objectives. I wonder if there is a model out there that has a stage that has a greater range of vertical movement?

As for the photo, that's more or less what I looked like by 4:00 on Friday afternoon! Boss eyed and extremely nauseous. Headache then ensued. But oh boy, was it interesting to see what was lurking in my vermicompost!
 
Re: I need to buy a microscope, do you have one? Advice ple

I have access to an older stereoscope that my husband used in college, but I need to buy a "dark field condenser" (I guess that's what I need) because it doesn't have one..... any opinions or suggestions?

I'm trying not to put out too much money right now, as I am just at the beginning learning stage.

how about this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/DARKFIELD-CONDENSER ... 2ea221192c
 
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